Talk:Q33129158
Autodescription — member of the Riigikogu (Q33129158)
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- Report on constraint conformation of “member of the Riigikogu” claims and statements. Constraints report for items data
- Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)
- member of the Riigikogu (Q21100241)
- member of parliament (Q486839)
- legislator (Q4175034)
- politician (Q82955)
- legislators and senior officials (Q108289363)
- member (Q9200127)
- legislator (Q4175034)
- member of parliament (Q486839)
- member of the Riigikogu (Q21100241)
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member of the Riigikogu⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1) - Generic queries for classes
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This section is generated using {{Generic queries for positions}}
- List of people holding the position, sorted by starting date (query)
- List of people and their ID's on other systems (query)
- Number of people having hold this position by gender (query) – List of people having hold this position with gender (query)
- Number of people having hold the position by country of citizenship (query) – List of people having hold the position by country of citizenship (query)
- People having hold the function by length of term (query)
- List of people having hold the position by total duration in the position (query)
- List of people having hold the position by gender at the starting date (query)
- List of people holding the function with employer as qualifier (query)
- List of people having hold the position as qualifier of employer (P108) (query)
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- This documentation is generated using
{{Item documentation}}.
For member list, see Wikidata:WikiProject every politician/Estonia/data/Q217799/13th Riigikogu
unreferenced statements edit
I deleted two statements, as, despite the lack of references being evident for months, this hadn't be repaired.
Do not re-add these statements unless they include reliable references formatted as described on Help:Sources. --- Jura 12:00, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- I have restored them as they are clearly correct. I am not sure references are strictly needed for something structural like this, but I have cited them to this page, which clearly indicates that the parliament makes use of these numbered divisions.
- I appreciate you do not like this data model, and you have tried to delete these items before, but it is widely used and accepted - the deletion request was clearly denied. Removing key structural properties without discussion is very disruptive, breaking queries and reports for third-party users, and you should not do so without gaining consensus first. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:10, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- You need to provide a reference that confirms that there actually is such a position, no merely that the parliamentary terms are named that way. These are two different concepts.
- It would be very disruptive and detrimental to the overall reliability of the project if paid contributors tell us that there are plenty such references, but then fail to provide them. Here ample time was left to provide them.
- Apparently additional funding was denied due to problematic documentation practices m:Grants_talk:Project/Wikidata_post-election_updating_toolkit#Round_2_2018_decision.
- Do not restore problematic statements as a mere service to some off-wiki request. --- Jura 13:25, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but this is vandalism. You do not own these items, and you should not act as though you do. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:31, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- If you can't provide references for your statements, it seems you think that discussing the contributor who asks you provide them helps your point of view. You and the website you are collaborating with should avoid acting as if they own this item.
- Wikidata is not a place for problematic documentation practices. --- Jura 13:54, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- I provided a reference, which you ignored. I also don't understand what you mean by "problematic documentation practices", or why the funding decision has anything to do with this issue. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The funding decision for the new round reviewed the contribution of the previously paid service and noted problematic documentation practices. This item was part of that service. Please avoid re-adding statements unless they are supported by references. If you think part of the reference you added supports the two statements, please provide a quote for each one. Please refrain from labeling other contributors corrections of your edits as vandalism. --- Jura 14:06, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- This item is part of Wikidata, not owned by a third party - it is part of a data model containing several hundred items. Your edits are damaging Wikidata, not just an external project which reuses our data. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The statements still need references. Can you provide the quotes? --- Jura 14:18, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The parliament uses exactly the terminology used in this item, Jura. https://www.riigikogu.ee/tutvustus-ja-ajalugu/riigikogu-ajalugu/xiii-riigikogu-koosseis/ talks of the 13th Riigikogu. Members of that can quite justifably be refered to Member of the 13th Riigikogu and coded as a subclass of member of the Estonian Riigikogu. As noted above, this structure for the description of parliamentatian positions is widespread and widely accepted across Wikidata. Your objection is noted, but it does not override that wide consensus. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The request here is about specific statements on the item to be referenced. It's not about the deletion of the item itself nor its use. As the deletion debates suggested that there are plenty of references for such a statement, it's important to add these in the forms described at Help:Sources to Wikidata. Bear in mind that a casual translation might not match the underlying concept. --- Jura 18:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The parliament uses exactly the terminology used in this item, Jura. https://www.riigikogu.ee/tutvustus-ja-ajalugu/riigikogu-ajalugu/xiii-riigikogu-koosseis/ talks of the 13th Riigikogu. Members of that can quite justifably be refered to Member of the 13th Riigikogu and coded as a subclass of member of the Estonian Riigikogu. As noted above, this structure for the description of parliamentatian positions is widespread and widely accepted across Wikidata. Your objection is noted, but it does not override that wide consensus. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The statements still need references. Can you provide the quotes? --- Jura 14:18, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- This item is part of Wikidata, not owned by a third party - it is part of a data model containing several hundred items. Your edits are damaging Wikidata, not just an external project which reuses our data. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- The funding decision for the new round reviewed the contribution of the previously paid service and noted problematic documentation practices. This item was part of that service. Please avoid re-adding statements unless they are supported by references. If you think part of the reference you added supports the two statements, please provide a quote for each one. Please refrain from labeling other contributors corrections of your edits as vandalism. --- Jura 14:06, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- I provided a reference, which you ignored. I also don't understand what you mean by "problematic documentation practices", or why the funding decision has anything to do with this issue. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but this is vandalism. You do not own these items, and you should not act as though you do. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:31, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
WD:AN edit
Note: the level of referencing in this item has been raised as an issue at WD:AN (diff). Conduct by User:Jura1 has also been raised. Jheald (talk) 16:54, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
Follow-up edit
Mentions of "13th Riigikogu" ("XIII Riigikogu") at riigikogu.ee are referenced above, but it appears that one making the reference doesn't understand Estonian or deliberately ignores the context. It explicitly says "XIII Riigikogu koosseis" ("13th composition of the Riigikogu"). This only means that Riigikogu terms are numbered and it's probably fine to use P2937=13th Riigikogu (Q20530392) qualifiers. It doesn't mean anything like new and term-specific position conveyed in this item. Member of the Riigikogu position is defined by several legislative acts such as Status of Members of the Riigikogu Act and it applies regardless of parliamentary term. In legislative acts there is no indication that new position is created when new parliament members are elected and new parliamentary term begins.
In WD:AN topic mentioned above another user also makes an apt comparison (archive link): this item in its current form is pretty much the same as is to say that current US president doesn't hold "President of the United States" position, but instead holds new position "46th President of the United States".
To my knowledge classes on Wikidata should be semantically correct and otherwise reflect reality. This here appears to be an item for a pseudo-class for a non-existent position. I believe it is incorrect and misleading to use it in our data structure, and I urge us to move back to more natural scheme that has member of the Riigikogu (Q21100241) as P39 value. Apparently this works fine for other legislature member classes such as member of the Swedish Riksdag (Q10655178). I don't get why this ad hoc pseudo-class solution has been pushed for Estonian legislature in particular, and it's especially odd it has been done without consulting users who know the language and who are familiar with the subject. 2001:7D0:81FD:BC80:70F1:3C17:1575:6331 12:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- So, this class and classes for four previous terms were phased out over a year ago in batches like this one. I suppose it is no longer needed to keep these misleading pseudo-classes, and they can be merged/deleted now. 2001:7D0:81DB:1480:D004:7518:78BE:4DDF 14:01, 20 April 2024 (UTC)