Topic on User talk:Pasleim

Hello,

I disagree with your PLbot task of moving series ordinal (P1545) from statement to qualifier of instance of (P31). For example, in this edit, no label (Q3402068) is NOT the 1st element of constituency of the French Fifth Republic (Q15620943): it's the 1st element of constituency of the French Fifth Republic (Q15620943) with located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) with the value Guadeloupe (Q17012); and that's why series ordinal (P1545) was used as property, not qualifier. To correct this, you should have to either:

• also put located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) as qualifier of instance of (P31), but I think it denatures the meaning of instance of (P31) (why not to put sex or gender (P21) as qualifier of instance of (P31):human (Q5)?);
• add an exception to the constraint saying that series ordinal (P1545) should only be used as qualifier;
• create another property?

cc @VIGNERON

series ordinal (P1545) indicates the position of an item in a series. If you use this property as a statement it is not clear which series is meant. I think the best way to fix the issue with Guadeloupe (Q17012) is to create a new item for the constituencies in Guadeloupe.

When you have an item named première circonscription de la Guadeloupe, I think it's pretty obvious that the series is constituencies of Guadeloupe and that the property series ordinal (P1545) used as statement is the number in that series.

If you create a new item for each series of constituencies, you would have to create thousands of items (there are about one hundred series of constituencies in France for each legislative term, as they are often reorganized). It would be a tough work to do and to maintain, just to keep a constraint...

I think the best way would be to extend the use of series ordinal (P1545) and allow it as property for some cases, like it has been already done for other properties like P580.

We should not infer an information from labels. Wikidata should be multilingual and machine-readable. You can therefore not assume that everybody understands the label. Or the other way round, if you are saying that we don't need a statement for circonscription de la Guadeloupe because it's already in the label, I can say we don't need series ordinal (P1545) because première is in the label too.

And it's not about keeping just a constraint, it's about providing structured data and labels aren't structured data.

I was giving the example of the label to help humans to understand the data, not to be read by machines. The data was machine-readable (I was using it without parsing the labels...).

With the creation of no label (Q27949556), you separate the series (you have a point), but you still don't know what are the criteria that separate the series: it's not only located in the administrative territorial entity (P131), it can be start time (P580) like in no label (Q23900524) or no label (Q3413548) (not yet added in that last one).

Moreover, in an instance of no label (Q27949556) like no label (Q3402068), you could use series ordinal (P1545) as statement as there is only one series of no label (Q27949556), and so you would know what the statement would apply to. Like the statement sex or gender (P21) applies to an instance of (P31) of human (Q5): it's a property of the item, not what defines its nature.