User talk:Jaredzimmerman (WMF)/Archive 1

Hello and welcome to my talk page

Notability

Tobias1984 (talk) 11:53, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
I am not convinced that you reviewed Wikidata:Notability for many of your recent item creations. e.g. Q15145733. If you can't add any kind of sources the item will need to be deleted.

Tobias1984 (talk) 12:05, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

If you would add sources to your edits you would also notice that you misspelled this name Marc Mezvinsky (Q15142858) (corrected now).

Jaredzimmerman (WMF) (talk) 18:12, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi, @Tobias1984 while I appreciate your “welcome” to the project the item about me was mostly a test, since it doesn't seem possible to create userspace items (sandbox) there isn't really a great way to test out the features and processes of wikidata in an environment where you aren't interacting with the public data set. I'm concerned about the negative confrontational attitude of deletionism, esp. around notability issues on wikipedia, I'm even more concerned that you are bringing these same attitudes to wikidata. Its a surefire way to make sure that we turn away new users who are acting in good faith. New users that we're likely never to get back. You know what they say about first impressions. I hope that you learn from this interaction a take time to evaluate how your actions, however helpful the the project you may feel they are, in the larger context of how our community (wikimedia) is perceived from outside, esp. toward new members who are interested in contributing.

Jaredzimmerman (WMF) (talk) 18:24, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

@Tobias1984, Also if you could restore Q15145733 it would be much appreciated unless I'm wrong about there being a way to have a userspace item to test with, otherwise i'll have to keep recreating new items to test with, as I'd rather not test on items that other users have created. Thanks!

Tobias1984 (talk) 21:43, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jared! If you are just testing things you can do so at https://test.wikidata.org. Wikidata-proper has sandbox items too. But any inclusion of non-sourcable/non-notable content can not be permitted. And I am well aware that I am very stern in your case, but we (the admins) have to put us and WMF employees under extra scrutiny, so we don't give other users the impression that the rules are not the same for everyone. So please accept my apologies, play around with test.wikidata, and hopefully this admin-decision hasn't soured your opinion of Wikidata as a whole.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Tobias1984, thanks, as I mentioned below "perhaps we should put a link to test.wikidata.org on the homepage, since the project is relatively new and some things don't work like other wikis it might be a useful thing to have for now so that new users (to the project) like myself will know that it is a resource availible to them."

Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 10:46, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

or testing there is also the sandbox item which is linked from the main page.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 15:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Lydia Pintscher (WMDE), very helpful, I guess the issue is that the main page is very busy and a bit overwhelming, little bits of information are easy to miss.

Staff contributions

Ajraddatz (Talk) 19:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello, the account that you are using now is a staff account, but you seem to be using it to make regular contributions. If you are not doing anything work-related, I would suggest that you use a volunteer account instead.

Furthermore, your edits to sex or gender (P21) were not acceptable, as they contradicted previous discussions and the purpose of that property. Please refer to the talk page for further discussion on that, and don't make broad changes to the scope of a property without discussing it first.

Part of the reason that you have experienced such scrutiny over your contributions here is your affiliation with the WMF. From what I see, newbies are generally treated well here, but WMF staff shouldn't be making mistakes like testing in the main space.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 21:07, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Ajraddatz thanks for the suggestion about which account I should be using on the site. While I understand the concept, I find it rather cumbersome to switch between account all the time, especially since SUL is in effect, I can't easily be logged in with my staff account on one wiki while logged in with my personal account on another.

As far as sex or gender (P21) the template at the top clearly says "Please expand list if needed" which I did. the discussion about gender vs. sex is all well and good but gender (identity) and sex are pretty different things. I create the new items based on conversations had at the Wikimedia Diversity conference that occurred over the weekend in Berlin (were you there?) Not all consensus happens on wiki, sometimes it comes from face to face conversations. Either way, if consensus is needed to make a change it seems only fair that it should be needed to revert one, especially on an item which says "Please expand list if needed"

To your point about testing in the main namespace, perhaps we should put a link to test.wikidata.org on the homepage, since the project is relatively new and some things don't work like other wikis it might be a useful thing to have for now so that new users (to the project) like myself will know that it is a resource availible to them.

Ajraddatz (Talk) 22:13, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Expanding the list as needed does not include changing the entire scope of the property. There is a difference between sex and gender - sex being the biological organ present and gender being the subjective experience of existing as a man or a woman. The property is clearly about sex, not gender, so changing it to include elements of gender is changing its scope. Consensus about changes to the scope of a property should happen on the relevant talk page or project chat, not some conference in Berlin or even an unrelated page on-wiki. Finally, you are incorrect that consensus is needed to revert a change - it is the common expectation on wikis that the status quo is to be maintained unless discussion (on-wiki) directs otherwise.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 22:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Ajraddatz, from what you're saying it sound like you agree that gender and sex are different so I'm confused why you reverted my change removing gender as an aka, for sex?

Ajraddatz (Talk) 18:23, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Because sex isn't (correctly) also known as gender. They are completely different terms with different implications in terms of sourcing, and shouldn't be grouped together.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 18:27, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Ok I think we're on the same page, so I removed the gender AKA from sex

Ajraddatz (Talk) 18:32, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I was mistaken - I thought that you had added the gender alias when you removed it. It wasn't me that reverted that change, but either way, my bad.

Please don't add P107

GZWDer (talk) 10:43, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
It is to be deleted. Use P31 with Q4167410 for disambig pages.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 10:52, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

GZWDer, thanks very weird, I didn't make the edit (manually) but I see it in the history, perhaps a gadget I have it misbehaving. Thanks for letting me know, I'll see if i can figure out what is going on.

Merging

Tobias1984 (talk) 12:06, 19 November 2013 (UTC) This: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Q1269448&oldid=87589881 - is not a good way of merging items. Please review Help:Merging which includes a tutorial for correct mergers. Don't forget to list the empty item for deletion. Thanks!

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 12:14, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Tobias1984 this might have been prior to me getting the merge gadget to work without errors, when you use the merge tool is the duplicate not deleted or marked for deletion as part of the process?

Tobias1984 (talk) 12:22, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

The second bullet point list the empty item at WD:RFD. Merging into the lowest Q-ID is also good idea, to preserve the longer edit history. I went through your recent history and deleted the unneeded items. So everything is running smooth now ;)

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 12:30, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Tobias1984, Thank you.

sf mission

Texugo (talk) 13:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi there. I believe what I was trying to do was to remove voy:en:Mission from Q7469 so I could add it to Q224783, because voy:en:Mission is a disambiguation page, not the page corresponding to the SF Mission district. Also, there is not a one-to-one correspondence in coverage of these districts: the voy:en page which covers the SF Mission district is combined with coverage of Bernal Heights, and that article is currently connected to that data item at Q3343204. voy:en:San Francisco/Mission District is only a redirect.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 01:23, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Texugo, I see you're not from the area, but having Mission and Bernal combined into one article is rather odd, as they are very distinct neighborhoods. If there are no plans to split the voyage article it should probably point to mission, not bernal in wikidata.

Gender of Mario Kaneda (Q3293468)

Allen4names (talk) 06:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
The sources indicating Kaneda's gender are in conflict (See Talk:Q3293468). Either provide additional source(s) to resolve this or change the value to 'unknown'.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 08:44, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Both French and Japanese wikipedia refer to the illustrator as "she" I didn't see anything to show otherwise.

Re: Spanish Translation for Q15145783 & Q15145782

I tweaked the translations a bit, thanks. —Fitoschido (talk) 07:59, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Fitoschido, looks better, its difficult due to the pronouns given a gendered language.

Jared Zimmerman (talk) 08:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism cleanup

Hi Jared. I frequently saw you cleaning up after items being vandalized (sex changed) recently. That's great. However, you don't seem to have a look in the history of the articles you edit in this field. E.g. in Q87562, you changed the sex, then the en label and the en description among other things. All those three had been changed by the same user before. But he made a fourth change, that you didn't revert, as you couldn't see it from the item page itself (it was a property removal). With a look in the history, you most likely would have seen that without much effort to investigate much into the development of the item and valid values for what you saw n the item page yourself. With a bit more effort, you could also have seen that the user created some junk items and talk pages. Of course you're not required to check all this, but as said, I think not only the global vandal fighting but also your task of cleaning up would have been easier with a quick look in the history. Maybe you want to do that in the future. That said, have a nice day. --YMS (talk) 08:25, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Curious about a claim deletion ?

Hi, what's wrong with this claim ? is this a question of gender of fictional characters ? Because there is no real problem in how Victor Hugo describe the character in his novels. TomT0m (talk) 13:49, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I was curious too about the change of some claims also. Also curious if those are WMF edits or personal edits, if personal I suggest using a personal account so non-WMF folks don't get confused :) Thanks. SarahStierch (talk) 15:32, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

SarahStierch & TomT0m Hi there, when assigning a value to sex or gender (P21) for humans (or fictional humans) please use male (Q6581097), female (Q6581072), intersex (Q1097630), transgender female (Q1052281), transgender male (Q15145783), genderqueer (Q48270), Fa'afafine (Q1399232), Māhū (Q3277905), Kathoey (Q746411), Fakaleiti (Q350374), Hijra (Q660882) — male animal (Q44148), female animal (Q43445) are for animals, non-human entities like mascots, and cartoon characters, etc. There are many things that look like they would be possible values for sex or gender (P21) but actually aren't correct. The wikidata folks are working on a better system for showing recommended values, and alerting users when they use non-recommended values as well. Thanks! Jared Zimmerman (talk) 17:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)