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author name stringEdit

author name string (P2093) is for adding an author's name to a work when there is no data item for the author, or when the author's full name is uncertain. It should never be used on a data item for a person. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:53, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikisource linked components are version, edition, or translation (Q3331189)Edit

... and explained at Wikidata:WikiProject Books.  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@billinghurst: For the images, it might need to have versions of editions. Multiple scans of the same edition.

Then in the technical, sometimes the images from the most perfect scan of the book are impossible at the moment to work with. An example: I have one Frank Baum book with images from two sources.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 04:56, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't typically use images unless there is only a cover image, instead I use scanned file. See something like The Afghan War (Q19077572) is an example of what I do.  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:18, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Each edition is its own version; each edition would have its own WD entry, just as at enWS each edition is reproducible, and we can have multiple editions, though only one version of each edition. The label used to be "edition or translation" and that is the way of WD. <shrug>  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:22, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
I am not talking about using images here, I am talking about how the components of books link together and of using the images on other wiki. I have also seen a lot of variation in the application of the word Plate. Most often it is an image page with very little text and a printing process that is different from the printing of the text. Occasionally, it is a half or third page image which means the same print process as the text.
I have seen the same book scanned twice by two different either scanners or software and eventually uploaded to the same site. So that is physical copy and scanner/camera information.
Also, the scan of the photograph as printed in the book/journal vs. the scan of the actual photograph print which might still exist and perhaps a scan of the negative might exist.
When I have tried to link the index page at wiki source to here, it required a url input that I got bored trying to fashion.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:09, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

A Wikisource-linked copy cannot be both a "book" and a "version". In fact no data item can be both; it is either one or the other. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

You are back doing this again. Wikisource reproductions of literary works are editions. If it appears in a journal from independent authors, and can be republished, then it is an edition. It could be considered an article too, though that would need to be qualified, of what it is an article. Please would you be able to go back and resolve those recent additions.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:37, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
Many of the version I made were collapsed, usually starting at wikisource and then being reflected here. Granted, these were versions of poems and not books. Attempts to stop this from happening at wikisource were prevented by you. The quote was something like "there is a mechanism for resolving redirects".
@billinghurst: I have been assuming that the Scribner's stuff that is in the Main (at source) will be "folded" into the journals when they (the journals) are started. Other "not attatched to a scan" works have been, see the Fairy Books, for instance. Maybe my bad assumption is a good recommendation?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:19, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
I am not understanding what you are saying. I don't believe anything that I have said here is contradictory to anything that I have said at Wikisource. Reproduced literary works at Wikisource are editions, simply as they can/are liable to be reproduced, and that makes editions. If we have multiple versions, we would create a versions page that would link to the work item. Whether they are subsidiary to a rootpage, at WS or not, does not matter to WD, it adapts and does not change the fact that they are editions. Plug the data in correctly and WD will do what it needs.

Redirects are irrelevant to this conversation. Typically any redirect at a sister would not appear as a WD item.  — billinghurst sDrewth 13:35, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

@billinghurst: When I made a versions page, at source, which was then deleted and turned into a redirect at source to the only instance at source (an action I understand and no longer angry about), that redirect folded things here so that the version page I made for the poem is now the link in the non-version wikidata item.
I don't want to keep doing this. I suspect this is not your goal either.
Moving the shorts into the journal main is simply the best solution, and most elegant, and most tidy, and coolest (to have first editions where they are first), and encyclopedic (to have source be a authority by example for first edition). Please ask Xover of his scan matching abilities.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
Clearly I am doing rubbish job at getting you to focus on my point ... When a transcluded Wikisource edition of a literary work is itemised/recorded here, it is an version, edition, or translation (Q3331189) it is that simple. Please do not change them to be a literary work (Q7725634) that is wrong per Wikidata:WikiProject Books. I used a contextual heading, with a link provided that points you to what I am discussing.

Anything that is happening on WS should be discussed there, not here. I don't work that way. Whatever else you are discussing has no context to what I am addressing and is both confusing and polluting what I am trying to get you to do here.  — billinghurst sDrewth 03:42, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Clearly you are not grasping the actuality of when you convert versions to redirects at source, you are causing this battle (of which I was on your side here and there) to be lost here. You might be just responding poorly to me losing directly and with dignity. Are you doing that?
What is the problem with moving those articles, at source, which are credited to the journal, into the journal space? Don't worry about acknowledging the research, responding positively by putting them in the right place was the goal.
Perhaps you know of the inevitable collapse of versions into works and are just taking delight in my angst? Moving the articles is the cool and elegant solution.
btw, all I did yesterday is use article and deprecate (I am still not fond of that word) version. And, were you about during my lamentations about making it to the en.pedia Moon before en.source did?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:14, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Tom Brown's School DaysEdit

This can't have entered public domain in the US in 1923. It was still under copyright when it was published in 1911. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:17, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I thought that everything that was published before 1923 became Public Domain in the '70s.
It does, but that's not the date that it entered public domain. The 1923 date it a cutoff for the current US laws, and that date will change this January. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Also, the UK copyright law is 80+YAD, not 100 years. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:17, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

The copyright police at the commons told me 100 years and also knew where to find if that book was allowed anyways--and, I should have found that source of information, it seems. So, sorry and thanks.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: what then is the link back for "based on"?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:45, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

There isn't one, and deliberately so. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Also, when putting a publication date on an edition, only the earliest date for that edition is used, not the dates of later printings. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Seems to me, that if there is only one date allowed, it should be the last date then because that would be the one that is relevant to the copyright laws in the United States. But the last date is boring, however relevant it is while the first date is not so boring. I only put a date on if there is a page that has printed the copyright. I think that one should be re-thought.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 04:54, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Retellings and derivative worksEdit

When you have a retelling of a novel or play, the new work is not an "edition" of the original, but a derivative work (P4969). I've corrected this for the retelling of the Two Kinsmen. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: One of the things I like about edition is that it requires a link back. I miss that for derivative works.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:34, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
Use based on (P144) for that. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:37, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
Requires a link back. The little flag that goes away when "the derivative" gets a "based on" like "is edition" and "has edition" do. (I know "based on").--RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Follow the instruction or don't botherEdit

Wikisource produced editions, not books, so this is just wrong. Stop it, follow the guidance at Wikidata:Books, or I am happy to escalate this.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:26, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

I have merged second version that you were doing as it doesn't work that way. The WS version is edition was there and was always the edition. If you want the book item, then create the book item, but you cannot change what has existed for years as it doesn't suit you.  — billinghurst sDrewth 05:24, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Make your WD input easierEdit

If you enable the WE-Framework gadget at enWS you can very easily add data for editions, and easily create an item all in the same framework. It takes out 90% of the shit that doing items over here holds. It isn't perfect but does for most of one's needs.  — billinghurst sDrewth 12:33, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Aladin and Ali BabbaEdit

@Hsarrazin: When you make the data for Aladin and Ali Babba, please log them here so that I can see the proper way that you are promoting here. Please, in the future, consider not just removing links but putting them in proper place.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:27, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


We have had this discussion before, please do not start creating two layers of editions. Our versions directly link to the literary work, they do not link to an intermediary edition. This is explained at Wikidata:Books. You cannot have an edition of an edition, that is not the model implemented here. If you think that the model is wrong, then go and have the argument, otherwise stop mucking up the system and just making more work for other people. Please and thanks.  — billinghurst sDrewth 13:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)