Vis M

Welcome to Wikidata, Vanischenu!

Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike and you can go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!

Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familiarize yourself with:

• Introduction – An introduction to the project.
• Wikidata tours – Interactive tutorials to show you how Wikidata works.
• Community portal – The portal for community members.
• User options – including the 'Babel' extension, to set your language preferences.
• Contents – The main help page for editing and using the site.
• Project chat – Discussions about the project.
• Tools – A collection of user-developed tools to allow for easier completion of some tasks.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask on Project chat. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Best regards!

Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Vis M/Archive 1 on 2021-09-14.

Regarding some of your last edits, I can't agree with the following ones:

1. : polymer is a mixture of macromolecules, P279 statement was correct (IUPAC Goldbook does not contradict it; especially as our 'mixture' is a subclass of 'chemical substance').
2. : this edit is not correct. 'plastic', 'polymer' and 'macromolecule' are terms that are often confused with each other. Polymer is a mixture of macromolecules, plastic is a material made of polymer.

@Wostr: Well, I disagree with #1. While your classification and terminology may be true in some fields, it does not hold true in more general cases.

A polymer need not be mixture of macromolecules. Crosslinked polymers are still polymers. Thermosetting polymers are also polymers. They are not a mixture (Q169336) as the chains are not physically combined together, but with chemical bonds. That's why I put the broader classification of chemical substance (Q79529)

Polymers are macromolecules, need not be a mixture. IUPAC's dedicated book for polymer terminology https://iupac.org/what-we-do/books/purplebook/ often treats both terms synonymously.

Also, both of my undegraduate and postgraduate degrees are in polymer technology and am currently teaching the same for polytechnic, so my edits were not out of some layman's confusion. Not using it as a leverage of any kind in Wikidata, but to remove any confusion here of my knowledge in subject.

Situations in which polymers = macromolecules (or in which a polymer is indeed a single macromolecule, a covalent network; the question remain here where is the boundary between a polymer and a polymer/plastic material) are IMO a small fraction of cases in WD.

As a side note of this discussion, we were always told that in English terms in polymer science are sometimes not used in its strict meaning, while in German and in Polish (my native language) we were told to strictly use terms like macromolecule, polymer, resin and plastic. Maybe it's also a bit caused by language differences: in Polish/German 'plastic' is a linguistic calque from English and is used only colloquially, terms like 'tworzywo sztuczne' i 'Kunststoff' are used here which means something like 'artificial material' or 'polymer material'.

My objections in this area mainly concern a few things:

1. in WD, these kinds of changes apply to the entire data model in a certain area. Changing 'mixture' to 'chemical substance' changes little in the WD model itself, but it makes us move away from other ontologies (such as ChEBI which defines 'polymer' as a 'mixture of macromolecules'). These differences must be justified in a certain way, because then the terms from both ontologies cannot be used interchangeably. Also, we can't have two different definitions described in one item, if there are some differences in the sources, a specific definition must be adopted in the WD ontology.
2. the field of polymer science in WD is neglected; starting from the simplest cases (like polietylen (Q143429)), we have only problems from the beginning, where several things are described in one item. It is not known whether item describes 'macromolecule', 'group of macromolecules', 'mixture of macromolecules' ('polymer') or 'plastic'. All four concepts are valid to be items in WD, but cannot be mixed in one item (just as we have different items for e.g. nikotyna (Q12144), rac-nikotyna (Q56697247), (−)-nikotyna (Q28086552) and (+)-nikotyna (Q27119762), for PE we should probably have at least two different items for 'mixture of macromolecules' and for a 'plastic').
3. recently, doing a lot of cleaning in terms of the chemical compounds themselves, I began to move polymers beyond the sphere of molecular entities and began to move them to mixtures (rodzaj polimeru (Q119896085) metaclass). This works for most of the most common cases, as can be seen from this discussion, it won't work for all.
4. Your knowledge can be invaluable in this case, because there are not many people willing to systematize certain areas in WD. However, for this, it would be necessary to write how data model for polymers should work, how to define and describe particular concepts etc.

Ok. But please note that the current subclass statement is true for thermoset, crosslinked polymer and vulcanized rubber. Best wishes.

Hi Vis M,

Do you think you could make sure to double check the part of speech and/or gender for the Hindustani lexemes you have been adding? It is quite often the case that a Hindustani word will be a different part of speech than the word it is derived from, and having the gender if it is a noun is necessary to add all the forms. I have found McGregor's dictionary to be the most accurate source for gender and part of speech which is easily accessible: https://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/mcgregor/

I also want to point out that it's actually rather rare that a Hindi tatsama word has the same meaning as the Sanskrit word it resembles, so the senses on the Sanskrit word should be double checked too. For example on स्मारक (L1110795), there is no Sanskrit noun स्मारक which means memorial. According to Apte's dictionary, this is an adjective which meant 'reminding.' The Hindi word स्मारक is a noun that means memorial because it is a prescribed replacement for the more common Persian-origin word यादगार, which is a noun and which means memorial in Persian. For this reason it is semantically still derived from Persian, not Sanskrit.

Ok, will do. I will make sure to add gender when adding Hindustani lexemes.

I was checking with Wikt:sa:स्मारक#Apte while creating the entry, which has "A memorial (a modern use)" as gloss for स्मारकम्

I appreciate it. I have to admit I am somewhat confused what it means for a modern sense to exist for Sanskrit. Would that not just mean that this is a sense for the word in Hindi?

Marathi, Malayalam and Kannada all use the word 'Smaraka' for Memorial, if it matters.

Also, I wonder why you have changed the lexical category for the word "चतुर्भुज": https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Lexeme:L1109098&diff=prev&oldid=1889760002 . "चतुर्भुज" is the spelling for both the noun and the adjective in Hindi. It's the case for many lexemes in Hindi. A separate entry for adjective should have been created.

The memorial sense probably originates in Marathi then, since most tatsama vocabulary in Hindi was borrowed in directly from Marathi or Bengali

The Urdu Lughat entry linked to it said it was an adjective (صف) and it didn't have a gender so I assumed that's what it was intended to be

Any adjective in Hindustani can be used as a noun—but it needs a gender to have its own noun lexeme, and I didn't see any noun entry in Urdu Lughat

Chaukor would be the more common Hindi word for quadrilateral (chaturbhuj would only be known by those with an education in English) and it is only used as an adjective http://udb.gov.pk/result_details.php?word=93001

Ok. Cheers.

I will remember to mark the gender next time.

Dear all,

The International Mother Language Day 2023 Datathon is going on till 28 February. We have only 2 days in our hands to contribute and here is the link of the event page. You can add/edit labels, descriptions, Aliases, items or properties and references to the statements.

To track the activities visit outreach dashboard.

You can contact us at program@cis-india.org. Happy editing

please see Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions#Lexeme:L580079

Hello, an item that you have edited (and you are the only non-bot editor) is considered empty and will be deleted in 72 hours if it doesn't improve. Your automated cleaner.