Wikidata:Property proposal/Total goals in career
Total goals in career edit
Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sports
| Description | goalscoring statistic |
|---|---|
| Represents | goal (Q18530) |
| Data type | Quantity |
| Domain | items |
| Allowed values | [\d+] |
| Allowed units | numbers |
| Example 1 | Wayne Gretzky (Q209518) → 894
|
| Example 2 | Sergei Mozyakin (Q970861) → 323
|
| Example 3 | Connor McDavid (Q2806736) → 116
|
| Example 4 | Colin Doyle (Q5145053) → 588
|
| Example 5 | Lionel Messi (Q615) → 402
|
| Source | https://www.hockey-reference.com/ |
| Planned use | to upload statistics for retired NHL players |
| Number of IDs in source | 6218 |
| Expected completeness | always incomplete (Q21873886), career statistics for retired players may be added, but there will always be new players retiring with static career statistics to add |
| Robot and gadget jobs | I will import these statistics through OpenRefine's Wikidata interface |
| See also | number of points/goals/set scored (P1351) |
Motivation edit
I'd like to add properties for individual hockey statistics. These statistics are the very measurement of a player's career and could be incredibly useful for ordering, sorting, and classifying players in SPARQL queries. I'm always amazed when the commentators pull out these wild statistics in the middle of a game such as "He was one of three right-handed shooters born in London, Ontario to achieve over 100 assists and 100 goals with at least 200 games in his career." With stats like this uploaded to Wikidata, we can do the same with SPARQL! This data is freely available online but not, anywhere I've found, in any structured data format that would allow for complex queries.
Potential qualifiers can include the league in which these statistic were achieved (since players may play in many different divisions or leagues throughout their career), and the dates between which the statistic was recorded (i.e. dates for the players time in a league).
I am prepared to upload stats for every retired player the NHL (I've got everything cued up in a spreadsheet), but I can imagine similar properties would be useful for other team sports too. In fact, I was surprised not to see these already available in Wikidata.
NOTE: I didn't want to spam the property proposals page with a number of proposals very similar to this one, so I'm not sure what the most appropriate action is here but in addition to goals, proposed above, I'd also like to propose career games played, assists, points, plus-minus, penalty minutes, power-play goals, power-play points, and shots. These are all standard, basic statistics for ice hockey and good measures for a player's performance. Any advice re: multiple property proposals is appreciated. Thanks!
Discussion edit
Comment I will support this idea only on the condition that of (P642) is required for each value (and point in time (P585) for active players). So please create examples for different leagues of National Hockey League (Q1215892), World Hockey Association (Q527513), NCAA Division I Men's Ice Hockey Tournament (Q16969895), American Hockey League (Q464995), ice hockey at the Olympic Games (Q114581), National League (Q688866), Champions Hockey League (Q15388803) and even Stanley Cup (Q211872). Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:53, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ Thank you for your response. This is what I had in mind, attaching each statistic to the league in which it was achieved. That's a good solution for active players that I hadn't thought of, but perhaps instead of point in time (P585), start time (P580) might be more appropriate? The goals would be scored since one particular date, but would not all happen at one particular point in time. I've edited my examples to show leagues for each property with of (P642). Example two shows start time (P580) for an active player and example three shows point in time (P585) for an active player, the former being my preference. LesserJerome (talk) 16:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
- I don’t understand why for Mozyakin and McDavid chose different ways of representing. All athletes, and I am sure that the property should be accessible for representatives of other sports (football, handball, etc.), should ideally have point in time (P585) and start time (P580). It is desirable that end time (P582) should always be specified, since the update date will not always coincide with it. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 06:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ I was just trying to illustrate two possible ways of representing the time element, either point in time (P585) and start time (P580). I've changed the proposal so that both have start times. I don't think end time (P582) should be required of all players, as "end time" sounds like their career is over and they are finished accumulating goals, when the reality is that they are in the middle of their careers and will in all likelihood score more goals. As a solution, I have added a retrieved (P813) statement for the currently active players so we know at what point the statistic was retrieved, and the goals statistic represents goals scored in the time frame from start time (P580) to retrieved (P813).
- You have set wrong start time (P580) for Connor McDavid (Q2806736). Can I add some examples from another sports to the list? I also propose to change the description to a more general ("ice hockey statistic" → "goalscoring statistic"; goal (Q1317522) → goal (Q18530)). Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 13:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ Thanks for the heads up about McDavid, I don't know how I got that one wrong. Yes, please do add other sports - I think this, along with other statistical properties, would be transferable across many sports. Certain statistics may have different meanings in different sports (i.e. in hockey, a "point" is either a goal or an assist, and a "point" may mean something different in other sports), but we'll know the meaning of the property relative to the league it was achieved in (i.e. we'll know what kind of "point" it is because it happened in the NHL). Do you have any comments for other statistical properties I suggested above (games played, assists, points, plus-minus, penalty minutes, power-play goals, power-play points, and shots)? Some of those are hockey specific (penalty minutes, power-play goals), but some of those will be transferable to other sports (games played, assists, shots).LesserJerome (talk) 16:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- I think we can propose new properties after tests with goals. Still, I think we should find a qualifier to indicate the date of the most recent goal of an active player. The same commentators say sometimes that the player has not scored as much as 11 months and 1 day… Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:39, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ Oh I see, I think I was misunderstanding you. I agree that such a qualifier could be useful, but should not be required. Maybe point in time (P585) is the best option here. So active players would have start time (P580), point in time (P585) to represent the most recent change in statistic (i.e. last goal), and when the player retires end time (P582) gets added. point in time (P585) might be a little ambiguous in its wording though--I'm not sure that it would be obvious to someone looking at this information what "point in time" would mean with reference to a goal.LesserJerome (talk) 16:07, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe a new time-related property needed? "date of most recent value change"… Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 18:31, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ I could certainly see the use for a new property to qualify this data, but all the same, I don't think it is strictly necessary -- not to the point that we shouldn't create a goals property unless this qualifier is also in place. The date of the last goal is good information to have, but the proposed property for total number of goals is functional without it. Do you think this new date qualifier could be proposed after/if this one goes through? LesserJerome (talk) 19:46, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, we can start to use new property without "date of most recent value change".Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 22:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ Thanks for the heads up about McDavid, I don't know how I got that one wrong. Yes, please do add other sports - I think this, along with other statistical properties, would be transferable across many sports. Certain statistics may have different meanings in different sports (i.e. in hockey, a "point" is either a goal or an assist, and a "point" may mean something different in other sports), but we'll know the meaning of the property relative to the league it was achieved in (i.e. we'll know what kind of "point" it is because it happened in the NHL). Do you have any comments for other statistical properties I suggested above (games played, assists, points, plus-minus, penalty minutes, power-play goals, power-play points, and shots)? Some of those are hockey specific (penalty minutes, power-play goals), but some of those will be transferable to other sports (games played, assists, shots).LesserJerome (talk) 16:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- You have set wrong start time (P580) for Connor McDavid (Q2806736). Can I add some examples from another sports to the list? I also propose to change the description to a more general ("ice hockey statistic" → "goalscoring statistic"; goal (Q1317522) → goal (Q18530)). Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 13:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ I was just trying to illustrate two possible ways of representing the time element, either point in time (P585) and start time (P580). I've changed the proposal so that both have start times. I don't think end time (P582) should be required of all players, as "end time" sounds like their career is over and they are finished accumulating goals, when the reality is that they are in the middle of their careers and will in all likelihood score more goals. As a solution, I have added a retrieved (P813) statement for the currently active players so we know at what point the statistic was retrieved, and the goals statistic represents goals scored in the time frame from start time (P580) to retrieved (P813).
- I don’t understand why for Mozyakin and McDavid chose different ways of representing. All athletes, and I am sure that the property should be accessible for representatives of other sports (football, handball, etc.), should ideally have point in time (P585) and start time (P580). It is desirable that end time (P582) should always be specified, since the update date will not always coincide with it. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 06:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
Support David (talk) 08:29, 1 February 2019 (UTC)- Support Terms of use were discussed. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 22:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Сидик из ПТУ Awesome, thanks for you support and your helpful comments.LesserJerome (talk) 00:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Сидик из ПТУ, LesserJerome: 
Done: total goals in career (P6509). − Pintoch (talk) 08:42, 16 February 2019 (UTC)