Wikidata:Property proposal/UEFA ranking

UEFA ranking

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sports

Not done

Description	The annual UEFA ranking of each national team, country (association) and team.
Represents	UEFA coefficient (Q491781) and UEFA coefficient (women) (Q2981732)
Data type	Number (not available yet)
Domain	National teams and non-national in association football and football associations
Example	⟨ Royal Spanish Football Federation (Q207615)    ⟩ UEFA ranking Search ⟨ 1 ⟩ point in time (P585) ⟨ 2017 ⟩ points for (P1358) ⟨ 89.212 ⟩ ⟨ Real Madrid CF (Q8682)    ⟩ UEFA ranking Search ⟨ 1 ⟩ point in time (P585) ⟨ 2017 ⟩ points for (P1358) ⟨ 134.000 ⟩ ⟨ Germany national association football team (Q43310)    ⟩ UEFA ranking Search ⟨ 1 ⟩ point in time (P585) ⟨ 2017 ⟩ points for (P1358) ⟨ 40,236 ⟩
Source	http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/index.html (and other pages like https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2018.html)
Planned use	Add the rankings and coefficients since 1960. (UEFA started publishing ranking since 1979 but for statistical purposes, various rankings were introduced to portray the history of competitions).
See also	P2656 (P2656)

Motivation

I believe UEFA rankings and coefficients must be on every team on the list. The idea is to have the ranking of the team and the points (Coefficient) the teams have. For country and club there is a final ranking every year and for national teams every 2 years. A problem is the country ranking. These rankings are for the countries member of UEFA. The football associations. But, nowadays there are male and female ranking. The association items are the same for both cases. We need a way to show that in the items. Xaris333 (talk) 11:39, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football, @Frisko:

I have just added this to Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:33, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose @Xaris333: Many things (teams, sportsmen, films, actors, smart phones) are ranked by many agencies. I don't think we want specific props per agency and kind of ranking! Why can't you use ranking (P1352) with an extra qualifier to indicate the agency, eg "issuer"? Your examples already use lots of qualifiers (thanks!) so it should be easy to fit one more. I also think P2656 (P2656) should be removed in favor of this generic approach --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 09:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @Vladimir Alexiev: Please give me an example how to use it. You can change my example
  ⟨ Royal Spanish Football Federation (Q207615)    ⟩ UEFA ranking Search ⟨ 1 ⟩
  point in time (P585) ⟨ 2017 ⟩
  points for (P1358) ⟨ 89.212 ⟩
  . And please consider that the ranking must link to someway to UEFA coefficient (Q491781). I just want to know how your suggestion can work. Xaris333 (talk) 19:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaris333: How about this:

 Royal Spanish Football Federation (Q207615)
   ranking (P1352) - 1
   review score by (P447)- UEFA (Q35572)
   point in time (P585) - 2017
   points for (P1358) - 89.212

The second question you ask could be modeled by adding to "points for" also "unit - UEFA coefficient". But I think that's redundant with "score by - UEFA", and unfortunately points for (P1358) says it's "quantity property without units" (I think this restriction should be relaxed). In any case, we can record this general statement:

 UEFA coefficient (Q491781)
   score by (or creator, or publisher) - UEFA (Q35572)

--Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 08:13, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev: ~~I haven't understood the last one. How you use UEFA coefficient (Q491781)? Use the above example please.~~ Xaris333 (talk) 13:40, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev: adding to "points for" also "unit - UEFA coefficient" is not useful. We need another way. And what about the female ranking? Xaris333 (talk) 15:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football

Examples

Country coefficient (men football)

Royal Spanish Football Federation (Q207615)

   ranking (P1352) - 1
   review score by (P447)- UEFA (Q35572)
   point in time (P585) - 2017
   points for (P1358) - 89.212

Country coefficient (women football)

Royal Spanish Football Federation (Q207615)

   ranking (P1352) - 6
   review score by (P447)- UEFA (Q35572)
   point in time (P585) - 2017
   points for (P1358) - 41.000

Real Madrid CF (Q8682)

   ranking (P1352) - 1
   review score by (P447)- UEFA (Q35572)
   point in time (P585) - 2017
   points for (P1358) - 134.00

Germany national association football team (Q43310)

   ranking (P1352) - 1
   review score by (P447)- UEFA (Q35572)
   point in time (P585) - 2017
   points for (P1358) - 40.236

2 problems:

1) A problem is the country ranking. These rankings are for the countries member of UEFA. The football associations. But, nowadays there are male and female ranking. The association items are the same for both cases. We need a way to show that in the items.

2) The second problem is that we need to link to someway to UEFA coefficient (Q491781) or UEFA coefficient (women) (Q2981732) for all cases. Xaris333 (talk) 15:47, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This is independent from the question whether we should include this ranking system: For rankings in general, we might want to move to something like:

<some item: e.g. person> <property: ranking system> <item: whatever ranking system> <qualifier: rank>1
--- Jura 07:36, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jura1: so you are agree with Vladimir Alexiev that we don't need P2656 (P2656) either? I made a delete proposal Wikidata:Properties for deletion#Property:P2656. Xaris333 (talk) 15:48, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily. For frequently used rankings, it can be more convenient to have a separate property. So I don't have much of an opinion on P2656.
--- Jura 18:05, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not done per decision to delete a similar property at Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions/Archive/2017/Properties/1#Property:P2656 − Pintoch (talk) 10:09, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]