Wikidata:Property proposal/number of weeks on the Billboard chart

number of weeks on the Billboard chart edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

Not done

Description	the number of weeks a single was in the en:Billboard Hot 100 (rather than stayed once charting, I suppose) or an album was in the en:Billboard 200.
Data type	String
Example 1	MISSING
Example 2	MISSING
Example 3	MISSING

Motivation edit

(Add your motivation for this property here.) Bossanoven (talk) 12:09, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Oppose as proposed; too specific (should be for all charts) and we already have charted in (P2291). I think a property for "weeks on chart" could be useful since charted in (P2291) is currently supposed to be one statement for each week for each chart; "peaked on chart" could be useful as well. Jc86035 (talk) 15:02, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Jc86035: Your statement seems to imply that users have been using charted in to post complete chart runs on Wikidata. Posting complete chart runs is not really public info. - Bossanoven (talk) 15:13, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Every edition of the Billboard Hot 100 from mid-1958 onward is on the Billboard website (am I misunderstanding you? you seem to imply that this information is not publicly known). Many other main charts are also publicly shown. Same for many other countries' charts. I think it's more of a copyright issue than anything else, so no one's added much data with the existing property yet. However, I think it would be more acceptable to import peak positions for charts (although perhaps not directly), since many of them are already included in English Wikipedia articles.

Regardless of how accessible chart data is, I have to oppose this because if every chart had two properties like the ones you're proposing, there would be more than a hundred for Billboard alone. Jc86035 (talk) 17:28, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jc86035: This latter point, by over a hundred for Billboard, do you mean the concept of posting every week's position on the chart for a single? I just wanted to post the peak position, and then, as a separate field, the actual figure for time spent on the charts. Perhaps we need an example to make things clear. - Bossanoven (talk) 13:16, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Bossanoven: The burden was on you as the proposer to provide examples for this and the other property, but here's my take on it: the enwiki article for Give Me Everything (Q606884) lists seven other Billboard charts besides the Hot 100 on which the song charted. As I understand Jc86035's comments, this would require 14 (two times seven) more properties besides this and the other property to represent peak position and weeks listed on each of those charts. I thus am tempted to oppose this and the other property for the specificity as well, although I will support generalized versions of this and the other property if you're inclined to make such a change. Mahir256 (talk) 14:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Bossanoven: By that I meant there would be too many properties because of the sheer number of charts in existence. Let's assume that there are 100 organisations which publish national record charts, and that each of those organisations publishes 20 charts on average. That would be 2,000 potential properties which could instead be just one property with one more qualifier on each statement. Wikidata only has 5,600 properties right now. Jc86035 (talk) 17:27, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mahir256: While it might seem like a bit a monopoly or a bit narrow-minded, Billboard is considered sort of the de facto authority on charts figures in the United States since Cashbox stopped running concurrently, similar to how The New York Times is regarded as the de facto newspaper of record in the United States. It's true that I was only referring to Billboard Hot 100 for singles and Billboard Hot 200 for albums, both of which would only cover the United States. Like I said, this might seem close-minded, but then you should consider, for instance, that we have identifiers that cover sports leagues that only play in one country, and link to their databases, such as en:Liga ACB. I suppose we could create a generalized version that would use several charts from around the world, but I'm not sure I would be the best at setting up the property proposal. - Bossanoven (talk) 14:22, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Bossanoven: See w:Wikipedia:Record charts. Billboard's main chart archives go back to the first week they were created, and exist for every week thereafter (this is something like 30 charts, including the Canadian charts, the short-lived Philippine chart, the main genre-focused charts, and some others like the Social 50). The UK main chart archives (more than 20 different charts) are also on the website of the Official Charts Company; the Australian charts (all of them, currently 21) are online dating back to 2000 thanks to a government archival service; and most other national charts are usually updated online each week.

If you want another example of usage, see Eastside (Q55975144).

The most obviously pragmatic thing to do is to structure new properties for charts like charted in (P2291), since this just makes life a little easier for everyone trying to add and use data. If you're still not convinced I think it would be most useful to compare this sort of property to properties like review score (P444), rather than properties for identifiers in databases. That property seems to be working just fine with a one-size-fits-all approach, although the structure has the rating as the value rather than the publication (which makes sense—even though this is probably coincidental—since musical works often chart more than once on the same chart, whereas it's rarer for organisations to publish multiple reviews of the same thing). Jc86035 (talk) 17:14, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Another thing about the football databases is that the identifiers are tied directly to URLs, and AFAIK each external identifier property can only have one working formatter URL. Since this data isn't just a URL I don't think this proposed property would be directly comparable to properties for football databases. Jc86035 (talk) 17:27, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think what we need here is just a generic peak position property and a generic number of weeks on chart property. Posting complete chart runs, however, might not be public domain. - Bossanoven (talk) 17:35, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not done as discussion has stalled with no support − Pintoch (talk) 12:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]