Property talk:P5143
Documentation
callsign assigned to licensed Amateur Radio operator, station or satellite
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Single value, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Format, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Item P31, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Entity types
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Scope, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#Type Q5, Q455654, Q11740286, Q455647, Q5206574, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5143#citation needed
Occupation constraint
editIs there a good reason to have an occupation constraint on this field? Amateur radio is by definition (legally and by P31) a "hobby" and while it could be put under occupation, it's not an occupation per se. While a person who has a ham radio callsign will likely have had an occupation at some point in their life, it's not something required to be a ham. Ruthbrarian (talk) 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Updating to add that as I'm reviewing people who do not have that value added, it seems inappropriate to add "occupation: amateur radio operator" to Hassan II (Q69103), Qaboos bin Said Al Said (Q57331), Walter Cronkite (Q31073), Helen Sharman (Q237473) (who states in the interview I used for her reference that she only used it while aboard Mir), Priscilla Presley (Q234773), etc. In many cases it's an interesting data point about a person who's noteworthy for other things but not a significant enough part of their life to seem to merit an "occupation" statement. Ruthbrarian (talk)
- @Ruthbrarian: I agree completely. If someone wants to show that a person's hobby is amateur radio, you could add a stament Samantha Cristoforetti (Q379039)interested in (P2650)amateur radio (Q185727)
object of statement has role (P3831)hobby (Q47728). In addition, this property should be used in items about DX-pedition (Q5206574), amateur radio club (Q11740286), amateur radio satellite (Q455647) and amateur radio station (Q455654), where having occupation (P106) does not even make sense since they are not human. I will make these changes to the constraints soon if no one opposes. –Samoasambia ✎ 20:44, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
Single-value constraint
editI wouldn't consider it exceptionally rare that people have more than one callsign during their lifetime, or even simultaneously, for various reasons. They may have alternating residence in different countries, or emigrate altogether. Participants of DXpeditions get temporary (sometimes personal) callsigns at their destination. At the annual (except for epidemic years …) "Ham Radio" fair in Friedrichshafen at Lake Constance, regularly an opportunity is offered to take the test for a USA-based license (with correspondig callsign) to European hams additionally to their existing ones. In Germany, if you upgrade your license from basic to advanced level, your callsign has to change from DO* to something else. Even if you do nothing of the above, the systematics of callsigns where you live may change (in the de-WP there is a long article about the history of amateur radio callsigns in Germany), requiring operators to get new ones. --DK2EO (talk) 17:10, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
- @DK2EO: Yes that is very much true. Maybe we should consider removing the single-value constraint (and possibly distinct-values constraint as well)? I changed both to be suggestion constraints, so that the warnings on items are just suggestions and users may ignore them. There's now the possibility to separate callsigns with applies to jurisdiction (P1001) added by IagoQnsi, and that probably solves most of the possible cases together with the dates. –Samoasambia ✎ 13:14, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
Data type from external ID to string
editI propose that we change the data type of this property from external identifier (Q21754218) to Wikibase string datatype (Q29934246) because there is no global database for amateur radio callsigns, and persons/organizations may share the same callsign over time, which means they are not unique identifiers. Currently we link to QRZCQ.com which is essensially a website where people can create profiles for their callsigns and where the developers of the site have scraped some callsigns (but definitely not all) to create default profiles. For example, early radioamateurs Lelia Constanța Băjenescu (Q50885476) and Ioan Băjenescu (Q59143024) that shared the callsign CV5BI results in nothing on QRZCQ.com but the link is visible on the items anyways. In my opinion this is as if we linked property name in native language (P1559) to Facebook search, which doesn't make any sense. If a wiki wants to use this property to link to QRZCQ.com (or any other service) they can still define that locally with a template.
I asked about the possibility to changed the data type of a property, and I got an answer that this could be done easily via Maintenance scripts if we have a consensus about it, so creating a new property is not necessary. –Samoasambia ✎ 12:55, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Pintoch @DK2EO @Ruthbrarian. –Samoasambia ✎ 12:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Samoasambia: assuming that there is consensus for the move (I have no opinion), it looks like the way to get it done would be to file a Phabricator ticket similar to phab:T367174. − Pintoch (talk) 16:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Nevertheless, it's the kind of thing that (IMO) is better below the line, as an additional identification associated with the person, rather than cluttering up the general statements section. Jheald (talk) 09:28, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- Is there any rule that says external identifiers should be unique? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:59, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- Notwithstanding that we store thousands that are not unique due to errors on the originating site, I think it is an implied ideal. But we have no examples of these IDs being reused. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- Is there any rule that says external identifiers should be unique? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:59, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging the users that took part in the property proposal discussion back in 2018: ArthurPSmith, Pigsonthewing, Fuzheado, Renejm. Samoasambia ✎ 15:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think the post above gives cogent evidence why QRZCQ.com should be a third-party formatter URL, but not the primary formatter URL; and why CV5BI is a WD:Bonnie and Clyde case, but not why this should not be an external identifier. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for all the comments Jheald, MSGJ and Pigsonthewing. The main thing for me is removing the URL to QRZCQ.com, however in addition, I do support changing the datatype to string in line with call sign (P2317), aircraft registration (P426) and fleet or registration number (P2802). The problem with using the external ID datatype is that there isn't a single external "system" to which this property refers to, and in reality there's ~200 different communications regulators that have their own databases, only some of which are publicly available. Uniqueness is not required but I think it is something that people expect and is a quality of a good external ID property. Callsigns are also considered very personal within the amateur radio circle, and for example when writing an article, blog post etc. about a person their callsign is always mentioned after their name, which makes it kind of a nickname. In my opinion that makes it worth having this property in the general statements section as a string. Samoasambia ✎ 16:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
- Huh, I would have thought they would be unique but I can see why maybe not. Yes I agree it should be string datatype then. Some useful code (like the WikidataIntegrator python library) makes the assumption that external id's actually uniquely identify things, so it's good to have a clean separation there. ArthurPSmith (talk) 21:01, 25 September 2024 (UTC)