Talk:Q36524

Documentation

Where is the documentation for this Item? For Wikipedia editors who need to edit these elements to update the depreciated templates on Wikipedia. This is a problem. -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 02:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Is there an author control number for MacFound?

Is there an "MacFound" authority control number for fellowship awardees? I looked, but didn't see one.-Trilotat (talk) 13:16, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

A list of varibles can be found at Template:Authority_control Back ache (talk) 09:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Czech label autoritní kontrola

Sees limited use:

• https://www.google.com/books/edition/Knihovny_sou%C4%8Dasnosti/RY4nAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22autoritn%C3%AD+kontrola%22&dq=%22autoritn%C3%AD+kontrola%22&printsec=frontcover
• https://www.google.com/books/edition/Knihovna/ZsMVAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22autoritn%C3%AD+kontrola%22&dq=%22autoritn%C3%AD+kontrola%22&printsec=frontcover

--Dan Polansky (talk) 07:34, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Czech terminology

Sources:

• https://www.msvk.cz/data/filemanager/source/studijn%C3%AD%20texty%20pro%20knihovn%C3%ADky/2021/9_Stanova_Tvorba%20tezauru%20a%20souboru%20narodnich%20autorit.pdf
  • terms autorita, autoritní záznam, soubor autorit, národní autorita, selekční údaj, jmenná autorita, personální autorita, korporativní autorita, věcná autorita, geografická autorita, záhlaví, autorizovaný selekční údaj, tezaurus, kontrolovaný slovník

--Dan Polansky (talk) 08:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

authority control vs. authority file

The two are different entities/concepts. The entry currently covers both. What it does not cover is "authority record", which has a separate Wikidata entity. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Since "authority file" seems predominant in the referenced authorities and Wikipedias, I will restrict this entity to "authority file". A new entity for authority control is to be created. As for interwiki, this can be left as is for practical purposes since exact-entity-match is not so critical for interwiki interconnection. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:36, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: thanks for disentangling, I perfectly agree. I moved the sitelinks to authority control (Q118455746): process of creating authority files containing authority records, to establish preferred labels or heading to refer to entities as part of librarianship, since most of them are named "authority control" and pertinent translations. It just remains to clean labels, descriptions and aliases here, moving most of them to the new item. Could you have a look? Thanks! --Epìdosis 14:53, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: Thank you, what a nice surprise :). I'll see whether I will find energy to finish the rest. These kinds of Wikidata cleanups can be quite exhausting. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:36, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: Then you also need to revise uses of this item. I can't: I don't understand the difference between the two. --Infovarius (talk) 10:06, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

If you create a list of uses that you think needs an update, I can do it. As for the difference, authority control is a process whereas authority file is an output of the process. Thus, as analogy, car manufacturing is a process while car is an output of that process. This point is brought home in the authority control entity, which claims it to be a subclass of process. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

BTW: There seems to be a problem with the translation of this concept. @PantheraLeo1359531: Ich habe noch nie von einer "Autoritätskontrolle" oder "Autoritätsdateien" gehört. Im Bibliothekswesen spricht man von "Normdaten" und "Normdateien". Geht die Definition von Q118455746 ("Prozess der Erstellung von Autoritätsdateien, die Autoritätsdatensätze enthalten ...") auf eine automatisierte Übersetzung zurück? [1] @Emu: Im Duden kommen die Begriffe nicht vor. Was hälst du von der Übersetzung? --Kolja21 (talk) 14:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Excellent point: we need to stop making things up in the labels, and start using labels attested in use in the requisite sense. In the worst case, an original sum-pf-parts label can probably be used, when there is no suitable native label. I started to use talk pages to collect label attestation evidence; for some labels, Wiktionary can be used. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I’m not happy with the “disentanglement” (which seems to be solely based on linguistic intuition) and I really doubt that w:sv:Auktoritetsdata or w:de:Normdatei and probably others belong to authority control (Q118455746). According to Google Translate, w:cs:Autorita (knihovnictví) doesn’t really seem to fit either item.

@Kolja21 “Autoritätskontrolle” does not exist as a German word – I checked it in the largest linguistic corpus of the German language. --Emu (talk) 19:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The separation is based on ontology, on the contrast between a process and its output. The separation is maintained in Art & Architecture Thesaurus, in its entries for "authority files"[2] and "authority control"[3]. When the ontology is properly maintained, we can say things like "authority control is part of bibliographic control" and "authority file is a result/output of authority control"; we can then say that "Gemeinsame Normdatei is an instance of authority file". Without clean separation, we cannot say these things clearly.

Czech "autorita" probably refers to "authority record" since "soubor autorit" refers to authority file. I renamed the Czech encyclopedia article to "Autoritní kontrola", which is controlled by TDKIV, and thereby solved the ontological precision problem for Czech.

German word "Autoritätskontrolle" does exist per Google Books search (is attested in actual use), but seems to refer to something else, to a different meaning from the one required.

German would-be word "Autoritätsdatei" does not seem attested; "Normdatei" is the sought term.

The identity of Wikidata entities is ideally controlled via statements, including "subclass of" and "instance of"; labels and descriptions should ideally be updated to match the statement-based definition. It is further controlled by the thesauri linked to, e.g. Art & Architecture Thesaurus.

As for interwikis, these are best handled pragmatically, I think. I do not know of any guide or discussion to guide us in the decision how to map Wikidata entities to Wikipedias when ontological precision would force us to separate Wikipedias into multiple buckets instead of one bucket. I do not know whether, for interwikis, Wikidata prefers ontologically puristic approach or pragmatic approach. It may be that Wikidata prefers ontological mixing in its entities, although I hope it does not; is there a guide or a discussion suggesting as much? --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Sources distinguishing authority control and authority file

• Art & Architecture Thesaurus[4][5]
• Dictionary of Archives Terminology[6][7]
• TDKIV[8][9]

--Dan Polansky (talk) 05:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)