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User talk:Harmonia Amanda

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Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Harmonia Amanda/Archive 1 on 2015-08-10.

Chester Greenwood (December 4, 1858 – July 5, 1937)

7
Migrant (talkcontribs)

Hello Harmonia Amanda. I just saw a norwegian book-tip about 8 different children that has had an impact, and one of them was one real early ice skater, who got famous for other things, but it would be nice to find out more about his ice skating. A friend of mine are a speed skating historian and can't find him as a speed skater so maybe he was a figure skater which is why I turn to you, since I notice you do a lot of edits on figure skaters and figure skating-items on wikidata.

Qoute from the english wikipedia-article: He reportedly came up with the idea while ice skating and he asked his grandmother to sew tufts of fur between loops of wire.

So do you know of any results or competitions he may have participated in ? Best regards Migrant.

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

I'm afraid I don't know him at all. As far as I know he didn't participate in any big competitions (like Worlds or the Olympics), but he may have participated in local ones, since I really don't know anything about early American figure skating? You may have more luck asking U.S. Figure Skating (the American federation) on social media?

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)
Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Yes! (the quote from the English Wikipedia Migrant stated in their message is from the linked article to this item)

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

from the way it is stated, it seems that he was perhaps just ice skating like any other youngster, in those times, in North-East America in winter... just for fun, not as a competion sport ?

Migrant (talkcontribs)

Yes, the quoted sentence seems like just that, but a bright young kid which noticed this as a problem have probably skated more than once and could have participated in a local skating competition ? I guess to find out more about C. Greenwood, you'll have to go through the local newspapers of he's time.

BTW. The book-tip-page is here allthough it is in norwegian but you'll get the names, C. Greenwood are the number 8 in the list.

Best regards Migrant.

Migrant (talkcontribs)

Hello again, I made a search at Chronicling America got 13 results, and looked through the 1870's and 1880's results and found nothing about skating. Best regards Migrant.

Melike Pekel - https://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/players/player=250089455/profile/index.html

5
E4024 (talkcontribs)

Hi. Can you please kindly correct your mistake about this item at Commons? (I am not editing there.) Merci beaucoup.

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

It would probably be easier if you tell me what the mistake is. All Wikipedias I can understand say she is German-Turkish, playing for Turkey, which is not contradicted in your source and neither on Commons.

E4024 (talkcontribs)
Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

I didn't see the flag on her shirt. I haven't opened her category before and don't know her at all. I ran a query about all German sportspeople to populate the category. She was a line among thousands of lines, and the edits where all made using QuickCategories, which is not showing any picture.

She is German, so the data is not wrong, so I'm not sure what is there to fix. When I started working on sports categories on Commons (for figure skating, where it's frequent that skaters represent countries they don't have the nationality of), people told me these categories where for both sports nationalities and citizenship. So as a German-Turkish footballer, she should have both categories.

It seems like you think these categories should only concern sport nationality and not citizenship (from what I understand of your writing, I may be wrong). If that's the case, that seem to me like a really big change in scope, which should be discussed expansively on Commons (where I'm not an admin, by the way). It would not take long to query people categorized in 'wrong' categories, and to delete these, but such a massive change on how Commons handle things should definitely be discussed first.

And I'm not sure why we are discussing on Wikidata what is a Commons issue? I thought at first you wanted to correct a data error here but it seem like what you disagree with is mostly Commons policy? (and by the way, I would approve a clear separation about sport nationalities and citizenship in Commons categories; I just think a change of scope so massive should be discussed and not decided on an user talk page in another project).

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

By the way that's all the people categorized in "Sportspeople from Germany" on Commons without having Germany as their sport nationality: Petscan. If you want to 'correct' that without discussing it first, you can.

Structured Data - blogs posted in Wikimedia Space

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MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

There are two separate blog entries for Structured Data on Commons posted to Wikimedia Space that are of interest:

  • Working with Structured Data on Commons: A Status Report, by Lucas Werkmeister, discusses some ways that editors can work with structured data. Topics include tools that have been written or modified for structured data, in addition to future plans for tools and querying services.
  • Structured Data on Commons - A Blog Series, written by me, is a five-part posting that covers the basics of the software and features that were built to make structured data happen. The series is meant to be friendly to those who may have some knowledge of Commons, but may not know much about the structured data project.
I hope these are informative and useful, comments and questions are welcome. All the blogs offer a comment feature, and you can log in with your Wikimedia account using oAuth. I look forward to seeing some posts over there. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Reply to "Structured Data - blogs posted in Wikimedia Space"

wbEntity config value to be dropped on July 24th

1
Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talkcontribs)

Hello,

We are about to drop the mw.config.get( 'wbEntity') config value, that is deprecated for two years. Starting on Wednesday, July 24th, scripts that use this value may encounter issues.

I noticed that your script located on User:Harmonia Amanda/namescript2.js is still using this value. I suggest that you update it, for example by using the hook wikibase.entityPage.entityLoaded (see an example here).

If you have any questions or need help, feel free to leave a comment under the related task.

Thanks for your understanding!

Capmo (talkcontribs)
Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Hi, thank you for the warning! I fixed the script and I'll run corrections starting today (because it was actually that way in several bots lists and scripts, so there are many items needing fixing). It will probably take a few days since I'm traveling from the Wikimedia hackathon and so I don't have a stable internet connection, but it will be fixed and hopefully all the bots lists fixed also.

Capmo (talkcontribs)

Thank you! :D

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

For information I corrected nearly 250 000 items and there are still some to do, because it was that way in the main bots/scripts since 2013. But everything will be corrected in the end!

Reply to "Typo in Portuguese labels"

Quickstatements problem

6
Summary by Harmonia Amanda

magnus fixed it

ArthurPSmith (talkcontribs)

Hi - I notice you just added some Quickstatements batches - I've been trying to get hold of Magnus for the last hour or so but haven't had any luck; Quickstatements batches are basically frozen right now, if you check https://tools.wmflabs.org/quickstatements/#/batches there's only ONE job actually running (i.e. with any DONE items and a Last update time in the last couple of hours). Any ideas what we can do?

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Wait? Last week it took 6 hours before my background batch started, but it did start and run successfully. I think @TweetsFactsAndQueries: also have access to QS if you can't get hold of Magnus (not sure, maybe Magnus still has to push TweetsFactsAndQueries's contributions to it)

TweetsFactsAndQueries (talkcontribs)
ArthurPSmith (talkcontribs)

The backlog has been growing for a while, I've been pestering Magnus a bit about it for a few days now, but it got severely worse this morning, dropping from seven running jobs to just the 1. There should be up to 16 simultaneous batches running, not 7, and certainly not 1! I think he needs to kill off dead jobs somehow, but I'm not sure how it's deployed or exactly what that means.

ArthurPSmith (talkcontribs)

And now it's completely frozen, the last running job finished and nothing new has started up. A job I submitted two days ago finally started yesterday after 27 hours wait; it looks like the wait for batches currently in the queue will likely be more than a day...

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

I can't do anything, only Magnus can.

Summary by Harmonia Amanda

pas vraiment résolu mais pas d'idée

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

Salut Harmonia,

Connais-tu un outil qui permette d'établir une liste (statique) des créations d'éléments faites par un contributeur (avec liens) pour aller les reprendre une par une... il s'agit d'une wikisourcienne qui a créé plus de 2500 d'éléments (pas nécessairement liés à wikisource) à vérifier...

j'ai bien trouvé https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/user_edits.php? mais je ne sais pas comment le paramétrer... et l'idée c'est de pouvoir sauvegarder la liste dans une sous-page pour pouvoir ensuite rayer ce qu'on a déjà revu...

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Là comme ça, pas d'idée d'outil. J'irais dans sa liste de contributions, je sélectionnerais uniquement les créations de page dans l'espace principal à la période qui m'intéresse, et je ferais un copié-collé dans Flow, qui repère qu'il y a des liens et convertit ça en wikitexte. Puis je collerais le Wikitexte en sous-page. Opération à répéter trois fois puisque les pages de contributions acceptent seulement 1000 éditions au maximum.

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

ah ! je n'aurais pas pensé à passer par Flow, pour convertir en lien... bonne idée ! je vais tester...

... mmmm... je n'arrive pas à convertir en wikitexte... la pile de liens semble trop grosse :(

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Urgh, j'ai guère de solution hormis faire des piles plus petites mais du coup ça fait plus d'opérations :s

Multichill (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Quick addition of claims"
Mike Peel (talkcontribs)
Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Yes I know, I'm starting to think we need a bot to delete all the wrong links and trying to map several maintenance queries to spot all the problems. I have some, but I'll tweak them still this week I think, before doing some project proposal for clean-up.

Mike Peel (talkcontribs)

A bot would probably help - let me know if there's anything I can help with via python/pywikibot coding. I'm hoping that we can remove the duplication of data to just use the sitelinks rather than P373 and local values, but that's a longer term goal.

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Will you be in Prague? We could work on it then, if you are there.

Mike Peel (talkcontribs)

I'm not attending the hackathon, sorry, but might be able to contribute remotely that weekend if that would help.

Reply to "Commons category link removal"
Kaganer (talkcontribs)

Please explain your revert. "Yakovlev" is not an independent surname, this is transliteration of russian surname "Яковлев" only.

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

There are people born in Latin-script country bearing this name. The reference for P31 is even stating it's an American name. The latin-script version of the name is clearly based on the Russian name but it has become a name all of its own. The Russian name would be transliterated differently on some latin-script languages, but the American version of the name would stay the same. They are two different names, one derived from the other.

To be more clear: Wikidata is creating an entry for each different string of a name; a Latin-script version and a Cyrillic version (or hangeul, or kanji, or…) are by definition not the same string and should then be on separate items. Russian people bear Yakovlev (Q21450308) "Яковлев", the Cyrillic name (which should be by far the most used) and American people (who most probably are of Russian descent) bear Yakovlev (Q37559986) "Yakovlev" or Jakovlev (Q42293799) "Jakovlev" or any other transliteration-which-then-became-a-real-surname.

Kaganer (talkcontribs)

Three questions:

  1. where described this algorithm?
  2. In the Wikimedia Commons all categories is named in English; and all peoples with this surname may be collect into one single category. Only one Wikidata item may be linked to the Commons category. How to choose?
  3. For Russian surname "Яковлев" may be filled English label. And for latin "Yakovlev" may be filled Russian label. How to distinguish?
Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

1. There is a Wikiproject about names, all this was decided years ago, and there are help pages, scripts, etc.

2. Commons choices are Commons choices, and should be asked there. I guess if the category title is in English the correct sitelink would be the Latin-script one, but that's a guess, not an answer

3. Labels should always be in the language of the label (Russian in Russian, French in French, Japanese in Japanese, etc.), because people with only a basic phone with only their own writing system present on their devices need to be able to read it. I don't have devanagari installed by default on my work computer but we do have names in devanagari on Wikidata.

The label is then the most frequent transliteration of the name in the language. Other transliterations are added as aliases, since most of the times you'll have different transliteration systems coexisting.

The description make it clear what the item is about. On Yakovlev (Q21450308) (the Cyrillic name), all languages not using Cyrillic have a description like that "family name (Яковлев)" (in French "nom de famille (Яковлев)", etc.). On Yakovlev (Q37559986) (the Latin-script name), all descriptions in languages not using Latin-script are this way: "фамилия - Yakovlev" (in Russian). So it should always be clear what the item is about, and if you are working on names, there are scripts to add in one click all labels, descriptions and aliases based on native label (P1705).

Infovarius (talkcontribs)

3. The other choice (more appropriate from my point of view) is to use all (frequent?) variants joined in a label. Like "Yakovlev/Jakovlev"

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Except that "Jakovlev" is not an English transliteration for Яковлев? It's an Italian one? Why would it be on the English label?

Infovarius (talkcontribs)

Ok, "Yakovleff" then

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

It's an old transliteration from the nineteenth century, so useful as an alias bor soemone working with old translations of books (for example on Wikisource) but nobody would transliterate that way nowadays… I'm really not convinced.

Harmonia Amanda (talkcontribs)

Ok, I've looked at Commons. It seems that names are added automatically based on the English label of the name ; meaning that if Яковлев English label changed, all people bearing Яковлев would be categorized in a different category from Yakovlev (which have a really small chance of happening between English and Russian, but there are other languages for which different transliteration systems coexist). I would say the category is about the Latin-script string in this case, since it's the only one not at a risk to change.

But there are technical ways to deal with the choice Commons made to be exclusively in English. The most obvious would be to create a template at the top of every name category stating:

"This category concerns people named 'Yakovlev' and 'Яковлев'"

We should also add related names too, like "Jakovlev", in another section. And probably add explicitly the writing systems ("'Yakovlev' (Latin script) and 'Яковлев' (Cyrillic)"), because for other examples it's not so clear:

"This category concerns people names 'Han' (Latin script), '韩' (Simplified Chinese), '韓' (Traditional Chinese), '한' (Hangul), '伴' (Kanji), and '坂' (Kanji)"

By the way 伴 in Japanese can be pronounced Tomo, Tomono, Tomori, Ban and Han.

It would be a system similar to the one existing on the French Wikisource, were we do use Wikidata to classify authors, and where we want Чехов to be with the T (Tchekhov), but eventual American Chekhov to be with C.

Wikidata should be able to deal with language-to-language combinations.

Reply to "Yakovlev vs Яковлев"
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