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User talk:Hsarrazin

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Bienvenue sur ma page de discussion. Vous pouvez m'écrire en français ou en anglais.

Welcome to my talk page: I understand French and English.

Please be nice :)

Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Hsarrazin/Archive 1 on 2016-12-16.

Mes projets

MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Wikidata weekly summary #387"
Levana Taylor (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Auteurs non identifiés"
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WikiTatik (talkcontribs)

Dear Hsarrazin,

please don't change Samvel Yeritsyan item properties. Samvel Yeritsyan is alive.

Thank you!

Mbch331 (talkcontribs)

this edit made sure it won't happen again. The date of death was added based on a category on the hywiki article.

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

Thanks @Mbch331 - sorry for that wrong addition...

not always easy to catch on the flight when editing with

I tend to be more careful when the site is NOT the same language as the involved person, but have greater trust in hywp for armenians, zhwp for chinese people, etc.

Reply to "Samvel Yeritsyan is alive!"
MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Wikidata weekly summary #385"
2001:7D0:81F7:B580:E8F7:D9B1:A52F:ACF7 (talkcontribs)

Hi! Is it documented somewhere that sitelink in work item cannot be link to particular translation? If Wikisource in particular language has only one edition of a work and hence no separate work page, then removing a sitelink (Special:Diff/1025032410) seems counter-productive to me as there'll be no language links left on Wikisource. I understand we should create edition item here for this language, but couldn't we still keep the sitelink attatched to work item if there is no intention to create separate work page on Wikisource for this language?

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

The wikisource interwikilinks CANNOT be managed by being added to the SAME item on wikidata : the structure is not designed for this... when you add all links in all languages on the same item, there are multiple translators, languages, dates, etc., which is completely absurd... data cannot be properly extracted that way.

for the structure work/edition to be used, please refer to Wikidata:WikiProject_Books (which is also to be applied on texts, poems, etc. published inside books)

For the displaying of other languages on wikisource, there is a tool that is being constructed, that will use the work/editions link to display the other language links from the editions listed on the work...

As long as this tool is not deployed, please add the links as ordinary wikilinks on the text in wikisource, but do not move the links to the "work" item... @Tpt: can you please tell me when it will be ok ?

Tpt (talkcontribs)

It should be deployed soon hopefully. The process to deploy a new extension on Wikimedia projects is very heavy and you have to push a lot to make things happen. The relevant task is phabricator:T210174

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

Thanks a lot... there are a more and more wikisource contributors who merge items, or add wrong links to work, wanting to get automatic links...

yesterday, I worked on The Raven (Q22726) for 2 hours to clean up the mess ^^

see ;)

2001:7D0:81F7:B580:5183:36ED:E41C:8CD4 (talkcontribs)

Alright, if I get it right what the extension will do, then this is good news. However, may I suggest moving sole sitelinks (no work page on Wikisource) to edition items after the extension has been deployed. While Wikidata:WikiProject Books doesn't seem to say anything about sitelinks, I find relevant example of less strict use of sitelinks from Wikidata:Wikisource#What does this mean?. (Though, apparenty you broke this example last year: Special:Diff/671608060).

This seems somewhat similar to handling of sitelinks for Commons category pages: if there are relevant category pages on other project then Commons sitelink is attached to category item along with category pages on other projects, and if there aren't then Commons category sitelink may be attached to topic item too.

As for the data structure, to be clear, I'm not suggesting that work items and editions items should be merged here. I'm concerned only about where it is more useful to place certain sitelinks.

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

you suggest to move sitelinks to appropriate items later... but there are already thousands of items, and duplicates are created, because of the sitelink being removed and added to the Work item. This is creating a mess on wikidata, for wikisource purpose...

and people editing wikidata from their projects with dedicated tools (like WEF) increase the mess by adding statements to the wikidata item linked to the text, from this tool, which worsen the mess... we now have hundreds of thousand items that need to be cleaned up because of this...

on frwikisource, as on other wikisource (including enwikisource) projects, texts have been linked by thousands to edition items...

Wikidata:Wikisource#What_does_this_mean? was written before the Book project was built, and therefore supposed wikilinks could be stored on wikidata, like for wikipedias... it's been proved inpractical, but the wikisource page was not changed, unfortunately :(

please keep to the structure work/edition... (and keep your links on the ws project - they will be easy enough to remove by bot afterwards), whereas cleaning a messed up item takes a human, and hours of work ! (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure that I follow. How does moving a sitelink result in a duplicate item? If you mean that work item and edition items are "duplicating" each other, then these are supposed to be separate anway, isn't it? I see that confusion may arise from leaving a text without language links on Wikisource, and this may result in unwanted merger or work item and edition item. My suggestion hopefully avoids large part of this confusion.

Again, I'm in no way suggesting that there shouldn't be separate items for work and its editions. I don't think that my suggestion cotradicts WikiProject Books. This is only about sitelinks. I understand that less strict handling of sitelink is or was until very recently the status quo anyway.

2001:7D0:81F7:B580:5183:36ED:E41C:8CD4 (talkcontribs)

Looking at The Raven (Q22726) I see that separate edition items for some translations simply didn't exist. It doesn't seem like any new "mess" was created due to sitelinks.

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

it took me 2 hours yesterday to clean it up ^^ (just for 1 work) - there were 3 different items for the same pt translation (without links)

if you find other translations without wikidata link, just create them as version, edition, or translation (Q3331189) and link them to the work through P629/P747... do NOT add them back to the work.

Hsarrazin (talkcontribs)

because of edition items created once, then twice, then again, from the same link, moved, again an again...

I once had to clean 5 different items that were initially linked to the same text on the same wikisource... when the link is gone, there is no easy control that it already exists...

I do not know which is your main' project, since you are not logged in. but if you want to contribute wikisource items, please read and respect Wikidata:Wikisource/How_to_help...

linking an edition page to a work item is WRONG, for wikidata AND for wikisource... your suggestion does not work (it has been tested and led to the actual mess we have to clean up, manually...) please, don't add to the mess !

By the way... are you the same person under 3 different IPs ? could you please log in, so I can interact with you more simply and see what you work on ?

2001:7D0:81F7:B580:5183:36ED:E41C:8CD4 (talkcontribs)

Well, then perhaps you could just hold on with separating sitelinks and creating new editon items then in case Wikisource has only one edition and no work page, until the extension has been deployed. Then you wouldn't create the mess of duplicate items for the same edition.

If language links were moved to Wikisource a while ago and it was generally considered alright then it doesn't seem right to me to simply leave texts without any language links now. If you really believe it's important to go on with implementing the strict use of sitelinks now, then please also (temporarily) restore the ordinary wikilinks on Wikisource.

Yes, it's all me. I don't work with book items actively. I just noticed that language links were gone for particular text.

Reply to "Work vs. edition"
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Structured Data - blogs posted in Wikimedia Space

MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

There are two separate blog entries for Structured Data on Commons posted to Wikimedia Space that are of interest:

  • Working with Structured Data on Commons: A Status Report, by Lucas Werkmeister, discusses some ways that editors can work with structured data. Topics include tools that have been written or modified for structured data, in addition to future plans for tools and querying services.
  • Structured Data on Commons - A Blog Series, written by me, is a five-part posting that covers the basics of the software and features that were built to make structured data happen. The series is meant to be friendly to those who may have some knowledge of Commons, but may not know much about the structured data project.
I hope these are informative and useful, comments and questions are welcome. All the blogs offer a comment feature, and you can log in with your Wikimedia account using oAuth. I look forward to seeing some posts over there. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
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