User talk:Innocent bystander/Archive 5

Sökning i raderade versioner

Angående denna, vad exakt var det att du ville att jag skulle kolla? Länken verkar inte leda någonvart. Gabbe (talk) 15:44, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Jag förstår. Jag kan inte hitta något item på Wikidata (varken nuvarande eller raderat) som länkar/länkade till "sv:Kategori:Svenska musiker under 1900-talet". Vill du att jag skapar ett? Gabbe (talk) 08:35, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Amalgamation

At Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion#architectural_style_.28P149.29, if you don't want it to be mixed up, it might be better to oppose deletion. --- Jura 07:10, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Jura1: As I said, I think it works semantically, but I am worried that it will look strange for those who are not familiar with how things work here (and that is almost every Wikipedian). That is not an argument good enough to vote against. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 07:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Aww

;). Thx. --Denny (talk) 15:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi, @Denny:, I looked into your userpage and therefor looked into the item about you. Your academic degree there is doctorate (Q849697). As far as I understand you are a "Doctor", maybe in computer science. The Swedish label in "Q849697" is "promotion". As far as I know, "promotion" is the ceremony when you get your hat and diploma as doctor. Then I guess the Swedish label of that item is wrong. The Swedish article about the title doctor can be found in Doctor (Q4618975). What is then the difference between Q4618975 and Q849697?

On the other hand: The Swedish article about "promotion" can be found at graduation (Q1054021). The corresponding English article is there "Graduation". Cite: "Graduation is the action of receiving or conferring an academic degree or the ceremony that is sometimes associated, where students become graduates." That does not sounds like "promotion" to me. The corresponding word in Swedish for that is "Examen". The sv-article sv:Examen is a multi-subject article. It's about the final tests before you have your degree, the ceremony around your graduation and the academic degree itself.

Sighhhh, it's times like this Wikidata does not sound like a good idea! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 16:30, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Or like a great idea, because problems like these, that have existed previously, are now finally being tackled and slowly resolved - but much easier resolved than it used to be. I am pretty sure that there is a solution for the items around the doctoral degree, and that it can be worked out on a page like Wikidata:Interwiki conflicts. --Denny (talk) 16:57, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

P.S.: my degree is a "Dr. rer. pol." given to me by the department of economical sciences of the KIT ;)

@Denny: The main problem here is that Wikipedia sometimes tends to have Wiktionary-articles, Wikidata does not easily solve those cases. Here for example "sv:Examen" has three different meanings, and is merged into one article only because they share one common name in Swedish, and maybe Swedish only. (But I am not sure the Swedish speaking part of Finland have all these three meanings in this word.) We can solve that here on Wikidata, but the Wikipedians do not always think of semantics when they choose which articles should share interwiki.

And I have university-points in a large range of subjects. The total amount of points is comparable with halfway through a doctor-degree, but I have split them in Economics, Math, Mechanics, Physics, Material science and Chemistry. But I have never written any thesis, so I cannot graduate in anything. I intended to write a thesis in Math, but I went sick and quit. Now I intend to read archeology this fall. What I work with? Accounting! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 19:20, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

That's a seriously cool mixture. I wish I had a decent understanding of more of these areas.

One solution, if sv:Examen has a unique meaning which is not represented in any other Wikipedia, is to create a unique item on Wikidata, and e.g. provide the extra language links locally. Or choose one meaning as the main meaning, connect that, and have it point from the secondary meanings in other languages locally. Or something like that.

It's not unsolvable, just... fizzly. --Denny (talk) 21:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

@Denny: The hard thing about it, is to learn the Wikipedians to 1. create articles with one subject, not three. 2. to accept that Wikidata shouldn't be used to merge a Swedish three-subject-item with a single-subject-item.

The attitude among the Wikipedians today, is that Wikidata is the place where you fix the interwiki (and nothing else) and many of them thinks the old-style iw-links should not be allowed anymore. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 06:23, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Wikivoyage

As requested... @Innocent bystander: regarding Användardiskussion:Riggwelter! :-) Riggwelter (talk) 19:41, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Tennis rankings

You deprecated the properties for tennis rankings in favour of ranking (P1352), but I'm wondering how now the Wikipedias are going to be able to retrieve the information for each singles and doubles rankings, when they are now grouped together under one property. I updated Louisa Chirico (Q12825880) with the new ones, but I really don't like it. Oh well. I had been busy over the last few months taking time in adding the rankings, so how will a bot be able to transfer these over? Hopefully won't be a problem... Jared Preston (talk) 18:00, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I see now your post at WD:AN from this morning... Jared Preston (talk) 20:36, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I only interpreted the PfD, it was not the idea of my own. Observe that I have asked in the AN that we should inform the WP-communities before any replacement take place.

But I think this will make it even easier to add ranking to sports. Now you can add "junior wheelchair tennis double ranking for blind mormons" if you like, not only double and single tennis. Module:Wikidata already gives some options to get this information. Serena Williams: 1 (tennis doubles and tennis singles) -- Innocent bystander (talk) 05:54, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Since I was the one who added the majority of the rankings to the items of tennis players on my watchlist, I will remove the old rankings and add them to ranking (P1352). It may take a while, but I guess you are right – I could also add junior tennis (Q4534566) rankings. Sorry, by the way, if you're not at all interested in the sport, then this is probably boring for you! Jared Preston (talk) 07:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

I think A bot easy can help you with that. It's not a complicated task for them. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 07:55, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

This user

is far to busy to hang around here the following days. If you see him here, block him! This user and his employer would see a great value in such an action! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 19:52, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Jet

Hei, har du en full setning der ordet jet blir brukt i forbindelse med smykkemateriale ? --Pmt (talk) 17:06, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Med reservation för att jag inte har norsk ä och ö enkelt tillgänglig:

"Jet er et slags steinkull av hard, jevn masse med tett, fin struktur. Det kan skäres, dreies og poleres og er velegnet til fint kunstarbeid. I naturen finnes jet i bestente strök i Hannover, Sachsen, Sör-Frankrike og Portugal. Jet fra disse områdene er imilertid ikke av särlig god kvalitet. Den fine jetet kommer bare fra to områder, Galicia i Spania och Yorkshire i England. Til sammen 12 norske funn fra vikingatiden inneholder gjenstander av jet."

Solberg s 227. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 17:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Adding iwlinks using arbitrary access

OK, my friend, you're on: How do I do this? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:32, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

You may copy s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Lavallen2 into your wiki and install it into a template in relevant pages. Observe that you have to change line 3 and 4 to thiswiki = 'ladwiki' and thislanguage = 'lad'. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 17:18, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

That part I get. Once the module is installed, what is the syntax for invoking it? StevenJ81 (talk) 17:58, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

{{#invoke:The name of the module you installed ex-the Module-part of the name|interwiki}}

-- Innocent bystander (talk) 06:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I assume that "interwiki" here means the language code I'm trying to get, right? Do I still have to do them one at a time? Or is there a way to get them all at once? StevenJ81 (talk) 13:11, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Never mind. Got it! Haven't yet tried it by placing a P460 statement in a Wikidata item; I'll do that next. But the syntax {{#invoke:name|interwiki|qid=Qnnn}} definitely does the trick! Thank you very much for this! StevenJ81 (talk) 14:30, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Succeeded the other way as well, creating Q20818059 for the purpose. (Not sure how else to do that.) Now that I know it works, I think I will hold off on other conversions until the "no interwiki links" cached report (lad:Especial:SinIntervikis) refreshes. I'll be interested to see whether the system recognizes these two articles as having interwiki links or not. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:43, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

"interwiki" is here the name of the function in the Module, since there can be more than one function in a module. Yes, either you use qid in the call or you use the P460 in the related item. Both systems works, but qid is priorited, so if there is a qid-variable, said to be the same as (P460) will be ignored. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:37, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Question (since it's your work): Would you like to make a Wikidata link for this module? Or do you want to keep it more quiet for now? If you want to make a WD link, the location on ladwiki is lad:Módulo:Interwiki. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:43, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I do not see it as "my work", I am not an educated hacker. I just have some luck with trial and error sometimes. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

LOL. Me, too; I "tried and erred" with your module until I got it to work. I'll do a Data item; as far as you know, are those two placements (ladwiki and svwikisource) the only placements so far, or are there others? StevenJ81 (talk) 16:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I haven't heard of any others, but I know for example nnwiki could have use for this module. They have a similair problem as ladwiki. They have a handfull of articles in other versions of Norwegian than nynorsk. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 16:06, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done (at Module:Interwiki (Q20819069)) StevenJ81 (talk) 16:17, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

The last piece I was waiting to determine was whether using this module would show pages using it as having interwiki links (per lad:Especial:SinIntervikis). And it does. So that's great, and I'll start fully implementing this. More to the point, though ... StevenJ81 (talk) 13:38, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

A solution to (one half of) the Bonnie-and-Clyde Problem?

One of the other tasks I've taken on at ladwiki is to reduce the number of pages not connected to Wikidata items. Two I found fairly recently were lad:Template:InterWiki and lad:Template:Interwiki paez. The first is a routine, very common template put at the bottom of articles on languages, pointing the reader to the Wikipedia in that language. It was simple and straightforward to link that template to Template:InterWiki (Q6275256), eliminate the manual iw links, and be done.
The second template, though, is not so common. It's very similar to the first, but is designed to go at the bottom of country pages. ("Wikipedia in French is a version of Wikipedia in a language spoken by the people of this country.") Interestingly, when I first went to that template, it had a lot of interwiki links. They were all manual, and they were all to the other template—i.e., the ones in Q6275256. And oddly, there was no link to a template on eswiki, which is frequently the source of content on ladwiki. So I checked on eswiki, and found a corresponding template there, also heavily linked through manual iw links to the first template.
I connected those two as Template:InterwikiCountry (Q20819350). Then, I thought to myself, what happens if I replace all the manual iw links on the ladwiki template with the module, targeted to Q6275256? I tried it, and it worked perfectly: The Spanish link still pointed to the Q208193250 counterpart, while all the other links pointed to items in Q6275256.
So it seems to me that if you put this module, pointed to Bonnie and Clyde (Q219937) on Bonnie Parker pages and Clyde Barrow pages, then the interwiki links on those two pages would point to their direct counterparts, should they exist, or else to the page on Bonnie and Clyde, if the individual pages don't exist.
It could work in the other direction, of course, but the problem there is you have to choose either Bonnie or Clyde, so it still doesn't fix the key part of that problem.
So, there you go! StevenJ81 (talk) 13:38, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

It is a fair solution, yes! You could create a sister-module to this one, which uses part of (P361) instead of said to be the same as (P460), or who call for P361 when P460 is missing. The only drawback is that P361 is extremly generic, which can cause unexpected effects. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:30, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I think that in this setting, using a direct |qid=Qnnn call, rather than depending on a property, is explicitly a better idea. Doing it this way ensures such links are added in only after explicit deliberation, and perhaps discussion on a talk page, that it's the right thing to do, and the right item to link to.

In the original setting, I haven't decided if using P460 to define the link is explicitly better for the calling project (i.e., ladwiki, svwikisource, or a Norwegian project)—even though I'm doing it that way. After all, that approach creates a vulnerability. If someone decides to stick a P460 in on a Wikidata page somewhere maliciously, it could effectively vandalize the iwlinks at the calling project, and might not be noticed for a while. Using a property lookup may explicitly be better for Wikidata, because it makes it more likely that every page on a Wikipedia will have a Wikidata item (like this one: Q20819912), and there will be a good and explicit reason not to delete it. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:00, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

We do not know yet how stable these qid will become. There is therefor today no waterproof solutions. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 16:14, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

True, though if the policy of retaining redirects remains in place, it won't be too much of a problem. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:15, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Brief comment and question

Comment. The one thing this doesn't do is to import badges for FA/GA. At worse, that's probably no big deal. At best, articles with really long lists of iw links almost inevitably contain at least one or two articles that are FA or GA; not showing them with the module is actually a good, quick way for me to see which in my pair of articles is calling links directly and which is calling by way of the module.
Question. Where (if anywhere) do you want to publicize this as a potential solution to Bonnie-and-Clyde? StevenJ81 (talk) 17:41, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I guess it's possible to copy what the old GA/FA-templates did here. Give me a few days, to see what can be done. Do these templates still exists on ladwiki?

Don't know. And I'm not sure I even want you to fix this. But the point is that the information on FA and GA is now communicated throughout the community by means of "badges" in Wikidata, rather than through templates at the target wikis.

But it wasn't the templates in the "target wikis" that installed the graphics in the interwiki. It was some local templates in the wiki that was (poorly) maintained by some bots. You maybe do not want this installed at ladwiki, but it is still something I should look into, how it could be solved. The information is in the same part of the code as I used to create these links. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 06:45, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

There is a devoted page Wikidata:WikiProject Cross Items Interwikis, where this far, I am the only contributor to the talk-page. There I maybe more talk about a solution to the interwiki-problems on Wikisource, something that is closer to my heart, than Bonnie and Clyde on Wikipedia. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll look there. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:17, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

argument of periapsis

argument of periapsis (P2248) is ready. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:27, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Module:Interwiki

Hi, Bystander. I saw the little tweak you made. I wonder if we actually want to go out of our way to exclude pages on those non-Wikipedia projects. That is to say, I wouldn't have gone out of my way to ask you to make sure the code included them, but I also wouldn't have asked you to go out of your way to exclude them. Most of the time, such links are at worst innocuous, and at best helpful. (See Wikimedia main page (Q5296).) Sometimes, you probably would really want them (any botany/zoology page with a link to species). Curious why you chose to exclude them. (PS: continues to work great for us at lad.) StevenJ81 (talk) 17:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Of course, it could be great of value with links to Commons, Species, Meta, Wikidata. But I am not sure if the module in it current state is able to add interwiki to these project. Technically the module cuts the "wiki" away from "xywiki" and create interwiki by the help of "xy" in this way: [[xy:sitelink to xywiki]]. Such links automatically adds to the left panel of the page. But a link to Wikimedia Commons does normally not create such a link. See commons:Main page. It is not displayed in the left panel, but in the plain text of the article. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 17:53, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah. I take your point. It's true that Wikimedia main page (Q5296) does show a link to commons on its pages, but that's clearly built into the system, not done by creating textual interwiki links. So unless you/someone (not me) figures out how that works in the system, the module won't do it. And I'm not sure it's worth the effort for you to figure out how. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:24, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

It is probably done by some goblin/elf-js/css-magic, and that is not my field at all. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 18:39, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I discovered that the capability is one of the beta tests, anyway, not even fully integrated yet. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:05, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Interesting. One of the pages on my wiki using the template started showing a redlink to a page on mediawiki (mediawikiwiki) in the body text. And it was a redlink because using "mediawiki" by itself invokes the MediaWiki namespace, not the iw link. So I went into the module and added 'mediawikiwiki' to the list of wikis to skip. (That fix worked.) I did that on the three copies currently running on Wikipedias, but not on the copy you are running on svwikisource, because the "list to skip" there was already different. So I'll let you decide how you want to handle that. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:35, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I am not aware of that the page on Wikisource is used anywhere on that project.

The mediawikilink is possible to use, but you have to add ['mediawiki'] = 'mw' in the "langcode-table" in the beginning of the page. But of course, as we already have concluded above, it would not add the interwiki to the left panel, but to the plain text in the page itself. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 07:47, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Danish parish code

Danish parish code (P2290) is ready for use. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:32, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Q503361

Why do you change from the city to commune? How can administrative unit be a sister city? --Infovarius (talk) 11:27, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I would rather ask: How can something that isn't an administrative unit be a sister city?

Q2211 is an Urban area, a statistical unit constructed by Statistics Sweden, which cannot sign any sister city-agreement. It has no counsil, no mayor, no legislative body. It has a geoshape, a population and a number of buildings and nothing else.

If you look into the homepage of Malmö kommun, it has a number of sister city-agreements. Se here. (Vänort=Sister city)

The urban areas only exists in the record of Statistics Sweden or Eurostat. They have no homepage and they cannot sign any agreement with anybody.

Malmö kommun name themself "Malmö stad", i.e. "Malmö City" but their official name according to the national law is "Malmö kommun" and that is what we call them on svwp.

The City-entity with the official name of "Malmö" was dissolved in 1971. We have not had any real "Stad/City" in Sweden since then. But we still use the name "Stad/City" for large urban areas and some communes still name themself "Stad/City", but that is more of a trademark than an official name. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 12:43, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

@Infovarius: Are you pleased with my explanation? I intend to proceed with Eskilstuna who have the same problem. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

@Infovarius: I just changed a statement in Petrozavodsk (Q1895) which I could confirm by the help of the homepage of the city. Strangly, the homepage of Umeå city did not say a single word about any sister city-relation with any city. It talked about a "twin-city"-relation with Wasa, Finland, but that is not always the same thing. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:03, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

What a complicated system for Swedish political geography... It is difficult to understand the difference between "city" and city, sister cities and twin cities. I give up, do what you know. --Infovarius (talk) 16:44, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

The urban areas are not political at all, that is the point. They are statistical, almost nothing else. These statistical entities have some influence. Setting up a building inside an urban area demands more red tape. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 17:17, 13 December 2015 (UTC)