Wikidata:Property proposal/DEFAULTSORT

DEFAULTSORT edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sister projects

Not done

Description	key used on Wikimedia projects to sort pages within a category
Represents	Template:DEFAULTSORT (Q6153098)
Data type	Monolingual text
Example 1	The Expendables (Q206374) → `Expendables, The` (English)
Example 2	Angela Merkel (Q567) → `Merkel, Angela` (Español)
Example 3	La Nouvelle Justine (Q3211134) → `Nouvelle Justine, La` (French)

Motivation edit

There was such a property till the end of 2015 but I got it deleted because the datatype would not allow one to specify the target language back then. Now that this is possible, we can probably have a property doing this again. It will be very nice not to have to deal with this on Wikipedias. Thierry Caro (talk) 20:16, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Comment Wouldn't this be more a per-script thing than per-language? The actual sorting may differ by language (see en:Alphabetical order#Language-specific conventions) but the string sorted on should be the same for every language in that script, no? I guess if there were differences in the name between languages then that would justify different sort strings. Hmmm. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:58, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per Arthur, better to keep such things locally 4ever, we can't urge that all Wikimedia sites to use same such one config for one stuff. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:53, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No need to duplicate the creation and deletion of the same property multiple times David (talk) 12:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226: I didn't actually oppose this - I do see a need for this for auto-generated lists - there wouldn't be anything at all on the local wiki other than the listeria (or equivalent) template, so it wouldn't know how to sort for example a list of German heads of state. I'm just wondering if string datatype would be fine after all rather than monolingual string. But one way or the other I think something like this is needed. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:35, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In principle I support having a property like this, but this needs more elaboration, difficult to propose/vote on/create a property if not even the datatype is at least clearly considered. Also: Which rules shall be followed for the values? Should multiple be possible? Then what qualifier to use for that? I hope the best but often it doesn't work out too well to settle such answers in proposal discussions and after creation nobody cares anymore to think about how to actually use the property and we get a mess. --Marsupium (talk) 01:07, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Better to store things like this on each project. --Yair rand (talk) 02:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose I see and welcome the need but this should better be solved algorithmically . Sorting rules are complex and specific to languages, but still they are rules that can be expressed in code. Better raise a MediaWiki/Wikibase feature request instead. -- JakobVoss (talk) 06:54, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support c:template:Creator could really use DEFAULTSORT in english. We make do with family name (P734) and given name (P735), that work for people that have standard names, but some people's name do not fit well into fists name / last name model and we still need to know how to sort them on multi-language project like Commons. --Jarekt (talk) 03:20, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it would be good to consolidate c:Commons:Sorting of categories named after people and think about en:WP:NAMESORT, de:WP:SORT and equivalent rules from other projects or agree on an already established set of rules from some library or so first. --Marsupium (talk) 01:40, 27 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support Should be useful e.g. for Wikisource to sort in the same way as Wikipedia in the same language. JAn Dudík (talk) 20:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

this is required to sort SPARK query output edit

hi! DEFAULTSORT and language translationd are available in most wikipedias. if englisch wikipedia is using a sh german wikipedia most probably will use sch. handling with people having characters from eastern, nordic countries it is a sign of respect to use the native variants for sort. some languages mit have multiple variants: in Iceland given names are used in catalogs; in yiddisch a / more HEBR versions can be used beside a YIVO variant.
let's Start simple with the first step. regsrds gangleri aka lery raynhart 11:21, 23 February 2022 (UTC) 88.128.88.112