Wikidata:Property proposal/average and maximum depth

average and maximum depth edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

Not done

Description	Properties for average and maximum depth of a body of water
Data type	Quantity
Allowed units	metre (Q11573), foot (Q3710)
Example	Lake Huron (Q1383) average depth → 59 m maximum depth → 229 m

Motivation

That'd be two properties, one for average depth and another for maximum depth, which is common data for bodies of water, mainly lakes, and which are included in e.g. Template:Infobox body of water (Q5642502) and Template:Infobox lake (Q5825790).

Lately vertical depth (P4511) was created, but this property unfortunately makes no distinction between average and maximum depth. So it's hard if not impossible to tell what its current values for lake items are really about (see Property talk:P4511#Average or maximum depth?). Easiest solution seems to be to introduce separate properties with explicit labels in order to start clearing up body of water related uses of P4511. Another option'd be to use average/maximum value qualifiers, but I suspect this'd make data entry and queries overly complicated. I also didn't find any sufficient qualifers at the moment. 90.191.81.65 19:15, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support David (talk) 07:31, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I prefer the solution with qualifier criterion used (P1013), see for example on Lake Constance (Q4127) or Müggelsee (Q694789). --Pasleim (talk) 16:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Use criterion used (P1013) per Pasleim. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:26, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Deror avi (talk) 15:53, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Andber08 (talk) 07:06, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Pasleim's example looks decent. I've used this solution to fix a few values of P4511 for now. Also in a meanwhile I've studied that quering values by qualifer value isn't as complicated as I thought, though it seems there's very little use for that sort of scheme on Wikipedia side so far. So I'm kind of less motivated to introduce these properties now. Either ways, hopefully the outcome of this proposal decides which way it should be, and then thousands of uses of P4511 that currently need fixing, can be processed accordingly. 90.191.81.65 08:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Pasleim. (Also: please use one {{Property proposal}} for each property you want to create, ideally on different pages). − Pintoch (talk) 15:56, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Per comments. Micru (talk) 07:59, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Late comment: The example shown for Lake Constance (Q4127) indicates clearly the ergonomic weakness of current solution, e.g. the need of two separate inputs instead of one, both for maximum depth and for average depth. Lot of extra work! This is important observation if one intends to insert values for thousands (or tens of thousands) lakes - which could happen for countries like Finland, Sweden, Canada, Russia, etc. Also, in cases where editors have not specified the second input (maximum or average) like in Müggelsee (Q694789) case, the community needs better definitions e.g. stating what the inserted value represents. Without specific title nor definition this generates an ambiguity of the values inserted. This is the second major weakness of the current approach. Thus I see the value of user 90.191.81.65's proposition. --Paju~wikidatawiki (talk) 00:23, 20 October 2018 (UTC) (my local username for WD)[reply]