Wikidata:Property proposal/image with frame

image with frame

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

Done: image with frame (P7420) (Talk and documentation)

Description	media file of painting or other 2D artwork with its frame or more of its surroundings included
Data type	Commons media file
Domain	paintings, other 2d artworks
Example 1	Self-Portrait with Fur-Trimmed Robe (Q2546309) → File:Autorretrato Durero Munich 03.jpg
Example 2	Portrait of Madame de Verninac (Q3399485) → File:Portrait de madame de Verninac by David Louvre RF1942-16 n1.jpg
Example 3	Albertine i politilægens venteværelse (Q2831725) → File:Christian Krohg - Albertine i politilegens venteværelse - IMG 9789- national gallery oslo.jpg
Planned use	add to paintings from c:Category:Paintings with frames
Formatter URL	https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:$1
See also	image (P18)

Motivation

Proposal following discussion with Jane023 and others about frames at Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings#Format. Please add more samples (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 08:13, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support Thanks for creating this. I am now wondering if it is only useful for paintings with frames. I can imagine in the case of sculpture, you might want an image of the whole gallery, and for historic events such as movements of large paintings, you might want a picture of it in transit. So this property could be in use more than once when paintings go on show in exhibitions and they are hung next to a copy or pendant or some other interesting combination. Jane023 (talk) 08:19, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Jane023: I'm a bit hesitant about including 3d works. To some extent, these tend to include surroundings. How should we delimit them? I'd tend not to include them. --- Jura 08:43, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - It has to do with context. So you could have this property on an exhibition history statement, or you could have this property as a qualifier on the image statement (if you are just including the frame). Consider this as an example of a pendant pair in an exhibition location: File:Cornelis Janssens van Ceulen - Jasper Schade and his Wife Cornelia Strick 20180716 058.jpg. You could just include the image with frame for each portrait separately, but having the pendant painting also showing in the image adds important context that the frame alone doesn't show. Jane023 (talk) 08:51, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Jane023: I think the above sample would be covered. With 3d works I meant sculptures. --- Jura 09:01, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support David (talk) 15:05, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Very valuable, a) to have the additional link to a painting, showing its frame; and b) to take such images as far as possible out of the regular stream of P18 links. Jheald (talk) 15:46, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't see much advantage of this proposed property compared to adding a second image (P18) with applies to part (P518)picture frame (Q860792) qualifier with normal rank and setting the image (P18) without frame to preferred rank so that one gets the version without frame on retrieval unless queried specifically. But I don't think it is harmful to have this property either. If it gets created the other modelling should be ported and this property documented at Wikidata:WikiProject Visual arts/Item structure. --Marsupium (talk) 13:06, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I will try to do the porting. BTW, it should include the frame, not reproduce only the frame (what "applies to part=picture frame" might suggest). --- Jura 13:14, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]