Wikidata:Property proposal/uses natural resource

uses natural resource

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Done: raw material processed (P10672) (Talk and documentation)

Description	raw material processed or a natural resource converted or consumed by a factory or industrial process, to manufacture a product, or to deliver energy. Aliases: natural resource used, intermediate good used
Represents	Any factory, industry, industrial process, machine, or production flow. Not to be confused with product components, that use made from material (P186) instead.
Data type	Item
Domain	physical goods like raw material, delving material, natural resource, intermediate goods that are consumed or converted in an (industrial) proces: any instance of primary commodity (Q15075845), delving material (Q2518864), natural resource (Q188460), intermediate good (Q3955017) any physical raw material such as e.g. cotton (Q11457), wool (Q42329), coal (Q24489), iron ore (Q191552), petroleum (Q22656) only use physical materials that are converted or consumed in the process; energy should be documented as source of energy (P618) or powered by (P516), tools should be documented as uses (P2283)
Allowed values	Any instance of primary commodity (Q15075845), delving material (Q2518864), natural resource (Q188460), intermediate good (Q3955017)
Example 1	Cotonnière des Flandres (Q108219788) raw material processed cotton (Q11457)
Example 2	steam engine (Q12760) natural resource used coal (Q24489) Should use source of energy (P618) instead.
Example 3	nuclear power plant (Q134447) natural resource used uranium (Q1098) Should use source of energy (P618) instead.
Example 4	steam locomotive (Q171043) raw material processed water (Q283). This example is OK because water (Q283) is processed into steam (Q3251738) as by-product (P2821) by heating (source of energy (P618) coal (Q24489)) and extracting the kinetic energy (Q46276).
Example 5	hydroelectric power station (Q15911738) natural resource used water (Q283). This example is probably NOK, because water (Q283) is not consumed in this case, nor converted; only the potential energy (Q155640) is converted in kinetic energy (Q46276).
Example 6	blast furnace (Q181485) raw material processed iron ore (Q191552)
Example 7	oil refinery (Q12353044) raw material processed petroleum (Q22656)
Example 8	Volvo Cars (Q215293) raw material processed sheet steel (Q100268447)
Example 9	sugar refinery (Q227857) raw material processed sugarcane (Q36940), sugar beet (Q151964)
Source	Example: w:nl:Wikipedia:GLAM/Industriemuseum Gent/Wiki Café/2021-09-02/ListeriaBot/Query
Planned use	Documenting any industrial or chemical process (not the product) Documenting 74 textile factories that process natural fibers into diverse textile products Special:WhatLinksHere/Q106604493 w:nl:Wikipedia:GLAM/Industriemuseum Gent/Wiki Café/2021-09-02/ListeriaBot/Query Other factories, industrial processes, and machines can use this new property to document the raw materials they use. Could be used in environmental projects about natural resource use, and raw materials (UN Sustainable Development Goals, climate change effects).
Number of IDs in source	100000s of items
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
See also	Other related properties, like: uses (P2283): item or concept used by the subject or in the operation (see also instrument [P1303] and armament [P520]) made from material (P186): material the subject or the object is made of or derived from (do not confuse with P10672 which is used for processes) by-product (P2821): product of a chemical or industrial process, of secondary economic value by-product of (P2822): chemical or industrial process which produces the item as a by-product product or material produced or service provided (P1056): material or product produced by an organization, industry, facility, or process manufacturer (P176): (main or final) manufacturer or producer of this product powered by (P516): equipment or engine used by the subject to convert a source or energy into mechanical energy source of energy (P618): describes the source of energy an animated object (machine or animal) uses fabrication method (P2079): method, process or technique used to grow, cook, weave, build, assemble, manufacture the item
Wikidata project	Transport and vehicles WikiProjects WikiProject Agriculture Kathedralen van de industrie (Q106604493) Documenting industrial processes

Motivatie

I am documenting 74 textile factories in Gent for the WikiProject Kathedralen van de industrie (Q106604493), and have already a huge list of statements, but I can't register what type of raw material those factories were processing: e.g. cotton (Q11457), flax (Q47089651), jute (Q107211), hemp fiber (Q13414920), etc.

made from material (P186) is a similar property, but it describes the components of a finished product, not the input material for a factory or an industrial process. Geertivp (talk) 17:00, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Daniel Mietchen (talk) 21:28, 15 May 2018 (UTC) Gregor Hagedorn (talk) 15:38, 23 September 2018 (UTC) Ainali (talk) 08:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Michael Cieslik (talk) 13:52, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Pdehaye (talk) 00:50, 16 February 2019 (UTC) Cassandreces (talk) 17:22, 19 February 2019 (UTC) Pauljmackay (talk) 18:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC) Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject Sustainable Development Ainali (talk) 22:22, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment I think this makes sense, however I am not sure on the phrasing "natural resource" - to me that indicates something that's pulled out of the natural landscape like coal or water, not a farmed commodity like cotton. I do agree we don't seem to have an existing property that quite matches this meaning, other than the very generic uses (P2283). ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

  I could also agree on the term "raw material processed" for the new property. An alias could as well be "commodity", or "resource". The uses (P2283) property is documenting the tools, instruments, and machines used in a manufacturing process, not the raw materials consumed during the production process. The outgoing products can be documented as product or material produced or service provided (P1056) and by-product (P2821). Geertivp (talk) 17:50, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

  This would allow to completely document the material flow for any industrial processes - example: Geertivp (talk) 20:46, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

(industrial process, machine, or factory) - (raw material processed) - (raw material as input for the process)
(industrial process, machine, or factory) - product or material produced or service provided (P1056) - (wanted product as primary target)
(industrial process, machine, or factory) - by-product (P2821) - (secondary product, or any waste product as "colatoral damage")
(industrial process, machine, or factory) - uses (P2283) - (tool to drive the process, machine, or factory)
(industrial process, machine, or factory) - powered by (P516)/source of energy (P618) - (energy to drive the process, machine, or factory)

Overview of process with input, output, tools and energy

	uses (P2283) fabrication method (P2079) ⇓
(raw material processed) ⇒	(industrial or chemical process)	⇒ product or material produced or service provided (P1056) ⇒ by-product (P2821)
	⇑ powered by (P516) source of energy (P618)

•  Support (and I think I prefer "raw material used") Ainali (talk) 22:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
•  Support I also think this makes sense. I could see this property being used being used across a lot of disciplines - arts, architecture, industrial design, urban planning, among others. The way Ainali laid it out makes sense. I favor that phrasing too. Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:37, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
•  Comment I think it's a good idea to develop this further, but I'm not really convinced by the approach (both in terms of domain and values of the proposed property).
  If one wouldn't just use uses (P2283), maybe some samples could be covered by a property "material transformed".
  hydroelectric power station (Q15911738) could use "water" directly with P2283 (current values could be improved: Q15911738#P2283). How should sheet steel (Q100268447) be a "natural resource" (current sample 8 above)?
  Further, it's unclear what benefit there is to list for every company in an industry each time the same "uses" (e.g. sample #8 Volvo Cars (Q215293), sample #1 Cotonnière des Flandres (Q108219788)). Isn't it preferable to describe the activity of a company or industry and then link the activity to the relevant items with uses (P2283) (or another property)? --- Jura 12:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

  uses (P2283) is only used for "permanent, installed, fixed asset, longterm" tools; not for "consumable, transient, billable, metered, cost based" resources. The property I am proposing is to be used as resource for instances related to processes. In sample #8 sheet steel (Q100268447) is not a "natural resource" but a "raw material used". I have already documented the type of activity for the industry, using field of work (P101), but I can't currently document the raw materials consumed. "material transformed" could be an alias for the requested property? Geertivp (talk) 13:52, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Where did you drawn that restriction for P2283 from? Another problem is that "water" (Q283) in a hydroplant isn't really consumed or transformed. --- Jura 16:21, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

    If we look at the examples of Property:P2283#P1855, a painter (Q1028181) does not eat ones paintbrush (Q193897). This is my conclusion that uses (P2283) could not be used for consumable resources, but only for assets. I can agree with you that a hydroelectric power station (Q15911738) does not consume water (Q283) neither, so we could drop that example. But I believe that the new property still holds its reason to exist? I thank you to be critical. This is how we can define the new property properly, without any confusion. It is only by discussing, brainstorming, and reflection that we can arrive at a clear definition. Geertivp (talk) 16:58, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

  • The item of that sample (Q1028181#P2283) has "paint" as well. Still, I still like the idea to separate "consumables" from others. Can we also remove Volvo Cars (Q215293) and Cotonnière des Flandres (Q108219788) or replace them with items for their industry? BTW, not that it matters for the proposal, but I added uses (P2283) to tennis (Q847) rather than tennis player (Q10833314). --- Jura 20:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

•  Comment I am not sure about the definition: a cheese factory uses milk and rennet to produce the cheese, but this is made from material (P186) right? And the same with wood for paper? So this would be used for the fuel that keeps the factory going? Ciell (talk) 21:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

  Well, no. made from material (P186) wouldn't be put on the factory, but on the cheese. So the values might be the same in some cases, but used on items in different parts of the production chain. Ainali (talk) 21:23, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

  For fuel we would use source of energy (P618). The new property is only required for real consumable resources, which are converted during the production process. Geertivp (talk) 07:10, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

•  Comment Would every electronic device have electricity as a value? AntisocialRyan (Talk) 17:54, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

  For energy source we would use the other property source of energy (P618). And in practice, for most electronic devices, adding that property would be considered as an abuse, and a pollution of the database. But if some special electronic device would use e.g. source of energy (P618) hydrogen (Q556) this could be worthwhile to know... Geertivp (talk) 08:34, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• What's the reason to include Volvo Cars (Q215293) and Cotonnière des Flandres (Q108219788) instead of items about their activity or industry? --- Jura 12:49, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

  For items of their activity (products) we would use the property made from material (P186) instead. This is really the point of requesting a new property for a factory or a process. This is why I explicitly included those examples to try to make the requirements really clear. A factory or a process is using raw materials, together with energy (source of energy (P618)) and tools (uses (P2283)), while a product is composed of (multiple) raw material(s). Geertivp (talk) 13:52, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Both items are about specific business that may have several factories or processes, not about a class of factories. Why not use the proposed property on such classes instead? --- Jura 14:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

    The property "raw material processed" is applicable both to classes of industry, and for specific factories. Example: textile industry in general might use any kind of coton, wool, flax, jute, hemp, etc. while one specific factory might only use coton, and another only wool or flax, etc. Geertivp (talk) 20:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Also, products use made from material (P186) (sample: car), but I don't think that applies to activities like "car production". --- Jura 17:27, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

    I would go for the following statements: Geertivp (talk) 09:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Jerry can 20 l (Q48753447) made from material (P186) sheet steel (Q100268447)
motor car (Q1420) made from material (P186) sheet steel (Q100268447)
car manufacturing (Q108428104) (raw material processed) sheet steel (Q100268447)
car manufacturing (Q108428104) product or material produced or service provided (P1056) motor car (Q1420)
car manufacturing (Q108428104) fabrication method (P2079) robot welding (Q2327264)
car manufacturing (Q108428104) uses (P2283) robot (Q11012)
car manufacturing (Q108428104) source of energy (P618) electricity (Q12725)
car manufacturing (Q108428104) powered by (P516) electric motor (Q72313)

•  Weak oppose Even though I think most of the examples are wrong and should use source of energy (P618) and uses (P2283) instead, I understand the need for a more specific property to use for chemical processes for example. This proposal is not that specific though. /ℇsquilo 15:45, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

  Negative examples can help to document the new property that we want to create. I have striped out example 2 and 3. I have added a new good example 9. Geertivp (talk) 10:03, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

•  Oppose per comments of Jura. I also prefer creating items for the activity and there describe it in details using existing properties.--So9q (talk) 07:30, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

  This is exactly why we need the new property (raw material processed) which is currently missing. We cannot currently document the source material for an (industrial) process -- see the example above about car manufacturing (Q108428104). Geertivp (talk) 10:04, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

  There seems not be an agreement for creating a new property? As a reasonable alternative we might change and extend the meaning, usage, and the description of made from material (P186) to allow it to be used also for processes in addition to products. Although this would not completely match with https://schema.org/material and there does clearly not exist a https://schema.org/process (I have searched for it...)? Should we choose for a (generic) object-oriented model (allowing to use the existing property made from material (P186) for both products and processes) instead of creating a new property to describe processes? Is there any further feedback from the community? Geertivp (talk) 20:46, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

•  Support About the terminology, maybe "raw material processed" or "processes raw material" is clearer? --Sam.Donvil (talk) 14:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

 Support - In the past and still today, raw material was often the reason that different types of 'businesses' existed together so that they could use the raw material to make different products (e.g. breweries and distilleries often existed together, often also a farm, because brewing waste was fodder for the oxen). OR because they needed certain raw materials for the production of genever, they also started to produce that raw material themselves (to make genever, you need yeast, which is why there are sometimes yeast factories near to genever distilleries) OR the process is the same but the raw materials are different (distilling is also the process for making vinegar, which is why there are often vinegar distilleries and gin distilleries together).

It could really be interesting for history researchers to investigate the evolutions, relationships and so on between the raw material and the production process. Therefore, it would be interesting to be able to define these elements. Ingehuskens (talk) 08:23, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 Strong support Another clear reason why we need this new property: leather crafting (Q1186844) can't properly express that leather (Q286) is processed as a resource in its process. Wikidata constraints are highlighting here that made from material (P186) is inappropriate in this situation. Geertivp (talk) 23:44, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

•  Weak support Nepalicoi (talk) 08:40, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

 Strong support We could better use the label "raw material processed". Geertivp (talk) 09:11, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Ainali, ArthurPSmith, Geertivp, Will (Wiki Ed), Jura1, Ciell:, @AntisocialRyan, Esquilo, So9q, Sam.Domvil, Ingehuskens, Nepalicoi:  Done: raw material processed (P10672) —MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 17:09, 21 April 2022 (UTC)