Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/SLiuBot 2

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

@Stevenliuyi:

Not done per Vogone's advice, stale request. If you want to make it approved, just reopen it.--GZWDer (talk) 10:54, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

SLiuBot 2

SLiuBot (talk • contribs • new items • new lexemes • SUL • Block log • User rights log • User rights • xtools)
Operator: Stevenliuyi (talk • contribs • logs)

Task/s: import date of birth (P569) and date of death (P570) from ~~Wikipedias and other sources~~ China Biographical Database (Q13407958)

Function details: I've already made several test edits (e.g. Lu Xun (Q23114), Li Bai (Q7071), Qin Shi Huangdi (Q7192)), which imported birth/death dates from zhwiki (zh:Template:Bd). I also plan to add these data from other Wikipedias later. --Stevenliuyi (talk) 02:16, 30 May 2013 (UTC) Now I think it's better to only import the data from external reliable sources, not Wikipedias, as some comments mentioned below. --Stevenliuyi (talk) 16:51, 5 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SamoaBot 26 can import them from it.wiki :-) but we should pay attention to these comments... --Ricordi samoa 02:28, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your information. --Stevenliuyi (talk) 18:40, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note I've changed the task, now I plan to import birth/death dates not only from Wikipedias, but also from other sources. I've made a test run (see Q13407963, Q13407964, Q13407966) to import these data from China Biographical Database (Q13407958). --Stevenliuyi (talk) 18:40, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support import from CBDB, but

Oppose import from Wikipedias, pr. discussion at Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/SamoaBot 26. Byrial (talk) 21:15, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since the community has doubts about using Wikipedias as sources for the dates, I won't import the dates from Wikipedias unless the community reaches consensus. At the moment I want to focus on importing the data from external sources. --Stevenliuyi (talk) 10:05, 1 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support CBDB, but I would like a more precise source than "imported from CBDB. To me using CBDB ID (P497) in the source is fine, but otherwise, I would suggest to wait until we have the IRI datatype. --Zolo (talk) 10:51, 1 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I see that the proposed guideline is

stated in (P248): China Biographical Database (Q13407958)
CBDB ID (P497): CBDB ID

point in time (P585): date retrieved.

--Zolo (talk) 07:02, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will follow the guideline. --Stevenliuyi (talk) 11:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose importing any non-trivial statements from a source of questionable reliability. In particular, date of birth/death is non-trivial data and Wikipedia is a perfect example of an unreliable source. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the DBCD but the onus should be on the bot operator to demonstrate that the source is sufficiently reliable. Pichpich (talk) 17:13, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support import from CBDB given the clarification below. I still oppose any import from Wikipedia or any other source that has not previously been formally approved as sufficiently reliable. Pichpich (talk) 19:23, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose to birth/death dates as per Pichpich.--Micru (talk) 17:32, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, I won't import the dates from Wikipedias anymore. As for CBDB, it's definitely a reliable source since it's developed by three renowned institutions in China (Peking University), Taiwan (Academia Sinica) and the United States (Harvard University). --Stevenliuyi (talk) 17:40, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, just a few things:

the database also provides gender, I think that could be added too (and if the current source is "imported from Wikipedia", it could be replaced by this one).
I do not know how exactly the database is structured but I see that the main section of entires like this only contain one source. Does it mean that all the entry's data were imported from the same source ? If so, is there any change we can also import this source to Wikidata ?
Any idea about "database copyright" in Taiwan, where the CBDB seems to be hosted ? Is there any chance we can run into the same issues as in Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/SamoaBot 32 ? --Zolo (talk) 19:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(1) Yes the gender could also be added; (2) CBDB collects data from many sources (a full list is available at [1]). I think we don't need to study every single source it uses, as long as we only import uncopyrightable facts. (3) I just noticed there is a thing called database right (Q688416) (which is different from copyright). I did some research, it seems this right doesn't exist in Taiwan. I found an article [2] says that under Taiwan's law databases only have copyright when the data meet the threshold of creativity/originality (similar as US law). --Stevenliuyi (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think this request should be considered as approved, as all objections have been addressed, and the discussion is now inactive. --Zolo (talk) 07:59, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A quick question: I found a downloadable standalone database file on the CBDB website [3]. I want to use this file to import data, but I don't know which date I should put in point in time (P585) (date retrieved)? The date when I really retrieve the data (June 2013), or the date when the data in this file was updated (January 2012)? --Stevenliuyi (talk) 12:53, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would say the date the date when the data in the file was lasst updated: if you give "CBDB entry X, date rertieved Y" as source, the data should really be those that were retrieved from entry X at time Y.

By the way, it has been proposed to use a dedicated property for retrieval date: Wikidata:Property proposal/References#date retrieved.

--Zolo (talk) 14:08, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Question would it be possible to add

educated at (P69): jinshi (Q420477) + year somewhere ? There seems to be a consistent format for that [4], [5].
Eight Banner register (P470) (you already imported many of them from Wikipedia but if it would be better if it was sourced from CBDB) [6]. --Zolo (talk) 20:17, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can import Eight Banner register (P470) from CBDB. As for educated at (P69), it seems a little weird to use this property to indicate jinshi, because it's not a school but a title for those who passed an exam (use academic degree (P512) instead?) Besides, there are better sources for jinshi, which also include the rank a person get in the exam. We can import these data later when the numeric datatype is available. --Stevenliuyi (talk) 05:00, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, actually I was wondering which property to use for jinshi, I had forgotten about academic degree (P512). But if there are better sources, it is better to wait for them. --Zolo (talk) 05:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Any updates? Legoktm (talk) 06:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.