Wikidata talk:WikiProject Music

Latest comment: 28 days ago by Lewis Hulbert in topic New property proposal: VK track ID

Omit catalog prefix in P528 (catalog code)

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Hi, all,

I recently read over an old property chat discussion regarding P528 (catalog code) after noticing how inconsistently values in P528 are applied to musical works. For example, when browsing Mozart's works, you can find many variations in how editors have entered codes: K.###, K###, K ###, KV###, ###, etc.

I will repeat my thoughts from the property chat here: Structured data in Wikidata should be language agnostic. Because abbreviations for certain catalog numbers (such as the Köchel catalog) are different depending on the language (German: KV, English: K), I would argue that the prefix should be omitted from P528. As others have stated (in the property chat), it is also redundant if the qualifier P972 (catalog) is used correctly.

Please chime in if you have thoughts on this. The variety of approaches to using P528 make it difficult to query a specific catalog number. Thanks! Fuchsiaflute (talk) 17:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Catalog codes are exported to infoboxes in wikipedias and prefixes are important to be filled in, otherwise it will be displayed there as just a list of numbers (some works have 3+ numbers from different catalogues). And in sources these codes are mostly specified with a letter prefix, rather than without it. In the case you described - the correct approach is to choose and stick to a single approach for each catalog where several designations are used. Solidest (talk) 19:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
When an infobox sees Eine kleine Nachtmusik (Q12025)catalog code (P528)525catalog (P972)Köchel catalogue (Q162478) and sees Köchel catalogue (Q162478)short name (P1813)K. (English), it should be able to display K. 525. It’s just a matter of some lines of Lua code someone needs to write. (I know, this is the theory, and the practice may be that there is nobody who’s able and willing to write those lines of Lua code.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 00:00, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you both for the input! I now understand the current issue Solidest described with the infoboxes (thanks for pointing that out!). However, I would still argue that the prefix is not a part of the code, but rather a separate designation of what catalog is being referenced. That's partially why there is a separate property for the catalog (P972).
I realize the example I'm about to use is a bit of a stretch, but if you look at the tables in the Wikipedia entry Köchel catalogue, each code is listed only by its number because the prefix is already implied by the label in that column. It's done the same way in tables in Grove. If P972 is properly applied as a qualifier, the data is already there stating the prefix should be "K" or "K6" (albeit via a few intermediary statements that Tacsipacsi described).
As they also implied in their message, it is a separate issue that the metadata not being used to its full potential in the infoboxes. I understand leaving out prefixes now would not solve that issue, but I think it would make the data cleaner both for querying and for implementing in (hopefully more thought-out) infoboxes in the future. Fuchsiaflute (talk) 13:41, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

New property for Music Mood

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Hello Everyone. I've recently had discussions with @Moebeus and @Dmitriy with regards to creating a new property for Music mood (Humeur musicale in french).

The property proposal is here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work#music_mood

I will need your help and support. So, as a first step, I'm asking for your feedback.

The music industry, notably digital listening platforms and audiovisual music supervisors have long used the notion of Mood to add rich description to an audio recording (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3302947), music track with vocals (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q55850593) or music track without lyrics (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q55850643).

It is now possible for music fans to create Mood centric playlists (https://www.moodplayl.ist/). The industry DDEX-MEAD standard is involved in trying to better standardize this concept (https://kb.ddex.net/implementing-each-standard/media-enrichment-and-description-(mead)/{{).

I sustain the idea that creators would be better served by crowdsourced dynamics, such as the one offered by Wikidata to capture the moods for their recordings.

My research has identified several Mood systems initiatives : the Greek physician-philosopher Hippocrates humors, University of California at Berkeley Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (Cowen et al., 2020), psychologist Robert Plutchik’s emotion theory, DDEX-MEAD (Media Enrichment and Description) industry consortium standard, simbals mood and audio descriptors, Deezer Flow dynamic mood playlists, Cyanite.ai multi-label score based classifier, SoundCloud’s Musiio tag system and the Musicovery research initiative. Other initiatives include crowdsourced user-generated mood lists or extensive mood lists, like the AllMusic mood exploration tool (https://www.allmusic.com/moods).

For now, I’m proposing to be synthetic and have narrowed down our potential mood list to a two dimensional system with four moods and its complementary system of eight primary moods. These currently do not exist in the form of Wikidata items. While emotions part of the emotion theory (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9357054) and basic emotion (in the form of common noun), understood as emotional state (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q41537118) exists, these are not adjective attributes (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q34698) and therefore do not suit the notion of music mood present in the music industry.

The following terms could constitute adjective attributes, be in phase with the industry’s Mood concept and become Wikidata first items for the new Property :

System of eight primary moods

adjective / noun / FR / (note)

  • energetic / energy / énergique / (also corresponds to an up tempo)
  • happy / joyeux
  • romantic / romantique  
  • powerful / puissant
  • angry / aggressif
  • dark / sombre
  • sad / triste
  • calm / calme / (also corresponds to a down tempo)

The new property could be defined as follows :

Pxxxx Music Mood - adjective attribute used to describe a primary mood relevant to an audio recording (musical or not)

The property would have to be linked to a Wikidata primary qualification item softly constrained by the following list : energetic, happy, romantic, powerful, angry, dark, sad, calm

The list is translated in french : énergique, joyeux, romantique, puissant, agressif, sombre, triste, calme

Other moods (Q) could be added but would not be part of the primary category.

The property proposal is here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work#music_mood

Thanks in advance. Youyouca (talk) 13:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

  WikiProject Music has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.

Is there a complete, 100% correct model item?

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Between musical work/composition (Q105543609), music track with vocals (Q55850593) and single (Q134556), I don't know how to model them properly. Looking at random items is no good as I suspect nearly all of them are incomplete or incorrect. Is there a fully accurate set of items for a specific band or album that I can use as a template? —Xezbeth (talk) 14:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&hidepatrolled=0&size-mode=min&username=Moebeus&offset=20241012203030%7C2326960811&limit=500
Honestly just pick any one of them Trade (talk) 04:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
To be more specific, there is Come to Brazil (Q130254391) and Come to Brazil (Q130536570), an audio track and a single respectively. Even if I made a musical work/composition (Q105543609) item to go with it, is it correct that the single item isn't linked to the song item at all? —Xezbeth (talk) 06:17, 16 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes. Only things that should be linked to the composition are the tracks in the tracklist Trade (talk) 13:34, 16 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Property proposal for Spirit of Metal IDs

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Hi! Please check out this property prosposal. Horcrux (talk) 10:33, 16 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I support the IDs. Thanks for your work! Kdkeller (talk) 18:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Music genres

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Could somebody create a new visualization of music genres like the one on the right but more comprehensive up-to-date and if possible interactive? It could be used in c:Music genres – a new page which shows music genres sorted by Inception date set in Wikidata. Maybe it could also make use/visualize categories. The genres should closer to each other if they are similar such as influenced by two genres nearby. Prototyperspective (talk) 10:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Prototyperspective: I came out with these two queries, which only consider the 150 most "popular" genres on Wikidata (i.e. the ones with the highest number of incoming links).
#defaultView:Graph
SELECT ?x ?xLabel ?y ?yLabel WHERE {
  {
    SELECT ?x ?xLabel WHERE {
      VALUES ?xClass { wd:Q11921029 wd:Q188451 }
      ?x wdt:P31 ?xClass ;
         rdfs:label ?xLabel .
      ?anySubj ?anyProp ?x .
      FILTER (lang(?xLabel) = "en")
      hint:SubQuery hint:runOnce true .
    }
    GROUP BY ?x ?xLabel
    ORDER BY DESC(COUNT(?anySubj))
    LIMIT 150
  }
  UNION
  {
    VALUES ?x { wd:Q12326776 wd:Q465978 } # forcing some genres to appear in the results (for better connecting the graph nodes)
    ?x rdfs:label ?xLabel .
    FILTER (lang(?xLabel) = "en")
    hint:SubQuery hint:runOnce true .
  }
  hint:Prior hint:runFirst "true".
  
  {
    SELECT ?y ?yLabel WHERE {
      VALUES ?yClass { wd:Q11921029 wd:Q188451 }
      ?y wdt:P31 ?yClass ;
         rdfs:label ?yLabel .
      ?anySubj ?anyProp ?y .
      FILTER (lang(?yLabel) = "en")
      hint:SubQuery hint:runOnce true .
    }
    GROUP BY ?y ?yLabel
    ORDER BY DESC(COUNT(?anySubj))
    LIMIT 150
  }
  UNION
  {
    VALUES ?y { wd:Q12326776 wd:Q465978 } # forcing some genres to appear in the results (for better connecting the graph nodes)
    ?y rdfs:label ?yLabel .
    FILTER (lang(?yLabel) = "en")
    hint:SubQuery hint:runOnce true .
  }
  
  ?x ?p ?y .
  FILTER (str(?x) != str(?y))
}
Try it!
#defaultView:BubbleChart
SELECT ?x ?xLabel (COUNT(?anySubj) as ?xCount) WHERE {
  VALUES ?xClass { wd:Q11921029 wd:Q188451 }
  ?x wdt:P31 ?xClass ;
     rdfs:label ?xLabel .
  ?anySubj ?anyProp ?x .
  FILTER (lang(?xLabel) = "en")
  hint:SubQuery hint:runOnce true .
}
GROUP BY ?x ?xLabel
ORDER BY DESC(?xCount)
LIMIT 150
Try it!

I hope they can be helpful. --Horcrux (talk) 08:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Wow these are large queries, thanks a lot! Those are interesting and are what I meant.
  1. Do you or somebody else know of a way the interactive chart can be embedded into Wikimedia pages (probably collapsed by default)? Taking a screenshot of it would be an interesting image but not be interactive. If you don't know I'll investigate because I think something like is already possible and used in Scholia for example but some feature may be needed to enable also embedding it into Wikimedia/Commons pages.
  2. If embedding the interactive version is possible it would be good that if clicking an item once would show all its subgenres (maybe right-clicking or some context menu option could also show all genres that influenced the genre that is all subclass of statements and all influenced by items). Double clicking an item to open the Wikidata item in a new tab already works.
Prototyperspective (talk) 12:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

New property proposal: VK track ID

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Too many participants in this WikiProject to use {{Ping project}}, so leaving a note about it here: Wikidata:Property_proposal/VK_track_ID. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 09:33, 25 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Return to the project page "WikiProject Music".