Johansen.fred

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Best regards! Taketa

Re : Country(P17) property edit

Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hello ! :) I want to explain you first how I proceed. I use the tool autolist2 with a request based on the index of French portals and some Wikidata properties ( if there'is claim instance of (P31) and coordinate location (P625) but not the country (P17). For the French Wikipedia the property P17 of Wikidata is used in order to ordered the geolocated subjects by categories.

There's two avantages :

We obtain statistics of located articles by countries for the French Wikipedia [1]
We can correct obvious error of coordinates using the KML. Unfortunately there's some article where the method could be wrong.

But let's see the example Q192050 I think that historic location should have the modern country in P17 but we should find a way to be the more precise for the government it was at the former time. Otourly (talk) 08:31, 26 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the information. If I understand correctly, you do agree that there are problems with the approach for some items. Which may lie in the association of a particular geolocation ("static") with a specific country (and countries are temporary, historically speaking). The approach compounds the problem when it inserts data into Event items first (which you know beforehand might be wrong), and leaves the manual evaluation to a later stage. I would still urge you to do it the other way around, namely to do the manual evaluation before inserting country(P17) data into Event items (or instances of any subclass of event)). At least when they have actual date properties (P580,P582,P585), which means that you have specific grounds for concluding that there's a semantic conflict or not. -- Regarding examples, imagine that tomorrow, a specific country were split in two, or that one of its regions became independent; the kind of approach you describe would possibly impact all the events within the geographical area of that new country, which might consist of hundreds or thousands of Wikidata items. Clearly, the country set for all these should not be invalidated when the area is given to a new country. Event items represent objects constrained in scope by both space and time, so any property, like country(P17), should not violate that scope. It's only the geolocations that might be said to "get" an association to the new country, but the Event items should from the start belong to the historical country. Hope you see my point, and thanks for your patience :-) Fred Johansen (talk) 12:53, 26 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

regarding historiography (Q50675) and science-of-history (Q1066186) edit

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion