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User talk:ValterVB

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Previous discussion was archived at User talk:ValterVB/Archive 1 on 2015-08-10.

156.201.27.6 (talkcontribs)

hi there

Query per categorie Commons imprecise di WLM

19
Summary by Epìdosis

Query e altra lista per QuickStatements create

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)
ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Stavo per rinunciarci e farlo con un foglio elettronico, poi mi è venuta l'ispirazione :)

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?wikiloves ?commons WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P2186 ?wikiloves .
  ?item wdt:P17 wd:Q38 .
  ?item wdt:P373 ?commons.
  {
    SELECT ?commons2  WHERE {
    ?item2 wdt:P2186 ?wikiloves .
    ?item2 wdt:P17 wd:Q38 .
    ?item2 wdt:P373 ?commons2.
    }
    GROUP BY ?commons2
    HAVING (COUNT(?commons2) >1)
  }
  FILTER(?commons = ?commons2)
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "it". }
}
ORDER BY ?commons2

Try it!

Se ti può servire: la seconda SELECT estrae tutti i valori di commons che sono presenti più di una volta nell'elenco degli item, poi uso questo elenco per estrarre solo gli item che hanno questo valore di commons (vedi FILTER).

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Splendido! Solo una piccola domanda: la colonna Commons non potrebbe essere direttamente un link alla categoria di Commons? Perché così mi risparmierei un po' di clic (e moltiplicato per centinaia di volte significa vari minuti!). Grazie in ogni caso, va già benissimo così!

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Al momento l'unica soluzione che mi viene in mente è quella di usare Wikidata list con ListeriaBot, l'ho preparato in User:ValterVB/Sandbox/tmp. Spostatelo pure dove vuoi e poi cancella la pagina.

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Perfetto, ho spostato in una mia sottopagina. Ultimissima domanda per WLM: escludendo gli elementi listati nella query che mi hai appena preparato ed escludendo anche gli elementi dotati di topic's main category (P910), per tutto gli altri elementi con country (P17)  Italy (Q38) e Wiki Loves Monuments ID (P2186) e Commons category (P373) ma privi di link a categoria di Commons sarebbe possibile mettere il valore della P373 come categoria di Commons? In tal modo poi si potrebbero aggiungere su Commons i commons:Template:Wikidata infobox. Credo che potrei farlo io stesso con Quickstatements, ma temo di impappinarmi clamorosamente! Grazie ancora! P.S. Prometto che poi per WLM cerco di arrangiarmi

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Non mi è molto chiaro: intendi mettere il link a commons sia come sitelink sia come P373? Non ho seguito molto ma sicuro che sia accettabile?

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Sì, sono sufficientemente sicuro: l'uso mi pare che attualmente sia mettere sia P373 sia sitelink alla categoria in assenza di P910, quando invece c'è la P910 il sitelink alla categoria si sposta, giustamente, nell'elemento della categoria. Il problema è che, se la categoria di Commons non è connessa come sitelink a Wikidata, non può avere il commons:Template:Wikidata infobox.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

La lista è pronta la posso salvare tra poco per usarla quando funziona QuickStatements. Ma prendiamo un esempio: Palazzo Chiericati (Q729773) ha Commons category (P373) uguale a Palazzo Chiericati (Vicenza), ma il problema è che quella categoria è già utilizzata in Category:Palazzo Chiericati (Vicenza) (Q30827039) quindi non si può aggiungere. Sono per casi come questi che ho dei dubbi sul riportare sia la proprietà che il sitelink alla categoria, si hanno gestioni diverse a seconda dei casi, non è molto bello.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)
Epìdosis (talkcontribs)
Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Alla vecchia maniera si direbbe "conflittato"

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

OK, allora se vuoi faccio andare io Quickstatements dopo pranzo e mi osservo direttamente i casi problematici, OK?

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Per me va bene, anche per l'altra, prima di lanciare il tutto verificane solo un paio per vedere che siano a posto. Ma a te Quickstatements funziona?

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Ora provo

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

A dire il vero mi pare che non mi si apra la pagina di QuickStatements, né su Chrome né su Firefox. Riproverò tra qualche ora

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Adesso mi pare che tutto funzioni. Bene, allora procedo io colle due ottime liste che mi hai dato. A presto!

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Allora, ho sistemato tutta la lista QuickStatements, sostituendo molte categorie di Commons colle corrispondenti più precise. Ti scrivo invece per un problemino colla prima lista, questa: i link alle categorie di Commons, purtroppo, si infrangono sul primo spazio, perché poi l'URL non viene più letto; servirebbe sostituire gli " " con "_". Hai idea di come farlo? Grazie mille e scusa ancora per il disturbo. Buona notte!

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Non ho modo di verificare ma ora dovrebbe essere come hai chiesto. Ho modificato la query per sostituire gli spazi con il trattino.

Epìdosis (talkcontribs)

Ora funziona perfettamente, grazie!

Deryni (talkcontribs)

Your editing of Kappa Crucis is incorrect. Kappa Crucis is a star, a Bayer object. You have directed Kappa Crucis to a disambiguation page. That page lead to Kappa Crucis, but also to the Jewel Box star cluster, which also is called Kappa Crucis cluster, but NOT Kappa Crucis. Please correct this. If there is need for a disambiguation page in EnWp I suggest it should be Kappa Crucis (different meanings) or what the syntax may be in EnWp, so that the Bayer object gets priority. ~~~~

ValterVB (talkcontribs)
Deryni (talkcontribs)

I was referring to Kappa Crucis (Q56640165). I can now see that you have made new entries today, for Kappa Crucis. As they are not yet finished, I'll say nothing about these. I'm quite satisfied with Kappa Crucis (Q5098429) for the star, which is unaltered, and look forward to what you will do with the other objects, so the confusion may end. Good luck! ~~~~

Infovarius (talkcontribs)

Strange. I can not imaging a single reason why en:Kappa Crucis shouldn't be a disambig (except technical _disambig_ which is an error I think)

Deryni (talkcontribs)

The star Kappa Crucis should have precedence before the disambiguation as there is only one Kappa Crucis, namely the star. The star cluster, NGC 4755, or the Jewel Box, is also called Kappa Crucis Cluster, as Kappa Crucis is the prime member of the cluster. But it is not called Kappa Crucis. Therefore there is only one Kappa Crucis, the star. Strange to have a disambiguation for one article. Well, if you are pleased to have it this way, I will not take further notice, as I mainly work in the Swedish Wikipedia. But give me this: A disambiguation for one object!? I recommend that you change "en:Kappa Crucis (star)" to "Kappa Crucis". All the best. ~~~~

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Moved en sitelink in disambiguation item and deletet set index item

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

Please restore the following items. They are all artists with paintings in the collection of the Stadtmuseum Berlin and are part of Wikidata:Dataset Imports/Previous version discussions#Berliner Malweiber, an import which was interrupted but hopefully can now be completed in the coming weeks.

Q44913967

Q44913975

Q44914018

Q44914033

Q44914040

Q44914554

Q44914569

Q44914576

Q44915133

Q44915140

Q44915173

Q44915191

Q44915196

Q44915443

Q44915452

Q44915466

Q44915473

Q44915481

Q44915489

Q44915495

Q44915758

Q44915780

Q44915786

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

No source, no sitelink, no backlink no data to understand who they are. I waited a while, then I canceled. Now if you add some reference I can restore them, but if they remain in the same state, it makes no sense to restore them

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

Information regarding the painters can be found via the import page Wikidata:Dataset Imports/Previous version discussions#Berliner Malweiber. You can follow the link to the Google doc(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MX7ULmDhcES9gXugNUqHx-D7JIkErFtZcLOzVp8a204/edit#gid=1917218514), in the Google doc there are links to paintings by the painters referenced. It is curated data provided by the Stadtmuseum. I need the items/artists restored so I can link them to the paintings and finish the data import. How can I provide references when you have deleted the items?!

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)
Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

And – may I add – I am glad you waited a while, but it would have been even more helpful if you had sent me a message to request more information, before deleting the entries. Would that not have saved everybody more time?

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

I have deleted more of 150k item it's impossible warning all the editors (and not all this items was deleted by me). It is the task of those who create the elements, respect the rules of Wikidata:Notability. Now I have undelete allt hte item, but if these item remain inthis state will be deleted again. Need that you add reference to know what we are talking about, or some connection to the painting.

List:

Hgkuper (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much for restoring the items.

I understand the notability criteria, but the current issue raises some interesting questions about how much time should be permitted before items are deleted. I intend to post my suggestion on the Wikidata mailing list, but would be interested to know what you, as a Wikidata administrator, think of them first.

As mentioned, the data – comprising painters and their paintings – have been provided by the Stadtmuseum Berlin. All the painters (and painters) were part of an exhibition at the museum in 2016. I uploaded the data in question on 2017-12-07. Some of the painters – including the 23 you deleted on 2017-12-24 – did not have GND IDs. But a few of those without IDs were not deleted. And so it was that an interested Wikidata user (via Mix'n'match) and a Wikidata bot had enough time to complement my rudimentary upload and provide IDs from other systems on 2018-01-26 (see, for example, Q44914563 and Q44915124).

I realise the painters without any external reference do not satisfy the notability criteria in the strict sense, because they have a minimal online footprint (or does "publicly available references" also include offline reference texts?), but they are notable in the sense of being items curated by a cultural heritage institution. The whole issue is made more complicated by the fact that the painters in question are all female painters whose life and works span about 350 years and who have been excluded from the historical record due to their gender.

I would suggest changing the deletion process as follows:

  1. All items that are deemed not to satisfy the notability criteria should be marked as "pending deletion" (or something similar) and the uploader should be given time to respond. I think this would be a more positive community-oriented approach than delete first and ask questions later.
  2. It is my opinion that the review period should be six months, in order to give the supporting Wikidata systems and users time to complement the data (in which case the deletion either becomes moot or the uploader has been able to argue their case successfully).

I am not sure how realistic my proposal is – perhaps I have misunderstood the process and all its complexities. Wikidata at the time of writing contains 50.291.192 items. By my calculations 1.142.667 items have been deleted since the creation of Wikidata, which represents about 2% of Wikidata.

If that is correct, then providing uploaders more time before their items are deleted should not put too much of a strain on the system. Does that sound plausible?

Thanks again for your time.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

I try to explain my pov (english isn't not my language): the problem in this specific cases is that the item was to much generic: human (Q5), sex or gender (P21), painter (Q1028181), no period of work, or place. It's impossible to do a search to check who is the person in the item. The more simple solution in this case is add a link to the list of this painters, can be a site or a book so on. For this item I have deleted them after 17 days, now I wait one month before delete items that I find not notable. 1 month is a time sufficient to complete task on a batch of items. You do not have to think about 1.1 milion of item deleted, but you have to think about the trend of not significant elements created, if we delete not notable items less quickly that the creation of them, Wikidata will fill of not notable item and we have only 57 admin, it's impossible warning all the people before deletion, and a lot of item are created by automatic system not directly connected to the users. They are the users who have to worry about the notability of objects, especially if they make massive insertions. If a job takes more than a month, something does not work and it is better to warn the administrators (sorry again for my english)

Oliviervd (talkcontribs)

Hello Walter,

You seem to have deleted over 500 items i created over weekend. I can't seem to figure out what these were about. I would appreciate it if you could shed some light on why they were deleted.. Or at least retrieve one of them so I know what they were about.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Hi, just an example of the most complete: item Q55258685 was created on June 19th with a single edit, no other edit after this date. The content of the item was:

Dutch label: Schirin Kretschmann

English description: artist

Dutch description: kunstenaar

French description:artiste

instance of (P31): human (Q5)

No other claim useful to know what the item is talking about.

ThomasPusch (talkcontribs)

Is it really sensible NOT to link a language branch category to other language branch categories? Maybe the Esperanto wikipedia should consider not to have this category at all, if it can't be linked to other language branches, but that should be discussed. Best regards -- Thomas

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

I don't understand the problem: it is a wikipedia page of a category, it's normal have IT here. Why you want delete the sitelink?

Hrodvarsson (talkcontribs)

The de-wiki and en-wiki articles are both surname articles, with identical content.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

They aren't the same: the page in de.wiki is a real disambiguation page and you can find it in de:Spezial:Begriffsklärungsseiten, the page in en.wiki, instead, is a page about the surname, it's fall under "set index articles" and you can't find it in en:Special:DisambiguationPages. In a disambiguation page it's important only the spelling, in a page about surname you can talk only about surname. See the special case of our guideline.

Hrodvarsson (talkcontribs)

De:Bindrich's content is as follows: "Bindrich ist der Familienname folgender Personen:" Emphasis on "Familienname".

It is an error on de-wiki. It should be under Kategorie:Familienname.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

We can wait that de.wiki fix the problem, otherwise the BOTs continue to make mistakes.

PMG (talkcontribs)

Q1812875 and Q21850096 - can you tell me why you unmerged this two items if both of fthem are disambigs on different wikis? All of this articles describes all ships that have name "SS Dewey

. So why did you reverted me?"

ValterVB (talkcontribs)
Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Hello. What were there? Is there any way to check title of deletd item?

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

No, only administrators can check deleted item, but below you can find the content Only label and description, no property, no reference.

  • Label: Shut the Fuck Up
  • en Description: Basshunter song
Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

How it is not meet notability criteria? It's needed item from Basshunter's list of songs.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

An item without properties can be anything, you must add properties that prove notability.

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Then looks like I forgot to add them. Can you restore item so I can look on and eventually complete it?

ValterVB (talkcontribs)
Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Thanks. I completed the item.

Superchilum (talkcontribs)

E' normale avere item dedicati a normali articoli di giornale? Es. Q57958766.

ValterVB (talkcontribs)

Se devo essere sincero non credo sia un articolo, ma non riesco a capire di che si tratta. Per ora ho lasciato un messaggio all'utente che lo ha creato poi eventualmente lo propongo per la cancellazione per avere più opinioni.

Superchilum (talkcontribs)

Ok grazie :)

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