Property talk:P411
Documentation
Formal stage in the process of attaining sainthood per the subject's religious organization
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Value type Q15978876, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Type Q5, Q16334295, Q21070598, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Item P21, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Item P569, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Item P19, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Item P841, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Conflicts with P735, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Scope, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P411#Entity types
Please add data about this person. (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item { ?item wdt:P411 ?value. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P793 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P20 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P570 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P21 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P841 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P119 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P39 [] }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P19 [] }. }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P411#Data missing
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This property is being used by:
Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
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Value martyr (Q6498826) will be automatically replaced to value martyr (Q6498826) and moved to subject has role (P2868) property. Testing: TODO list |
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Value Christian martyr (Q107013) will be automatically replaced to value Christian martyr (Q107013) and moved to subject has role (P2868) property. Testing: TODO list |
constraint report relating to Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410) edit
If instance of (P31) is a Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410) the presence of canonization status (P411) is prohibited
- see: Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410) with canonization status (P411) . Usualy there might be more possibilities:
- a) Please identify the non - ambiguation page (WD item) where the property canonization status should be moved;
"normally" no other statements should be left at the disambiguation page.
It can happen that a set of properties should be moved to another (a second) WD item, another set to a third WD item etc. - b) (recomended method:) Verify which language is a disambiguation page and separate it from the rest. Please use Gadget-labelLister.js can be activated at preferences#gadgets to remove all faulty (disambiguation) descriptions after the disambiguation page is separated: Verify the descriptions for the following languages: de, en, fr, es, pt, pt-br, ru, sv which where added by bots long time ago and take a short look at the other language descriptions.
- c) If method b) can not be used because all linked WMF-project language pages are (local) disambiguation pages please create a new WD item and add a proper description in your native language and in English.
Today 95 items are found. Thanks in advance! gangLeri לערי ריינהארט (talk) 16:38, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
- I don't feel this wrong - many disambigs list only saints, so it is possible to tag them as "beatification status"="saint", I suppose. --Infovarius (talk) 09:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Denomination qualifier? edit
Some people are Saints in some Churches, but not in others (e.g. see the infoboxes at w:Epimachus of Pelusium, w:Saint Pelagia). Can canonization status (P411): saint (Q43115) be qualified to the effect? Thanks. It Is Me Here t / c 14:41, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@Kareyac, Ricordisamoa: is Catholic saint (Q3464126) acceptable value for this property? Or it must be replaced to saint (Q43115)? This item cause many violations of value type constraint because Catholic saint (Q3464126) is not instance of canonization status (Q15978876). — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 12:51, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
- If Catholic saint (Q3464126) is saint (Q43115) only in Catholicism (Q1841), let it stay. I don't know if all Catholic saint (Q3464126) and saint (Q43115) should have canonization status (P411). I added canonization status (P411) Catholic saint (Q3464126) to all in Category:Roman Catholic saints (Q5642200) in according to preamble in Категория:Католические святые, Saint catholique and list of Catholic saints (Q6566424). What can be suggested? - Kareyac (talk) 14:30, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
Others santity recognitions edit
Can this property contain some other recognized "title" of santity like martyr (Q6498826), Confessor of the Faith (Q2354129) or passion bearer (Q2032316) ? (see some others: en:List_of_Eastern_Orthodox_saint_titles). Now, this personal attributes are as a instance of (P31) or occupation (P106) or even position held (P39), which difficults an homogeneous treatement. Is it right ? --Amadalvarez (talk) 05:14, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
Make canonization status a subproperty of sainthood edit
Moved from Talk:Q15978876
Apparently, Q3464126 (saint, "person deemed by the Catholic Church to be in Heaven, and worthy of public veneration") is a subclass of Q24841742 (Christian saint), which is a subclass of Q43115 (saint, "person who has been recognized for having an exceptional degree of holiness, sanctity, and virtue", regardless of religion).
What's rather problematic is that all of them use "canonisation status" as the defining class. Many saints, maybe most saints, have never been canonised, or even recognised by any kind of formal procedure, and the process is most closely associated with the Catholic church. And yet it looks like the property has been carelessly applied across a whole range of saints.
What makes more sense to me is a property "sainthood" (or "sanctity (status)") with "canonization status" as a subproperty for those saints that have been canonised, or alternatively, "saint canonised in the Catholic church" as a subclass of Q3464126. To get started, would it not solve a lot of problems if we renamed the current "canonization status" to just "sainthood". Rand(1,2022) (talk) 07:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Not all canonization statuses are saints. --Infovarius (talk) 20:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- [Edited] Maybe in Wikidata, but according to Wikipedia, canonization is "the declaration of a deceased person as an officially recognized saint" and Britannica is also explicit about sainthood. P.S. My suggestion of changing the current scope comes from a purely pragmatic point of view, but perhaps that goes against Wikidata policy. Regardless how we solve it, a new "sainthood" property is still required. Rand(1,2022) (talk) 11:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, in Wikidata not only saints. There are venerables, servants of God, blessed... I don't understand why should we reduce the scope. --Infovarius (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not quite following you. "in Wikidata not only saints" - which is the problem if you're going to label this 'canonisation'. "There are venerables, servants of God, blessed" - if you want to include those, too, why restrict the scope to canonisation. If anything, that would suggest a new property that is even wider in scope than both canonisation and sainthood. You could argue for 'religious recognition'. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rand(1,2022) (talk • contribs) at 12:26, 9 октября 2023 (UTC).
- I don't know all term subtleties, but the property already is used for many non-saint values. So it's you who want to change scope. --Infovarius (talk) 18:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not quite following you. "in Wikidata not only saints" - which is the problem if you're going to label this 'canonisation'. "There are venerables, servants of God, blessed" - if you want to include those, too, why restrict the scope to canonisation. If anything, that would suggest a new property that is even wider in scope than both canonisation and sainthood. You could argue for 'religious recognition'. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rand(1,2022) (talk • contribs) at 12:26, 9 октября 2023 (UTC).
- Yes, in Wikidata not only saints. There are venerables, servants of God, blessed... I don't understand why should we reduce the scope. --Infovarius (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- [Edited] Maybe in Wikidata, but according to Wikipedia, canonization is "the declaration of a deceased person as an officially recognized saint" and Britannica is also explicit about sainthood. P.S. My suggestion of changing the current scope comes from a purely pragmatic point of view, but perhaps that goes against Wikidata policy. Regardless how we solve it, a new "sainthood" property is still required. Rand(1,2022) (talk) 11:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)