Property talk:P8069

Documentation

• Start a query
• Current uses
• Statistics by class
• String length
• List of qualifiers
• Count

ToposText person ID
identifier for a person, event, or concept mentioned by ancient authors, in the website ToposText

Applicable "stated in" value	ToposText (Q87068904)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5), mythical character (Q4271324), isolated human group (Q3117863), epithet (Q207869), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), creative work (Q17537576), festival (Q132241), time standard (Q6313217), astronomical object (Q6999), organism (Q7239), Ancient Olympic Games (Q188468), olympiad (Q221956) or group of mythical characters (Q20830276)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example	Abrotelia (Q18639389) → 10751 Achilles (Q41746) → 17 Adonis (Q163920) → 430
Source	https://topostext.org/the-people
Formatter URL	https://topostext.org/people/$1
See also	ToposText place ID (P8068), ToposText work ID (P8070)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties Items with no other external identifier Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Map of people by place values: place of birth educated at work location residence place of death place of burial January 1st dates People with date of birth on January 1 People with date of death on January 1 People with both dates on January 1 Mix'n'match (Report) Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 10,153 Main statement 10,047 out of 10,286 (98% complete) 99% of uses Qualifier 3 <0.1% of uses Reference 103 1% of uses
Search for values

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Format “[1-9]\d*”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069#Format, SPARQL

Type “human (Q5), mythical character (Q4271324), isolated human group (Q3117863), epithet (Q207869), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), creative work (Q17537576), festival (Q132241), time standard (Q6313217), astronomical object (Q6999), organism (Q7239), Ancient Olympic Games (Q188468), olympiad (Q221956), group of mythical characters (Q20830276)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “human (Q5), mythical character (Q4271324), isolated human group (Q3117863), epithet (Q207869), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), creative work (Q17537576), festival (Q132241), time standard (Q6313217), astronomical object (Q6999), organism (Q7239), Ancient Olympic Games (Q188468), olympiad (Q221956), group of mythical characters (Q20830276)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069#Type Q5, Q4271324, Q3117863, Q207869, Q21070568, Q17537576, Q132241, Q6313217, Q6999, Q7239, Q188468, Q221956, Q20830276, SPARQL

Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value)

Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069#Single value, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069#Entity types

Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as reference (Q54828450): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8069#Scope, SPARQL

Desambiguation

@JBradyK: hi! I see that Iasus links to Iasus (Q1247017), a disambiguation page. Are we to link on a systematic basis similarly undiscriminated names on ToposText to their equivalent disambiguation page on Wikidata, e.g. Cleombrotus, Cleombrotos, Kleombrotos to Cleombrotus (Q1774131) ? --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 10:03, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban . Thanks for noticing that. I haven't been doing such links intentionally. A much improved People database will go up on ToposText.org shortly, with many corrected Wikidata IDs and disambiguations. At that point I plan to upload ToposText Person IDs in bulk for disambiguated persons and ideas. I would welcome your thoughts on whether to use the disambiguation pages or simply not to align undisambiguated ToposText person IDs... I'm hesitant, but not sure why. JBradyK (ToposText) (talk) 10:22, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

@JBradyK: Awesome, I look forward the new database! Personnally I'd not align undisambiguated item, mainly for two reasons : 1) I find disambiguation page quite messy in the way they are handled on Wikidata; the one and only vote on them, in early 2013, ruled that disambiguation pages should only have sitelinks with the exact same spelling, save for diacritics. Obviously this doesn't work well with historical names, whose spelling vary greatly between modern languages, and you end up with absurd situations like this. Would it be applicated on above-mentionned Cleombrotos, it would be impossible to link the corresponding ToposText ID. 2) Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410) is, by its name, explicitely made for Wikimedia pages. I'm not sure external links should be made on thoses pages.

By the way, an other issue I have noticed is that some ID on the people thesaurus are not, in fact, people, like Atthis, atthidography (histories of Attica) (full list of problematic cases here). Will this be tweaked in the new database? --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 17:30, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban Agree. I'll try to find or create a proper item for those instances. I regret now the ToposText Person ID property name, since I'm increasingly interested in tagging my texts with epithets, festivals, months, archon dates, tribes, and other concepts, always making sure there is a Wikidata object for them and generally using the Wikidata ID as my internal tag. Planning to rename the web page "People, Events, Ideas". Can we edit the property name and change the constraints rather than mess things up with a new, intractably fuzzy property? JBradyK (ToposText) (talk) 21:08, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@JBradyK: that should be doable, granted the current IDs remain the same; but perhaps @Epìdosis: have a more informed opinion. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 05:54, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree, the property name and constraints can be edited. --Epìdosis 09:28, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Person ID?

@JBradyK: What exactly is the scope of this ID? How is it different from ToposText work ID (P8070)? I see it has been added here and here to works, so that there is both a ToposText person ID (P8069) and ToposText work ID (P8070) on a single work. Both IDs link to a work entry at Topos, not a person. Why is this duplication happening? --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: not JBradyK but you can have a look at the above discussion. Basically ToposText person ID (P8069) URIs are now also covering works, events, etc. as well as people. As for the difference between the two ToposText properties, ToposText work ID (P8070) is used for work itself, which you can read a translation with all the relevant tags, while ToposText person ID (P8069) is for the mentions of said work in the ancient literature. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 13:00, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@JBradyK: If the ToposText work ID (P8070) takes you to a translation, that it should be on its own data item, since it is an edition and not a work. See for example The Red Badge of Courage (Q55816148) which is an edition hosted by Project Gutenberg. Editions of works need to be separate data items, with all the information about the edition, such as date of publication, translators, publisher, etc. We do this for editions hosted on the Wikisources, for editions hosted at Project Gutenberg, and Topos should not be any different. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:32, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Indeed the current arrangement was a stop-gap. Many of the core work items didn't exist until Epidosis used ToposText as a convenient way to reinforce the ancient literature universe. Most ToposText works link to a Greek or Latin text, whatever edition, often unspecified, could conveniently be found online at the time. The number and quality of available ancient texts is increasingly quickly. Hoping that more of the TLG canon will open up shortly.

It would now be manageable for me to create edition items, presumably with help from the Perseus catalogue and Trismegistos. I'd welcome advice there, and a good sample SPARQL query for locating the existing edition items for these 800 texts.

ToposText is a tool for students and travelers, not a faithful copy of a printed text. In addition to adding entity tags and dates, and sacrificing the footnotes and other scholarly apparatus, I have silently corrected translation mistakes (e.g. where ἱερόν is mistranslated as "temple"). Ontological rigor would require ToposText works to be separate editions, but they should also be identified with the printed ones with appropriate qualifiers. Want to produce a sample item I could follow in the coming months? JBradyK (ToposText) (talk) 07:05, 4 April 2022 (UTC)