Property talk:P81
Documentation
railway line(s) subject is directly connected to
| Description | The railway line (Q728937) that the station (Q719456) connects to. Can be used as qualifier on adjacent station (P197). See also connecting service (P1192). | ||||||||||||
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| Represents | railway line (Q728937), rail track (Q57498564) | ||||||||||||
| Data type | Item | ||||||||||||
| Domain | According to this template:
station (Q719456) (not only railways)
According to statements in the property:
When possible, data should only be stored as statementsviaduct (Q181348), train ferry route (Q20180855), S-Bahn route (Q50331459), railway viaduct (Q39486269), aerial tramway station (Q44696264), transport service itinerary (Q1067164), industrial spur (Q1891817), public transport stop (Q548662), rail infrastructure (Q1311670), tram service (Q15145593), motive power depot (Q10283556), railway museum (Q18704634), light rail system line (Q15145537), culvert (Q4168092), railway incident (Q4202290), transport accident (Q11822042), level crossing (Q171448), monorail (Q187934), railway border crossing (Q115110263), route summit (Q7371597), train ride (Q228388), proposed rail infrastructure (Q28043022), operation point (Q124817561) or railway bridge (Q1210334) | ||||||||||||
| Allowed values | railway line (Q728937) (note: this should be moved to the property statements) | ||||||||||||
| Usage notes | Note that this is used for the physical line/track running through the station/stop. Use P1192 for a railway service. | ||||||||||||
| Example | According to this template:
According to statements in the property:
When possible, data should only be stored as statementsWatford Junction railway station (Q10698) → West Coast Main Line (Q19889) Osnabrück Central Station (Q464355) → Wanne-Eickel–Hamburg railway (Q317480) | ||||||||||||
| Robot and gadget jobs | DeltaBot does the following jobs: | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: same | no label (Q42533372) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P81 (Q38538177) | ||||||||||||
| See also | connecting service (P1192) | ||||||||||||
| Lists |
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| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||
| Current uses |
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| Search for values |
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P81#Type Q181348, Q20180855, Q50331459, Q39486269, Q44696264, Q1067164, Q1891817, Q548662, Q1311670, Q15145593, Q10283556, Q18704634, Q15145537, Q4168092, Q4202290, Q11822042, Q171448, Q187934, Q115110263, Q7371597, Q228388, Q28043022, Q124817561, Q1210334, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P81#Value type Q728937, Q57498564, Q1054650, Q1322323, Q498002, Q350783, SPARQL
if [item A] has this property (connecting line (P81)) linked to [item B],
then [item A] and [item B] have to coincide or coexist at some point of history. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P81#Contemporary, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P81#Scope, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P81#Entity types
Purpose ?
editWhat property is this supposed to show, and of what subjects? Janjko (talk) 21:40, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Good question ;) See: Wikidata:List of properties#Added without discussion. --ThorstenX1 (talk) 11:55, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Name
editconnected line, rather than connecting line, would be clearer to me. Danrok (talk) 01:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- I'd rather use it as qualifier of adjacent station (P197), so connecting line makes sense and the qualifier is important information. However, stating the line as a property of the station seems redundant to me. --JonnyJD (talk) 15:09, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
Use adjacent station as a qualifier?
editShould we use adjacent station (P197) as a qualifier with this property?
I have entered a simple example here: New Brighton railway station (Q2194863). Some stations have many lines and many adjacent stations, so I think we must do it this way.
- That seems reasonable. However, if it's not a terminus, there should be two adjacent stations for each line. Superm401 - Talk 04:51, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, or more. I've tried to solve Watford Junction railway station (Q10698). Danrok (talk) 11:03, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- I would prefer the opposite; connecting line (P81) should be used as a qualifier for adjacent station (P197). /Esquilo (talk) 13:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. I am doing it like that. --JonnyJD (talk) 14:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed, property should be used as qualifier (for e.g adjacent station (P197)). Michiel1972 (talk) 08:59, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. I am doing it like that. --JonnyJD (talk) 14:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- I would prefer the opposite; connecting line (P81) should be used as a qualifier for adjacent station (P197). /Esquilo (talk) 13:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, or more. I've tried to solve Watford Junction railway station (Q10698). Danrok (talk) 11:03, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Specify railway line using "part of"
editFor railway stations I use "part of" <railway line item> as claim, see e.g. Schiedam Centrum railway station (Q801405). 139.63.60.122 13:49, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Infrastructure
editI changed the dutch description to clarify not only stations part of a railway line could have this property, but also other infrastructure such as bridges or tunnels. Bennie91 (talk) 14:18, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note that for bridges or tunnels it is useful to add carries (P2505) to indicate the line which passes over the bridge or through the tunnel. Jheald (talk) 09:36, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Mandatory as qualifier?
editI find it a bit superfluous to have this property and connecting service (P1192) used on its own as a property and as a qualifier to adjacent station (P197), especially when using it in the latter manner tells us much more about a station's relationship with other stations. Is it about time that the two 'connecting' properties be required to be used as qualifiers? Mahir256 (talk) 18:15, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Position on line
editHi, is it possible or can it be made possible to indicate the position of a station or another object on the line, that is, the distance from on the line from the origin (in Kilometers or some other length unit)? --Dealerofsalvation (talk) 13:54, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Property scope as qualifier
edit@Michgrig: regarding whether this property should be only be used as a qualifier, maybe I misread the earlier discussion above as being consensus: Property talk:P81#Use adjacent station as a qualifier?. Also, the English description as of yesterday was "railway line(s) subject is directly connected to; use as a qualifier to P197", set by User:PhiH a few days ago.
In retrospect, when looking at the actual usage, it is evenly split between main statement and qualifiers:
| Total | 177,233 | |
|---|---|---|
| Main statement | 88,855 | 50.1% of uses |
| Qualifier | 88,367 | 49.9% of uses |
| Reference | 11 | <0.1% of uses |
Since property constraint (P2302) has property scope constraint (Q53869507) as a suggested value (Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P2302#Item P2302), I'm going to add both as main value (Q54828448) and as qualifier (Q54828449) as allowed options, and update the English alias to remove the qualifier comment. Harryboyles (talk) 00:15, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Harryboyles,
Thank you for your message. I did not see the 2013 discussion that you mention. Otherwise, I would have opposed the decision.
I don't know if this is right or not but I can tell you how I use this property and why.
If an intermediate station belongs to a single line then it is reasonable to specify the line as a single property and do not specify it as qualifiers for adjacent stations. Do you agree that one mention is better than two? :)
If a station belongs to several lines, then I specify all of them in the property and also specify proper lines as qualifiers for adjacent stations. Michgrig (talk) 00:23, 20 December 2020 (UTC) - I changed the description to clarify that the property is not for services but for railway lines (1). "Use as a qualifier for P197" had already been part of the description at that moment; I didn't add that part. I would suggest to remove that note completely because this property can be used (and is used) as a statement as well.
--PhiH (talk) 06:18, 20 December 2020 (UTC)--PhiH (talk) 08:50, 2 April 2021 (UTC)- Just noticed that it was already changed right after this discussion. --PhiH (talk) 08:53, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
P81 and P1192
editHi PhiH, could you please explain the difference between connecting line (P81) and connecting service (P1192). I feel like there is more data with P81 than P1192 ? Somewhat confusing to me in fact. Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 07:20, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- P81 is for railway lines as in the physical track. In the SNCF network those are usually defined by a six-digit line number. On the other hand there is P1192 for routes or services/service patterns. Those can be numbered as well, S-Bahn routes in Germany for example have designated numbers (S1, S2 etc.). A "ligne du RER" can be considered as a service or as a group of services because they split up to several branches.
- I guess that P81 is used more often because services are usually not considered notable for most Wikipedia projects. --PhiH (talk) 08:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- Don't you think there is a mess with that query ? https://w.wiki/39jV Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 09:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- I see a lot of metro or underground lines in that query. These networks are a special case here because in many cases there are no defined lines and instead the services are considered to be the same as the lines. That usually works fine because in many networks each line is mostly separated from the rest and thus is used by exactly one service. I would say that in this case P81 can be used as well. --PhiH (talk) 19:07, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- Don't you think there is a mess with that query ? https://w.wiki/39jV Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 09:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Bus services
editI have noticed that there are several bus stations that use connecting line (P81) for the bus services calling at that station. These statements should use connecting service (P1192) because they are about services, not railway lines. Since connecting service (P1192) has been introduced, there is consensus to distinguish between these two very different things by using these two properties (although parts of the description have been ambiguous until a discussion we had about a year ago). I'm considering to create a bot request to fix this issue which is why I'm asking for opinions here. --PhiH (talk) 16:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- "Very" different wouldn't be the vocable I'd be using... Any example? Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 19:45, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- An example is Q72593969 which has the bus services calling there listed with connecting line (P81). --PhiH (talk) 17:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)