Property talk:P8371

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references work, tradition or theory
creative work, tradition or theory this creative work references by allusion, quote or similar means (for citations in scholarly and legal works use P2860, for other more specific properties have a look at "see also" on the property page)

Represents	reference (Q96622155)
Data type	Item
Domain	creative work (Q17537576), genre (Q483394), theory (Q17737), tradition (Q82821) or phrase (Q187931)
Example	Lolita (Q127149) → Au lecteur (Q17357164) 1Q84 (Q208971) → It's Only a Paper Moon (Q387410) Lolita (Q127149) → psychoanalysis (Q41630) The Tin Drum (Q899334) → Bildungsroman (Q223945)
See also	cites work (P2860), quotes work (P6166), has melody (P1625), samples from work (P5707), has lyrics (P6439), after a work by (P1877), inspired by (P941), influenced by (P737), reply to (P2675), based on (P144), depicts (P180), genre (P136), modified version of (P5059)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties By value of property Most statements Fewest statements Most sitelinks Most linked wikis Total of sitelinks on items Most identifiers Fewest identifiers Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P8371 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 1,861 Main statement 1,805 97% of uses Qualifier 50 2.7% of uses Reference 6 0.3% of uses
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Type “creative work (Q17537576), genre (Q483394), theory (Q17737), tradition (Q82821), phrase (Q187931)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “creative work (Q17537576), genre (Q483394), theory (Q17737), tradition (Q82821), phrase (Q187931)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8371#Type Q17537576, Q483394, Q17737, Q82821, Q187931, SPARQL

Citation needed: the property must have at least one reference (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8371#citation needed

Value type “creative work (Q17537576), genre (Q483394), theory (Q17737), tradition (Q82821), doctrine (Q117850), version, edition or translation (Q3331189)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31), subclass of (P279) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value creative work (Q17537576), genre (Q483394), theory (Q17737), tradition (Q82821), doctrine (Q117850), version, edition or translation (Q3331189) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8371#Value type Q17537576, Q483394, Q17737, Q82821, Q117850, Q3331189, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8371#Entity types

Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8371#Scope, SPARQL

Property constraint : admitting humans

I would like to admit the instances of humans in this property, because a lot of times a person is mentioned as a reference, instead of his work/theory/etc.

Example : 20.000 Leagues under the seas.

The other Properties are not adapted (too narrow) and the broad scope of P8371 could benefits of this addition. User:Pmartinolli April 26, 2022.

Similar property for non-creative works

I came across this property due to the "alludes to" alias when I wanted to add a qualifier to the subtitle of a drawing "Proud and sincere, yet liberal and just, he refused to serve under the most humble of Premiers" indicating that William Ewart Gladstone (Q160852) was the Premier alluded to. However since the target is a person rather than a creative work references work, tradition or theory (P8371) doesn't seem to be the right choice. Is there a more generic version of this property without the creative work restriction? /Lokal_Profil 23:09, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lokal Profil: Unfortunately not. There where multiple proposals for a "mentions property", all rejected, for the reason that it is too unspecific:

• Wikidata:Property_proposal/mentions (March 2016)
• Wikidata:Property_proposal/mentioned_in_work (July 2018)
• Wikidata:Property_proposal/Mentioned_at (November 2019)
• Wikidata:Property_proposal/mentions_named_entity (November 2019)

You could think about using depicts (P180): It is not only for visual depictions, but also literary ones. One could think about using a qualifier like applies to part (P518) description (Q1200750). There may be an issue that for visual works you expect depicts (P180) to be used for visual depictions so people querying for works depicting William Ewart Gladstone (Q160852) may be a bit disappointed with works that only mention him in the description but this is the property closest to your intention I could find. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 09:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Use as qualifier for title (P1476)

@Valentina.Anitnelav, SilentSpike, Animalparty, Nomen ad hoc, Swpb: @Arbnos, Arbnos:

titles of some creative works sometime refer to other works (as well as other things) whereas the rest of the work does not do it explicitly. These references are sometimes entirely lost in localised titles. In such cases I used this property as a qualifier for title (P1476):

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?title ?reference ?referenceLabel WHERE {
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
  ?item p:P1476 _:b8.
  _:b8 pq:P8371 ?reference.
  _:b8 ps:P1476 ?title.
}
LIMIT 100

Try it!

Do you think this is appropriate? I'd like to modify the scope constrains to allow this --Loominade (talk) 19:19, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Loominade: I prefer to do it the other way round: Use references work, tradition or theory (P8371) along with the qualifier applies to name of subject (P5168):

the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)references work, tradition or theory (P8371)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250)applies to name of subject (P5168)the Heathen Chinee.

You could also use the qualifier applies to part (P518) original title (Q1294573).

As to using this property for other things (that are not works or "work-like"): I take issue with that. I see that a value constraint was never added - I just added it according to the property proposal Wikidata:Property_proposal/references. I will have a look at uses for other things and maybe broaden the scope a bit. For titles I think that named after (P138) is more appropriate for the cases of 11:59 (Q55812520) or amok (Q473814):

11:59 (Q4547735)named after (P138)11:59 (Q55812520)applies to name of subject (P5168)11:59 - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:50, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Use references work, tradition or theory references work, tradition or theory (P8371) along with the qualifier applies to name of subject (P5168) […] You could also use the qualifier applies to part (P518) original title (Q1294573).

that would only work when there is a single original title. If you'd want to make a statement about a localised title out of many, it wouldn't. here for instance. Loominade (talk) 16:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

But we should go both ways when possible – Loominade (talk) 17:19, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@Valentina.Anitnelav: I prefer your approach somewhat to Loominade's, but it raises a question I've never seen a clear answer on: What is the general consensus on modeling the same information multiple ways, i.e. allowing Xtitle (P1476)Yreferences work, tradition or theory (P8371)Z and Xreferences work, tradition or theory (P8371)Zapplies to name of subject (P5168)Y? The upside is that it allows for multiple ways to find the information; the downside is that capturing all such information in a query would require awareness of each valid modeling approach. Along the same lines, the value constraint suggests a flip side: if references work, tradition or theory (P8371) is constrained to take only works or "work-like" entities as values, should named after (P138) be constrained to not take those items as values, with a suggestion to use references work, tradition or theory (P8371) instead? Swpb (talk) 14:07, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@Swpb: In my opinion this information should only be modelled as Xreferences work, tradition or theory (P8371)Zapplies to name of subject (P5168)Y. The qualifier is useful to provide additional information, but it is not really needed. the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)references work, tradition or theory (P8371)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) would be true even without the qualifier - the title is somehow one of the most prominent places to refer to another work.

As to your second question: In the case of a work referring to another work in its title by its title I would argue that you should actually use both statements: the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)references work, tradition or theory (P8371)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) and the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)named after (P138)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250). This is similar, in my opinion, to cases where a film is shot in x and also set in x. Or where a film is both set during World War II and has World War II as a central topic. Sometimes both statements take the same value, sometimes not. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 14:56, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

After some thought: One could also argue that only the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)named after (P138)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) should be used in the case of works alluding to other works in their title by their title: In the case of references to other works only the most specific one should be used. So a work being an adaption of another work should only use based on (P144), a work quoting another work should use quotes work (P6166), a work using the music of another work only has melody (P1625), a work sampling another work only samples from work (P5707). An additional references work, tradition or theory (P8371) is not needed. It appears to me that the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)named after (P138)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) is somehow more specific than the Heathen Chinee (Q98713414)references work, tradition or theory (P8371)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) and so should be preferred to the latter. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 15:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Re question 1, doesn't your logic apply to Loominade's formulation too? In Xtitle (P1476)Yreferences work, tradition or theory (P8371)Z, the qualifier is also not necessary to make the statement true - so what is the downside to statements of that form? Swpb (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

I never argued for removing Xtitle (P1476)Y. I just argue for indicating the works referenced via a full statement, not as a qualifier. I intend to keep both statements: Xtitle (P1476)Y and Xnamed after (P138)Z / Xreferences work, tradition or theory (P8371)Z (I would actually drop references work, tradition or theory (P8371), as argued above). The latter may be qualified using applies to name of subject (P5168). - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 15:17, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

As a (my) general rule: I think statements about the subject item should be expressed as a full statement. Qualifiers should be used for refinement, contextualization etc. of a statement, but they should not give additional information about the subject item. I think that references work, tradition or theory (P8371)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) is about the subject item (if it is the original title). (I guess that Loominade would argue that references work, tradition or theory (P8371)The Heathen Chinee (Q7739250) is about the title.) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 16:02, 24 March 2022 (UTC)