Wikidata

Wikidata:Property proposal/financials URL

< Wikidata:Property proposal

official financials URL

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Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

   Not done
DescriptionURL of official website or pages about an organization's financials; e.g. investor website for a public corporation, section with annual reports of the organization
Data typeURL
Domainorganizations
Allowed valuesURL
Example 1Action Against Hunger (Q343624) → https://www.actioncontrelafaim.org/nous-decouvrir/transparence-financiere/
Example 2Xerox (Q152433) → https://www.news.xerox.com/investors
Example 3Wikimedia Foundation (Q180) → https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/financial-reports/
Example 4ADAC (Q289953) → https://www.adac.de/der-adac/ueber-uns-se/finanzen/
Example 5Tesco (Q487494) → https://www.tescoplc.com/investors/
Example 6Air France-KLM (Q407237) → https://www.airfranceklm.com/fr/finance
Example 7Michelin (Q151107) → https://www.michelin.com/finance/
Example 8Alphabet Inc. (Q20800404) → https://abc.xyz/investor/
Example 9IBM (Q37156) → https://www.ibm.com/investor
Example 10Cargill (Q1036056) → https://www.cargill.com/about/financial
Planned useadd to some
See also

Motivation

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Sometimes easily found, sometimes not. Interesting for this aspect of organizations, as object of study or other (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 08:56, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Notified participants of WikiProject Companies please help complete the proposal/add samples. --- Jura 08:56, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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  Notified participants of WikiProject Companies

  •   Oppose Seems to be very US-centric. I don't think companies outside or America are required to publish such a page. Could you tell us more about the legal context? Johanricher (talk) 13:23, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Johanricher: WMDE isn't really US nor a company. --- Jura 13:33, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I can't seem to find the relevant page for WMDE. Johanricher (talk) 13:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Johanricher: Which would explain why the property is useful, isn't it? --- Jura 13:37, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not if the page is irrelevant, i.e. not comparable to the other examples you gave, which are all from the US. I would be ready to change my mind if you could provide homogeneous examples from a diverse range of country and which directly match your description of the proposed property ("organization's financials, eg. investor website for public corporations"). Johanricher (talk) 13:48, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Johanricher: I think it matches the description "organization financials". I can add more samples (e.g.) if that helps. --- Jura 14:44, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • For now, and as far I can understand with the elements you put forward, it's still a US-centric property proposal with an unclear factual or legal definition. I think properties should thrive to apply to any jurisdiction, or be very clear when they're country-specific. Johanricher (talk) 14:52, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Johanricher: I don't quite get what makes you think it's US-centric (except that I started out with US companies as samples). Can you explain? It's clear that the property is not needed for countries where everything is published through centralized databases only nor for countries where no financials are published by organizations, but that doesn't explain why everybody else who does that is considered "US". --- Jura 15:08, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • My intention was first to get a clear definition as to what "financials" exactly entailed. I suppose that if companies publish such documents on their website, it must mean that they're obligated by law to do so. So, those "financials" you describe must translate very differently depending on the countries and jurisdictions of such companies. Probably just by looking at distinction of civil law and common law countries, there might not be comparable elements or even anything that could be called "financials". Consequently, if the property only applies to some juridisctions, it must be established and clarified in the property description. Otherwise, Wikidata contributors will use it with a wide range of heterogeneous results, which will be pretty much useless. IMHO. Such a vague property wouldn't bring anything of value that the generic official website (P856) doesn't already gives.
      • Hm, somehow I doubt that view is shared by finance people. I don't get the link with US and whatever distinction you make in finance. Is this supported by some reference or just a personal view? It's clear that the actual depth of the available information varies depending on what organizations have to or want to publish. This is obviously true for most if not all external links. --- Jura 17:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Different countries have different accounting and financial practices. Some will look at the "EBITDA" while it won't apply to other countries where there will be another concept called "excédent brut d'exploitation". Both exists in Wikidata, for good reasons, because they're plainly different. And experts would not consider them at the same when compared. "Financials" is just to vague a term, I think. Instead of an external link (which breaks often, which is an additonnal issue), I think it's better to use factual properties such as total revenue (P2139) as you mentioned, with the URL as a reference of that statement. Johanricher (talk) 17:13, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • The question is if one company has several definitions of "financials" depending on standards of different countries. This could make it difficulte to add values, but, similar to privacy policy URL (P7101), terms of service URL (P7014), charter URL (P6378), generally there is just one.
        I think some user started to propose properties for various numbers, but I think they never started to add data nor actually got to EBITDA, so that doesn't seem to be a working alternative even for users who propose such properties (Maybe it does for you?). Anyways, the suggestion still requires to find the URL in the first place and it doesn't really change the other problem you mention (URLs change).
        That they do is a known problem, but this isn't really specific to this property, but shared with thousands of others we include. We have ways to handle that, so there is no need to worry about it.
        I suppose in the meantime, you discarded the idea that the property would be US specific. --- Jura 17:42, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • No, my point still stands, I just added to it. I still think "financials" is too vague a term to apply to all countries and use cases at once, among other problems. But we're just going in circle with this argument now. If others find this proposed property useful then my opposition is irrelevant. Johanricher (talk) 13:51, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Ok, if you don't care to explain why it would be US centric, we can just move on. --- Jura 14:10, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]


  • I think there is an open question of how the situation is outside of the US. Answering that question can be helpful for not creating a solution that works for one country but not for others (it's preferable not to have to patch meaning later). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:24, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tesco is British and hard to find if you start out from what's in Wikidata. WMDE mentioned earlier is in Germany. --- Jura 14:44, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @ChristianKl: I redid the samples: there is now a better mix of different types of organizations (public companies, private companies, non profits) from various countries other than that one (France, Germany, United Kingdom). Do you think we need more to illustrate it? --- Jura 07:41, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for digging out that example, it shows clearly how to use "URL" and "of".
Why do you think the subject of "URL" cannot be an organization? Any item can have any number of URLs on a variety of topics --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 09:59, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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