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Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

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See alsoEdit

This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property

  1. Check if the property already exists by looking at Wikidata:List of properties (research on manual list) and Special:ListProperties.
  2. Check if the property was previously proposed or is on the pending list.
  3. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically.
  4. Select the right datatype for the property.
  5. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below and add it in the appropriate section.

Creating the property

  1. Once consensus is reached, change status=ready on the template, to attract the attention of a property creator.
  2. Creation can be done 1 week after the proposal, by a property creator or an administrator.
  3. See steps when creating properties.

  On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2019/06.

Contents

Politics/electionEdit

nation-state traditionEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionnation-state or statehood tradition of a historical polity
Representsnation state (Q179671)
Data typeItem
Domainhistorical country (Q3024240)
Example 1Republic of Venice (Q4948)Italy (Q38)
Example 2German Democratic Republic (Q16957)Germany (Q183)
Example 3Silla (Q28456)Korea (Q18097)

MotivationEdit

This property would affiliate a historical state with one (or more) nation-state traditions. Among other things, this would allow someone to query persons tied to historical German or Italian states using country of citizenship (P27), for example any ship captain of an Italian state in the 16th century.Pharos (talk) 02:35, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  •   Support David (talk) 08:16, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
  •   Comment Is it somehow possible to query by "replaced by"? I do agree with your motivation, because there might be several iterations of "replaced by" and might be easier to query, but I'm not sure if this the ideal solution🤔, especially because of multiple overlappings (such as Republic of Venice (Q4948), today part of 6 different countries. Germartin1 (talk) 07:52, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Hm, this is complicated. First of all, the direction should go the other way: recent/current states claim their predecessors as sharing a nation-state tradition, not the other way around. I think there might also be instances of states renouncing their historical nation affiliation/tradition. North and South Korea both claim to be the Korean nation-state and the successor to previous such states, as Korea. Should the items used be North Korea (Q423) and South Korea (Q884), or Korea (Q18097)? How should Taiwan (Q865) be handled? The government claims to be part of the chain of governments of China, but the local independence movement claims the country to be of a different nation entirely. Do we prioritize claims of the country itself? How do we deal with historical countries in the middle of a chain? If nation-state X claims descent from Y and Z but Y didn't claim descent from Z, how to show that? Is the Byzantine Empire (Q12544) linked to the Roman Empire by nation-state tradition? Should we also attempt to link pre- and post-state entities, and failed independence attempts and movements, with the system? Some countries had long-lasting pre-state institutions which became the state over time, or governments-in-exile during times of occupation. Some nation-states are based around particular cultures or ethnicities, should those be linked somehow? --Yair rand (talk) 20:22, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support Yes there may be exceptions, but on the whole, it's the best fit. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:08, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
It also means that Wikidata driven infoboxes, on Wikipedia, would contain information relevant to the country, as per existing infoboxes. For example, Andorra WD infobox on cywiki - has missing info which is on enwiki (Independence from Aragon; 1278). Really needs two new properties. 'Independence from' and 'Date of decleration of independence'. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 10:20, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
    • @Yair rand: - you make it sound really difficult! This is how they solved it on enwiki (see Andorra):
    • Now, this info needs to be on Wikidata. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 10:59, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
      I think that is an entirely different thing than what this proposal is for... --Yair rand (talk) 23:11, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support I think this is a sensible development and I support. Stefanik (talk)
  •   Support There'll be some doubtful statements, but we can handle more information and be more accurate in this way. -Theklan (talk) 10:16, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support (provisionally, I want to think about this some more...). I think there is a long way to go to make things work properly for all the different ways we use "nationality", "nationhood" etc, but this is definitely interesting and a step in the right direction. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:18, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Oppose The Republic of Venice, which ceased to exist in 1797, was not associated with a state whose date of inception was 2 June 1946. Indeed, the latter is not a "nation-state tradition". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:35, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
And that's why it's not added on the enwiki infobox. But where it does make sense, as with Andorra, then it should be included. The property is really badly worded, and should only apply to current, independent, sovereign states. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 14:00, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
My request for property was placed here. Slightly different to this one. Any suggestions? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 14:16, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  • In case I've hijacked this proposal (and I appologise if I have!) I've reworded a new draft proposal here. Please add your comments or suggestions. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:46, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   SupportKippelboy (talk) 09:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Oppose per Andy Mabbett. strakhov (talk) 12:14, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose I also agree with Andy Mabbett's reasons for opposing this. SJK (talk) 00:29, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

declared patrimonyEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptiondeclared totality of wealth possessed by a person
Representsnet worth (Q1933764)
Data typeQuantity
Template parameter"fortuna" in Predefinição:Info/Biografia
Domainhuman (Q5)
Allowed unitsAny instance of (P31) of currency (Q8142), such Brazilian real (Q173117), United States dollar (Q4917) for example
Example 1Jair Bolsonaro (Q10304982) → Declared patrimony: 2286779,48 (unit Brazilian real (Q173117)) point in time (P585): +2018-00-00T00:00:00Z/09 source: reference URL (P854) → "http://divulgacandcontas.tse.jus.br/divulga/#/candidato/2018/2022802018/BR/280000614517/bens"
Example 2Fernando Haddad (Q3069485) → Declared patrimony: 428451,09 (unit Brazilian real (Q173117)) point in time (P585): +2018-00-00T00:00:00Z/09 source: reference URL (P854) → "http://divulgacandcontas.tse.jus.br/divulga/#/candidato/2018/2022802018/BR/280000629808/bens"
Example 3Guilherme Boulos (Q20045809) → Declared patrimony: 15416,00 (unit Brazilian real (Q173117)) point in time (P585): +2018-00-00T00:00:00Z/09 source: reference URL (P854) → "http://divulgacandcontas.tse.jus.br/divulga/#/candidato/2018/2022802018/BR/280000601016/bens"
Sourceexternal reference URL
Planned useFill the items of candidates or/and elected politics of Brazil with data declared by them to the Brazilian Superior Electoral Court.
See alsodifferent of net worth (P2218), since is not estimated, but declared.

MotivationEdit

It is part of the completness and transparency of the Brazilian election process that should be publicy known the total wealth of a candidate. They are required to provide to the Supreme Court detailed information about the wealth they have. Also, apart from elections, this property might be used to other items of humans, business etc, not only brazilian politicians. It is similar to net worth (P2218), but now with declared by the subject of the item itself to an reputed or governmental source and with source and date required. What do you guys think? Ederporto (talk) 15:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

@Pigsonthewing: Hi there. I understand what you mean, but I am a not sure net worth (P2218) as it stands is actually a good property for what is being proposed here. This property is combining in itself two distinct ideas: a value and a method, that is, 'net worth' and 'estimate'. This method (estimation) is not compatible with the property that is being requested here, as what you would have from this case is "self-declared net worth", which is not an estimate but a precise number that the agent himself/herself publicizes in the context of the Brazilian law of political transparency (it should not be taken as an estimate at all). So, here, we should either work on improving P2218 or a distinct property is needed, IMO. I am fine either way, but until this cleaning is done --which might entail involving community members who were involved in setting up P2218, my sense is that a new property should be created as we need it to structure data from elections in Brazil, so:   Support. --Joalpe (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Oppose P2218 should do. --- Jura 15:26, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Oppose. Qualifiers can add information to P2218 as necessary. --Yair rand (talk) 03:00, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

moved byEdit

MotivationEdit

Making a motion is the first and most important parliamentary procedure to propose something before an assembly. This property will help create data about the movers who have participated in any parliamentary democracy. The more we can create data about motions and politicians who have actively participated in parliamentary democracy, a simple query will reflect how well an elected member came forward and engaged in the assembly. Bodhisattwa (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

ChristianKl Oravrattas Tagishsimon Jacksonj04 Owenpatel Markcridge Louisecrow Nomen ad hoc Tubezlob Siwhitehouse Mhl20 Alexsdutton Danadl Teester Zache a_ka_es Hasive Nat965 masti Papuass Jklamo ProtoplasmaKid Jmmuguerza Graemebp Pete Forsyth Jelabra Rfitzel Davidpar Canley Bodhisattwa CYAN Masssly MJL tdombos

  Notified participants of WikiProject every politician Bodhisattwa (talk) 20:54, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

  •   Support for this and the others proposed here - it may apply beyond governmental policy-making, if we have items for notable decisions by organizations, the same property could apply. ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support per my previous statement. –MJLTalk 03:41, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 05:33, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   SupportHrishikes (talk) 04:02, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment label and description used seems to be limited to those called "motion" and the property description mainly repeats the label. Can this be worded in a more general form, this even if it's meant to be limited to objects handled in parliament? --- Jura 05:38, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure I understand how this relates to legislation, if it does at all. Would the initial proposer of a bill be listed using this property from the item for the eventual law? --Yair rand (talk) 02:44, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support making a motion (moving) is a key part of legislative history and parliamentary procedure --DannyS712 (talk) 20:03, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support.--Vulphere 05:51, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

seconded byEdit

MotivationEdit

Seconding a motion after moving it is the second step to propose something before an assembly. This property will help create data about the elected members of an assembly who have actively debated in any parliamentary democracy. The more we can create data about motions and politicians who have actively participated in parliamentary democracy, a simple query will reflect how well an elected member engaged in the assembly. Bodhisattwa (talk) 15:22, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

ChristianKl Oravrattas Tagishsimon Jacksonj04 Owenpatel Markcridge Louisecrow Nomen ad hoc Tubezlob Siwhitehouse Mhl20 Alexsdutton Danadl Teester Zache a_ka_es Hasive Nat965 masti Papuass Jklamo ProtoplasmaKid Jmmuguerza Graemebp Pete Forsyth Jelabra Rfitzel Davidpar Canley Bodhisattwa CYAN Masssly MJL tdombos

  Notified participants of WikiProject every politician Bodhisattwa (talk) 20:54, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

  •   Support per my previous statement. –MJLTalk 03:40, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 05:33, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   SupportHrishikes (talk) 04:02, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support for motions that require a second, the second is a key part of the parliamentary procedure and legislative history --DannyS712 (talk) 20:04, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support.--Vulphere 05:51, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

debated byEdit

MotivationEdit

Debating on a motion before an assembly is the most important step to propose something . This property will help create data about the seconders debaters who have participated in any parliamentary democracy. The more we can create data about motions and politicians who have actively participated in parliamentary democracy, a simple query will reflect how well an elected member engaged in the assembly. Bodhisattwa (talk) 15:22, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

ChristianKl Oravrattas Tagishsimon Jacksonj04 Owenpatel Markcridge Louisecrow Nomen ad hoc Tubezlob Siwhitehouse Mhl20 Alexsdutton Danadl Teester Zache a_ka_es Hasive Nat965 masti Papuass Jklamo ProtoplasmaKid Jmmuguerza Graemebp Pete Forsyth Jelabra Rfitzel Davidpar Canley Bodhisattwa CYAN Masssly MJL tdombos

  Notified participants of WikiProject every politician Bodhisattwa (talk) 20:55, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

  •   Support Seems useful. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 21:03, 26 April 2019 (UTC).
  •   Support This would be a very good edition to our coverage of legislation (Q49371). –MJLTalk 03:39, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose I have a few different issues with this, as currently proposed. Firstly, though only minor, the "motivation" section seems to have been accidentally swapped with seconded by. More significantly, the examples given seem to conflate the outcome of a debate with the debate itself, and having something like Aims and Objectives Resolution of the Constituent Assembly of India (Q63343205) be both a "constitutional document" and a "motion" is likely to cause significant issues further down the line. It's certainly worth being able to record these things, but we need more thought as to the best way to do so. In most legislative systems there isn't as clean a 1:1 mapping between outcomes (e.g passed laws) and the various debates and motions that lead to them. We would also need to be careful not to end up with a solution that only works for a single type of legislative procedure. My suspicion is that if we were to have an item for any important debate itself (separate from the outcome of the debate), we could usefully use participant (P710) instead, with qualifiers to specify how the person participated (e.g. proposing or seconding a motion, giving an important speech, casting a certain vote etc), with much more flexibility that needing new properties for each of these. That also seems like it would be simpler to query for many of the common requirements. --Oravrattas (talk) 05:31, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 05:33, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   SupportHrishikes (talk) 04:04, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Wait This property would need a good definition that species what it means. Does debating only refers to saying things in an full session of a parliament? Do committees count? Do debates outside of the parliament count? ChristianKl❫ 18:50, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose would this list every member of an assembly? The assembly itself? It doesn't seem needed --DannyS712 (talk) 20:07, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

OrganizationEdit

See also Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending for approved items awaiting the deployment of currently unavailable datatypes

mission statementEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionofficial statement of an organization's purpose
Representsmission statement (Q942830)
Data typeMonolingual text
Domainitem
Example 1Creative Commons (Q43449) → Creative Commons develops, supports, and stewards legal and technical infrastructure that maximizes digital creativity, sharing, and innovation.
Example 2World Vegetable Center (Q8036391) → Alleviate poverty and malnutrition in the developing world through the increased production and consumption of nutritious, health-promoting vegetables.
Example 3Halifax Pride (Q17512396) → To provide a pride festival that reflect and celebrates the best of the LGBTQ+ community and culture in Halifax and throughout Nova Scotia.
See alsomotto text (P1451)

MotivationEdit

We currently have a motto text (P1451) property, which was originally defined as "short motivation sentence associated to item (e.g. at the bottom of its coat of arms)," but somewhere along the way an editor changed the property label to include "slogan | mission statement | mission | tagline".

I think mission statement (Q942830) and motto (Q42470) are quite distinct (and not mutually exclusive) concepts that should not be conflated in this way. Probably slogan (Q30515) as well, which more of a marketing concept, but that's not my area of interest. All three of the examples I gave above are mission statements that are currently listed in their items already but using the "motto text" property. Of note, motto text (P1451) includes many organizations, but mostly places, while mission statements are almost exclusively for organizations.

Related: should we create a property for the vision statement (Q18733426), which often go hand in hand with organizational mission statements? Dominic (talk) 15:57, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  •   Comment Note there is a limited length (400 characters?) for string/text properties in Wikidata; I think a lot of these statements (particularly "vision statements") can be much longer than that. I'd be more in favor of finding another place to put these pieces of text (Wikiquote? Commons?) and linking them appropriately. ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:40, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
    • It's a valid point. I was curious about the character limit and found that it is being increased to 1500 in the near future. I think that will be sufficient for just about any of these, since that is about half a page of text. Does it belong on Wikidata? Certainly, it's a little different, but I think it's one of the more significant pieces of data about an organization, and it would be very useful to be able to do queries such as "list the mission statements of all museums in the United States", something that cannot be done outside of Wikidata. (Possibly relevant to FindingGLAMs.) Dominic (talk) 19:50, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
      • Yeah it should now be limited to 1500. --LydiaPintscher (talk) 13:25, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Oppose Use the description David (talk) 07:09, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
    • The description field of an item isn't the right place for the mission statement. --LydiaPintscher (talk) 13:25, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support --LydiaPintscher (talk) 13:25, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Does this pose a copyright issue? Some mission statements might be long enough to be copyrightable. Even if it doesn't, I think it would be preferable for this kind of thing to wait until we have structured Wikiquote, instead of using the monolingual text datatype. --Yair rand (talk) 05:57, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
    •   Oppose. --Yair rand (talk) 21:00, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
      • @Yair rand: Copyright is a valid concern for some possible uses of this property, including potentially the examples above—which I just took from existing uses of the other property that need to be disambiguated, so I'm not necessarily vouching for them. I am not sure why that would invalidate the need for the property, though. There are still many cases of institutions with unambiguously public domain mission statements, either due to age, simplicity, or government agency (such as US federal agencies) which do not copyright works. Dominic (talk) 15:11, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support John Samuel (talk) 15:06, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

substitute director/managerEdit

   Ready Create
Descriptionsubstitute of the director/manager of an organization
RepresentsQ20155512
Data typeItem
Template parameter"stellvertreter" / "stellvertreterin" in de:Vorlage:Infobox_Bundesbehörde_Schweiz
Domainorganization (Q43229)
Allowed valueshuman (Q5)
Example 1Federal Department of Foreign Affairs (Q675983)Ueli Maurer (Q123979)
Example 2Federal Department of Home Affairs (Q688584)Ignazio Cassis (Q117254)
Example 3Federal Department of Justice and Police (Q678586)Simonetta Sommaruga (Q122991)
Planned useThe value is needed in the context of templates for Swiss authorities
See alsodirector/manager (P1037), substitute/deputy/replacement of office/officeholder (P2098)

MotivationEdit

There is presently no appropriate property to refer to the substitute director/manager of a Swiss federal department, as this role is assumed by another Federal Councillor, and not related to a specific function. I assume that similar regulations are in place in other democratically elected governments. --Beat Estermann (talk) 21:11, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

substitute/deputy/replacement of office/officeholder (P2098) has domain "position" and range "position".
<substitute director/manager> would have domain "organization" and range "agent".
I don't think we should mix the two. And as I said, I don't see a meaningful way to express the information contained in the templates for Swiss authorities using substitute/deputy/replacement of office/officeholder (P2098); but I am of course open for suggestions. --Beat Estermann (talk) 07:49, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I don't understand why the domain needs to be different (you are substituting somebody in a position, right?) but your point is that in this case certain specific people are designated as substitutes, not dependent on what position they hold? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:19, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Exactly. The people mentioned in the examples are all members of the same collegial executive body (Federal Council). At the same time, each of them acts as the head of one out of seven federal departments (director/manager (P1037)). In addition, each of them acts as a substitute for one of their colleagues in their role as head of a federal department (<substitute director/manager>). --Beat Estermann (talk) 21:01, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
I still don't understand why not to just create a separate item for the deputy position and point to it with P39... --Yair rand (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Ok, seems like something useful. ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:24, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

unit sizeEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionsize classification of military unit
Representsmilitary unit size class (Q21506450)
Data typeItem
DomainQ176799
Allowed valuesQ21506450
Example 11st Armored Division (Q163673) military unit size division (Q169534)
Example 2signals regiment (Q47423740) military unit size regiment (Q52371)
Example 3infantry squad (Q47250366) military unit size squad (Q207063)
Example 4Filo (Q62649248) military unit size squadron (Q679165)

MotivationEdit

Permit connecting a military unit to the item related to its size. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 04:20, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Corporate Number (South Korea)Edit

Descriptionidentifier assigned to companies registered in South Korea by the Registration Office, the Court of South Korea
RepresentsCorporate Number (Q18535356)
Data typeExternal identifier
Example 1Korean Air (Q213147) → 110111-0108484
Example 2Samsung Electronics (Q20718) → 130111-0006246
Example 3LG Electronics (Q162345) → 110111-2487050
Sourcehttps://www.iros.go.kr/

MotivationEdit

The Registration Office, the Court of South Korea gives identifiers to Korean companies, and we can check it on Registration Office website. So, if we create this property, we also can add this value in Template:Infobox company (Q5625028). --Garam (talk) 11:46, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  •   SupportPintoch (talk) 12:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Dhx1 (talk) 12:31, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support --Jklamo (talk) 10:17, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
  • @Garam, Pintoch, Dhx1, Jklamo:   Done Note however that the subject item in the proposal (Q18535356) is for the Japanese corporate number, not the South Korean one. ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:34, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Hoopla publisher IDEdit

   Ready Create
DescriptionIdentifier for a publisher on Hoopla
RepresentsHoopla (Q16253003)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainorganization (Q43229)
Allowed values[1-9]\d{0,11}
Example 1Abrams Books (Q4669411)1733022508
Example 2Dover Publications (Q2137023)1647736297
Example 3Deutsche Grammophon (Q168407)1619
Mix'n'match2442
Number of IDs in source88,053
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
See alsoHoopla title ID (P5680)

MotivationEdit

This would complement Hoopla title ID (P5680). Trivialist (talk) 16:35, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  •   Support --Eihel (talk) 18:20, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 06:35, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support.--Vulphere 05:52, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Dhx1 (talk) 12:32, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

gender educatedEdit

   Under discussion
DescriptionGenders educated at this educational institution
Data typeItem
Template parameter"gender" in en:template:infobox school
Domaininstances of educational institution (Q2385804) (and its subclasses)
Allowed valuesfemale (Q6581072), male (Q6581097), or both (possibly with qualifiers to indicate start/end times or year levels)
Example 1Loreto College, Victoria (Q14935198)female (Q6581072), male (Q6581097) (with qualifiers start time (P580) = 1875, end time (P582) = 1973)
Example 2Oakhill College (Q7073906)male (Q6581097), female (Q6581072) (with qualifier start time (P580) = 1976)
Example 3Wellesley College (Q49205)female (Q6581072)

MotivationEdit

Single-sex education was historically the norm, and is still very widespread. This property can be used to record whether the institution educates female students only, male students only, or both female and male students. Often, this status varies over time – many co-educational institutions used to be single-sex, and while the opposite phenomenon (a co-educational institution becoming single-sex) is far rarer, it is not unheard of; the qualifiers start time (P580) and end time (P582) can be used to express this. Another phenomena sometimes found is primary and secondary schools which are co-educational at some year levels/grades and single-sex at others; for example, my own high school Oakhill College (Q7073906), accepts boys in years 7-12, but only accepts girls in years 11-12 (originally it was boys-only in all years, but starting in 1976 it accepted girls in years 11-12, but has remained boys only 7-10). Or another example, Loreto College, Victoria (Q14935198), which from 1875 to 1973 accepted both boys and girls in years K-3, but was girls only in years 4-12; nowadays, it is girls only 7-12 (years K-6 were discontinued.) I'm not sure how to express being single-sex in some years but coed in others, but could be done using some other property as qualifier (I guess one corresponding to parameter "grades" in en:Template:Infobox school). SJK (talk) 09:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I created proposals for start grade and end grade properties. So, a partially coed school (single-sex in some years/grades, coed in others), those properties can be put on each gender to show which range of years/grades that gender is admitted for. SJK (talk) 08:29, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  • Comment from proposer: Now I've created this, I'm thinking maybe "educates gender" would be a better English label than "gender educated". But I'm leaving it as-is for now, if someone else agrees with me I will rename it. SJK (talk) 09:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    Another aside, I was thinking about whether any other values ought to be allowed other than female or male. I think, while some people do nowadays identify with various non-traditional gender identities, there is a lack of schools which specialise exclusively in educating people with such identities. While schools differ in how accepting they are of non-traditional gender identities (some schools are very accepting of such identities among students, other schools, especially those with a conservative religious ethos, can be strongly opposed), that issue generally isn't essential to the identity of the school in the way that being coed or single-sex is. Given that, I think the only allowed values should be female (Q6581072) and male (Q6581097). (If, hypothetically, someone was to open a school that only admitted students with a non-traditional gender identity, then I think some other value should be allowed for such a hypothetical school, but I'm not aware that any such schools actually exist anywhere at the present time, or ever have existed in the past.) SJK (talk) 09:53, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Given the other aspects you mention, maybe a better model would be to have a property like this but pointing to an item that has the details of the rules governing admission - something like "admission criteria" with value being an item that mentions gender, age range, any educational prerequesite, nationality or other requirement etc.. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:01, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
    @ArthurPSmith: There are millions of schools in the world. Do we really want to create a separate admission criteria item for each of them? Who is going to create this separate item for every school (a bot?) Also, whether the school is single-sex or coed is important information (especially in some countries where there is a significant mix of single-sex and coed schools), and making people go to a separate item to view/edit that info is going to make accessing that info very unfriendly. I think most schools the situation (single-sex vs coed) is relatively simple, or else even if there are some historical complexities most of the time few people will know it or bother to add it to Wikidata. I think the complexities of single-sex-vs-coed status varying over time can be handled with start time/end time qualifiers, and probably we could deal with the single-sex-in-some-grades-coed-in-others phenomena by introducing new "start grade" and "end grade" properties to be used as qualifiers. ("start grade" and "end grade", as well as being useful for qualifiers, could also encode whether the school overall is a K-12 or K-6 or K-8 or 7-12 or 7-10 or 8-12 or 11-12 or whatever school; while terms like "primary school", "middle school", "secondary school" often encode this information, the exact grade levels each corresponds to can vary from country to country and even within countries from school to school, so being explicit about the grade levels involved would help.) SJK (talk) 00:03, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
    @SJK: I assume there are only a limited number of different admission criteria out there that would need to be covered. If several different ones apply, or different ones at different times, the property could have multiple values. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:56, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Related: Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2018/08#How_do_I_indicate_that_a_school_served_only_black_or_white_students_during_segregation?. This is a much more general issue than just gender-specific schools. Plenty of institutions of various kinds are only intended to serve (and only admit) individuals of a particular religion, ethnic group, nationality or citizenship, age group, gender, speakers of a particular language, etc. This needs a more general solution than just "gender educated". --Yair rand (talk) 22:18, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 08:45, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
    @ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2: Do you have any comment on any of the issues mentioned above? --Yair rand (talk) 18:25, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

start gradeEdit

   Under discussion
DescriptionLowest educational year (Q10291405) (aka grade) taught by this institution. Can also be used as a qualifier of gender educated to indicate the lowest grade in which given gender is admitted (to handle partially coed schools, which accept both genders in some grades but only a single gender in others)
Representseducational year (Q10291405)
Data typeItem
Template parameter"grades", "years", "years_taught", "nursery_years_taught", "primary_years_taught", "secondary_years_taught" in en:Template:infobox school
Domaininstances of educational institution (Q2385804) (and its subclasses)
Allowed valuesinstances of educational year (Q10291405) (and its subclasses)
Example 1Camden Haven High School (Q5025774)Year Seven (Q17010108)
Example 2Lanier Middle School (Q21016026)sixth grade (Q7533207)
Example 3Austin High School (Q4823128)ninth grade (Q7039258)
See alsoend grade (proposal), gender educated (proposal)

MotivationEdit

Used to record the range of grades taught at a school, e.g. K-12, K-6, 7-12, etc. Also used as qualifier on gender educated to handle partially coed schools that accept both sexes in some grades but only one sex in others. SJK (talk) 07:36, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Note: The concept of having years or grades in primary and secondary is universal, but the number of years/grades and their naming varies from country to country (and sometimes even between different regions of the same country.) Using an item as the value (rather than a number) gives us the flexibility to use whatever nomenclature is natural for each country. For example, many education systems have an initial year of primary/elementary education before year/grade 1, but it is sometimes called Kindergarten (US, some states of Australia), Reception (England, other states of Australia), Prep (yet other states of Australia), etc. Also, in some countries the numbering is restarted at secondary school (i.e. Form 1-6 rather than years/grades 7-12). So, items lets us us the most natural terminology for each education system, which will minimise user confusion (most people who edit school items are mainly editing schools in their own country, so it will be easier for them if they can use their country's natural terminology as much as possible). SJK (talk) 08:02, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  •   Comment Instead of two new properties "start grade" and "end grade", I'm wondering if it wouldn't be preferable to create one property that enumerates the grades, including an item as value for each grade. --- Jura 12:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
@Jura1:. Thank you for responding. I think there are some issues with your proposal, and given those issues I think my original proposal here is superior:
  • the amount of data entry required. Consider a school like St Andrew's Cathedral School (Q7592321) which teaches 13 grades (K-12). With "start grade" and "end grade" properties, a user only has to two create two properties with two values. With your proposal, a user has to enter one property with 13 different values. That is a lot more work.
  • Infoboxes consistently display this information as a range (see e.g. en:St Andrew's Cathedral School has "grades" parameter in en:Template:Infobox school set to "K-12", not "K,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12". Storing this information as a range (with two properties) will make consumption by Infoboxes easier. (Probably some solution, involving e.g. a Lua module, could convert the set of grades into a range for display, but that will be a lot more work than simply storing a range in Wikidata to begin with.)
  • If we have 13 values in one property, there is no guarantee they will be displayed in the right order.
  • If you have to enter 13 values, there is a risk someone will omit one by accident. With only two values (start and end), accidental ommission is not such a risk.
One hypothetical advantage of your proposal, is suppose hypothetically there was a school that taught a discontinuous number of grades. For example, it teaches K-3 and 9-12, but not 4-8. Your proposal could handle that, mine can't. However, in practice, I have never heard of such a school existing, and I strongly suspect there are no such schools in the entire world – doing such a thing just simply doesn't make sense. In fact, if we went with your proposal, and found such a discontinuity, it would seem far more likely that it would be due to data entry error (accidental ommission of one or more grades) than due to a real discontinuity in the grades taught. SJK (talk) 00:26, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
  • The data entry and display issues shouldn't be much of a problem (e.g. with QuickStatements, you can just type the QID once and then let the tool do.). I think it would make it easier to query for specific grades.
    A second alternative could be to make an item for the covered range and use that. The item for the range could then list each grade. --- Jura 06:06, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
@Jura1: I still think my solution would be more friendly for data entry, especially by beginners. Beginners don't use QuickStatements, and QuickStatements is far less user-friendly than the default Wikidata UI (it is a bit of an "expert" feature.) I agree that your solution makes it easier if someone wants to do a query "find me all schools that teach grade 4", although I'm dubious as to how common someone wanting to do such a query would be. The main use case here would be populating infoboxes like en:Template:Infobox school (and other language equivalents); I think a range will make the template code simpler; your query use case is not something that Wikipedia templates need. Regarding your second alternative, I don't think that is as user-friendly either - what if the range I need doesn't exist yet? How many possible ranges are there? Are we going to create them all, or just on-demand? If the range item doesn't exist yet, then a user needs to work out how to create the range item. With my solution, provided the grade items exist, the user doesn't have to create any further items. SJK (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 08:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

end gradeEdit

   Under discussion
DescriptionHighest educational year (Q10291405) (aka grade) taught by this institution. Can also be used as a qualifier of gender educated to indicate the highest grade in which given gender is admitted (to handle partially coed schools, which accept both genders in some grades but only a single gender in others)
Representseducational year (Q10291405)
Data typeItem
Template parameter"grades", "years", "years_taught", "nursery_years_taught", "primary_years_taught", "secondary_years_taught" in en:Template:infobox school
Domaininstances of educational institution (Q2385804) (and its subclasses)
Allowed valuesinstances of educational year (Q10291405) (and its subclasses)
Example 1Camden Haven High School (Q5025774)Year Twelve (Q8050874)
Example 2Castle Hill Public School (Q5050142)Year Six (Q8050871)
Example 3Lanier Middle School (Q21016026)eighth grade (Q5349142)
See alsostart grade (proposal), gender educated (proposal)

MotivationEdit

Used to record the range of grades taught at a school, e.g. K-12, K-6, 7-12, etc. Also used as qualifier on gender educated to handle partially coed schools that accept both sexes in some grades but only one sex in others. SJK (talk) 07:38, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Note: The concept of having years or grades in primary and secondary is universal, but the number of years/grades and their naming varies from country to country (and sometimes even between different regions of the same country.) Using an item as the value (rather than a number) gives us the flexibility to use whatever nomenclature is natural for each country. For example, many education systems have an initial year of primary/elementary education before year/grade 1, but it is sometimes called Kindergarten (US, some states of Australia), Reception (England, other states of Australia), Prep (yet other states of Australia), etc. Also, in some countries the numbering is restarted at secondary school (i.e. Form 1-6 rather than years/grades 7-12). So, items lets us use the most natural terminology for each education system, which will minimise user confusion (most people who edit school items are mainly editing schools in their own country, so it will be easier for them if they can use their country's natural terminology as much as possible). SJK (talk) 08:02, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  •   Support David (talk) 08:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

emergency servicesEdit

Descriptionemergencies treated by hospital or health care organization
Data typeItem
Template parameteremergency w:Template:Infobox hospital
Domainhospitals
Allowed valuesone of a series of items to create
Example 1CTO Hospital (Q3664774) → <new item for :Yes>
Example 2Howard University Hospital (Q5500403) → <new item for :Level I Trauma>
Example 3Banstead Hospital (Q55076711) → <new item for :No>
Example 4Sinai Hospital (Q17034590) → <new item for :Level II Trauma>
Planned useimport & convert data from WP infoboxes
See alsonumber of hospital beds (P6801)

MotivationEdit

Anandhisuresh (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)anandhisuresh Tobias1984
Doc James
User:Bluerasberry
Wouterstomp
Gambo7
Daniel Mietchen
Andrew Su
Peter.C
Klortho
Remember
Matthiassamwald
Projekt ANA
Andrux
Pavel Dušek
Was a bee
Alepfu
FloNight
Genewiki123
Emw
emitraka
Lschriml
Mvolz
Franciaio
User:Lucas559
User:Jtuom
Chris Mungall
ChristianKl
Gstupp
Geoide
Sintakso
علاء
Dr. Abhijeet Safai
Adert
CFCF
Jtuom
Lucas559
Drchriswilliams
Okkn
CAPTAIN RAJU
LeadSongDog
Ozzie10aaaa
Sami Mlouhi
Marsupium
Netha Hussain
Abhijeet Safai
ShelleyAdams
Fractaler
Seppi333
Shani Evenstein
Csisc
linuxo
Arash
  Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine

There seem to be plenty of values in the infoboxes for these. Values range from simple "yes" or "no" to more complex values. I don't think the later would be suitable for another property, thus this proposal. (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 14:52, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  • Can anyone share a sample dataset or publication where we can source this information, and which demonstrates the precedent of describing institutions with this information? Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:59, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
    • enwiki and several other languages include this in their infobox. enwiki also has an explanation of the values, at least for some countries. --- Jura 16:36, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 08:59, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
@Jura1, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Bluerasberry: emergency services (P6855) has been created. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 14:35, 16 June 2019 (UTC)