Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

Property proposal:	Generic	Authority control	Person	Organization
	Creative work	Place	Sports	Sister projects
	Transportation	Natural science	Lexeme	Wikimedia Commons

See also

• Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending – properties which have been approved but which are on hold waiting for the appropriate datatype to be made available
• Wikidata:Properties for deletion – proposals for the deletion of properties
• Wikidata:External identifiers – statements to add when creating properties for external IDs
• Wikidata:Lexicographical data – information and discussion about lexicographic data on Wikidata

This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property Check if the property already exists by looking at Wikidata:List of properties (research on manual list) and Special:ListProperties. Check if the property was previously proposed or is on the pending list. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically. Select the right datatype for the property. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below and add it in the appropriate section. Creating the property Once consensus is reached, change status=ready on the template, to attract the attention of a property creator. Creation can be done 1 week after the proposal, by a property creator or an administrator. See steps when creating properties.

On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2020/05.

Politics/election

• Please review Wikidata:WikiProject every politician before proposing. Ping members of project using {{Ping project|every politician}}

parliament seats

   Under discussion

Description	the seats a party won/has is a parliament
Data type	Number (not available yet)
Template parameter	"seats" in en:Template:Infobox election and in en:Template:Infobox political party and in en:Template:Infobox constituency
Domain	legislative election (Q2618461)
Allowed values	[0-9]+
Example 1	2016 Cypriot legislative election (Q20948997) → participant (P710) → Democratic Rally (Q644973) → parliament seats → 18
Example 2	Denmark (Q5257930) → instance of (P31) → constituency of the European Parliament (Q2631496) → parliament seats → 13
Example 3	Denmark (Q5257930) → parliament seats → 13
Example 4	2017 French legislative election (Q20723970) → participant (P710) → Unsubmissive France (Q27978402) → parliament seats → 17
Example 5	Unsubmissive France (Q27978402) → part of (P361) → 15th legislature of the Fifth French Republic (Q24939798) → parliament seats → 17
Source	external reference URL, Wikipedia list article, etc.
Planned use	aplly to some items
Wikidata project	WikiProject elections

Motivation

A property to show how many seats a party won in elections or has in a parliament or how many seats a constituency has. I think is better to use it as a qualifier but it can also use as a property. See example 2 and 3 for example. Of course, if there is already a property that I can use, I withdraw the proposal.

Xaris333 (talk) 02:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment Is this property intended to be a refinement of number of seats (P1342)? --Nw520 (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
•  Comment The RegExp should probably be [0-9]+ --Nw520 (talk) 15:49, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
•  Oppose - I'm not sure how this is different from both number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) and number of seats (P1342). Husky (talk) 19:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
  • @Husky: and @Nw520: number of seats (P1342) is about how many seats an assembly has, not about how many seats a political party won or has in a legislative house. For number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) see the problem below. Xaris333 (talk) 14:54, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Xaris333: number of seats (P1342) is definitely wrong, my bad. Regarding number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410), after having a look at the original proposal the intended use for this property would be to declare the legislative body as an qualifier. This isn't really compatible with your intended use. Maybe it might be better to suggest broadening the definition of number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) instead of having a new property but since I'm not entirely sure if that makes sense I've withdrawn my opposition. --Nw520 (talk) 15:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

•  Oppose per Husky --Nw520 (talk) 20:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
• I have asked in Project Chat Wikidata:Project chat#legislative election but noone told me about number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410). Great, problem solved. I withdraw the proposal. Xaris333 (talk) 01:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

There is a problem. I can't use number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) as a qualifier. How can I show 2016 Cypriot legislative election (Q20948997) → participant (P710) → Democratic Rally (Q644973) → parliament seats → 18? Xaris333 (talk) 02:29, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• • I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "can't use" but normally 2016 Cypriot legislative election (Q20948997) participant (P710) Democratic Rally (Q644973) / number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) "18" should work --Nw520 (talk) 11:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
    • @Nw520: "property scope constraint: The property number of representatives in an organization/legislature should not be used in this location (as qualifiers). The only valid location for this property is as main value." Xaris333 (talk) 14:38, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I named the property "parliament seats" but it's better to have a different name so we can used it (if we create it) for other bodies like municipal councils. Xaris333 (talk) 22:18, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Dom Tubezlob Oravrattas Sarilho1 Yair rand Siwhitehouse Louisecrow Nomen ad hoc Xaris333

Notified participants of WikiProject elections Xaris333 (talk) 19:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

 Oppose - I don't understand the difference with number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410). Dom (talk) 05:08, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

@Dom: It can't be used as a qualifier. Xaris333 (talk) 23:15, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I am not wikidata expert, but as this property already exists I don't see a reason to create a new one only for the issue mentioned. I see at least two ways to solve the issue:

1. request for the update of number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) to allow to be used as a qualifier
2. modify your data model to make number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) usable in this new data model.

As elections are complex by nature, it's difficult to define them with the poor and weak with wikidata statements model.

So from my point of view this should be describe in more than one statement without using a qualifier. Dom (talk) 06:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

@Dom: Ok. Where can I request for the update of number of representatives in an organization/legislature (P1410) to allow to be used as a qualifier? Xaris333 (talk) 15:19, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

@Xaris333: sorry no idea where to find that. Dom (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

electoral system

   Under discussion

Description	the electoral system of elections
Represents	electoral system (Q182985)
Data type	Item
Domain	general election (Q1076105)
Example 1	2016 Cypriot legislative election (Q20948997) → electoral system → proportional representation (Q13365595)
Example 2	2002 New York gubernatorial election (Q7014937) → electoral system → plurality voting system (Q1211577)
Example 3	2017 French presidential election (Q7020999) → electoral system → two-round system (Q615255)
Source	external reference URL, Wikipedia list article, etc.

Motivation

The electoral system used in elections. Of course, if there is already a property that I can use, I withdraw the proposal.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xaris333 (talk • contribs) at 02:48, April 18, 2020‎ (UTC).

Discussion

@Xaris333: See Wikidata:Property proposal/Voting system - it has not been created yet, but was recently designated as ready for that. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Organization

See also Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending for approved items awaiting the deployment of currently unavailable datatypes

menu items

   Under discussion

Description	menu items served by this item
Represents	menu (Q658274)
Data type	Item
Domain	restaurant (Q11707), restaurant chain (Q18534542), bar (Q187456), main course (Q772630), entrée (Q6545590), drink (Q40050), dessert (Q182940), side dish (Q3688975), hors d'oeuvre (Q1628963), etc.
Allowed values	dish (Q746549), drink (Q40050),
Example 1	McDonald's (Q38076) → Big Mac (Q506796)
Example 2	Taco Bell (Q752941) → Pepsi (Q47719)
Example 3	Docking Bay 7 Food and Cargo (Q67087828) → Braised Shaak Roast (Q67088571)
Example 4	Docking Bay 7 Food and Cargo (Q67087828) → Smoked Kaadu Ribs (Q67412028)
See also	product or material produced (P1056), cuisine (P2012), typically sells (P7163), schema:hasMenuItem

Motivation

We seem to be missing a place to put menu items. A similar property was proposed before, but the suggested solutions do not seem to completely fit. We could use product or material produced (P1056) but, a menu might include Pepsi (Q47719), which is not something a subject produces. We could use cuisine (P2012), but this property seems to be specific to kinds of cuisine rather than specific items. We could use typically sells (P7163) but again, this property seems to be about kinds of products, rather than the products themselves. Though the definition of any of these could be expanded. Lastly, has part (P527) could be used, which is what I have been using, but it seems kind of odd that the parts of a restaurant chain (Q18534542) are its menu items... but maybe that makes sense? I would appreciate a more definitive answer of how we want to relate these things. If none of these are suitable, then I recommend that we create this property (or one like it). U+1F360 (talk) 20:09, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

Sebleouf
Teolemon
Vladimir Alexiev
Ash_Crow
AVRS
d1g
Dhx1
Tris T7 ^{TT me}
Gobonobo

Notified participants of WikiProject Food

•  Comment @U+1F360: I recommend changing the name to something like "specialty food." For example, McDonald's menu contains not only burgers but also cola and other foods. In China, they also contain Chinese food. So this property name may not be suitable. --Catherine Laurence ^discussion 11:18, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
  • @Catherine Laurence: that is intentional (see Example 2). It should be a reflection of the items on the menu (that are sourced). U+1F360 (talk) 15:05, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
• The description should be more specific. If it's applied to a restaurant chain it should specify that all individual restaurants of the chain serve the given food. I'm not sure whether we can hold items for individual restaurants up to date in a meaningful way given that there are lots of different restaurants. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:51, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

IP address or range

   On hold

Description	single IP address or range of IP addresses
Represents	IP address (Q11135)
Data type	IP address (phab:T235389)-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype)
Domain	organization (Q43229),
Example 1	University of Oxford (Q34433) → 2001:630:440::/44
Example 2	Wikimedia Foundation (Q180) → 198.35.26.0/23
Example 3	Johns Hopkins University (Q193727) → 128.220.0.0/16
Example 4	University of Chicago (Q131252) → 2a03:b600:640::/107
Planned use	Move existing values of IPv4 routing prefix (P3761) and IPv6 routing prefix (P3793) into the new field
See also	IPv4 routing prefix (P3761) and IPv6 routing prefix (P3793)

Motivation

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T235389

I would like to make a tool in toolforge that will allow a user to input an IP address and get the organization (Q43229) associated for that IP address. Unfortunately, you cannot query a range unless you have the start and end of that range. Based on the discussion in the previous proposal it seems best that a new datatype would be created for this property, one that extends from Quantity. Then organizations will be able to be queried by the IP address. U+1F360 (talk) 20:59, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

• After the property is created, the old properties should be deprecated. Once all of the data has been migrated, the old properties can be removed. U+1F360 (talk) 21:03, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Support. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 04:56, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Comment if you want to make a tool anyway, then I suggest you do the indexing there. Looking at the Phabricator ticket, there is not a huge appetite for deploying a dedicated datatype for this. − Pintoch (talk) 18:58, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Trade (talk) 10:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

corporate domicile

   Under discussion

Description	legal home of a corporation. Alias: place of incorporation, statutory seat
Data type	Item
Domain	administrative entity
Example 1	Finnkino (Q5450883) → Helsinki (Q1757)
Example 2	Please add more examples
Example 3	MISSING
Source	Please help locate a reliable source to be kept in the definition.
Planned use	record corporate domicile / place of incorporation for current and historical companies
See also	location of formation (P740), headquarters location (P159), located in the administrative territorial entity (P131)

Motivation

This is an essential property in recording data about organisations.

"Place of incorporation" is currently given as an alias to location of formation (P740). The domicile may be changed, and location of formation (P740) is no longer a valid choice for the new location.

It is distinguishable from tax residence (Q1473701), which should have it's own property created. enwp: "Domicile is, in common law jurisdictions, a different legal concept to residence, though the two may lead to the same result."

The headquarters location (P159) may be different from the corporate domicile / place of incorporation.

Please help complete the proposal! Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Franzsimon Kopiersperre Jklamo ArthurPSmith S.K. Givegivetake fnielsen rjlabs ChristianKl Vladimir Alexiev User:Pintoch Parikan User:Cardinha00 User:zuphilip MB-one User:Simonmarch User:Jneubert Mathieudu68 User:Kippelboy User:Datawiki30 User:PKM User:RollTide882071 Kristbaum Andber08 Sidpark SilentSpike Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) User:Johanricher

Notified participants of WikiProject Companies – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:22, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

• Why corporate domicile over place of incorporation?ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • If the concept is the same it does not matter which is primary. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
    • @Susannaanas: It does matter how we name our properties. There's a good chance that we will be stuck with the label for a lot of time. Part of a property proposal discussion is to pick the best possible name for a property. Given that a lot of our properties follow the schema place of X, place of incorporation feels to me a bit superior to corporate domicile.ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:15, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Support We could use improvements like this in corporate metadata, thanks! ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Support - PKM (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Question is this the same as registered office (Q65616986)? - PKM (talk) 19:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • As far as I understand and reading the description in enwiki– correct me if I am wrong – I would say that the proposed property is the permanent domicile of the company, which can in some jurisdictions have an additional registered office (Q65616986). Some other jurisdictions require they must be the same. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Use headquarters location (P159) David (talk) 06:53, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
  • I almost agree, but I think the use of headquarters location (P159) should be more strictly defined to serve this need. We will need the juridical home of a company, and I have a gut feeling that headquarters could be located outside the registered municipality. But if this is not the case, the property should be reconsidered. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Trying to summarize my understanding of close matches, please comment!
    • "Place of incorporation", "Statutory seat", "Corporate domicile", (possibly headquarters location (P159))
    • headquarters location (P159), tax residence (Q1473701), registered office (Q65616986)
    • location of formation (P740), possibly also "Place of incorporation"

Some cleanup is needed. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 11:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

•  Question Could someone show a model of all these properties for an example case to see how it would work? Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:46, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
• I will withdraw this and use headquarters location (P159). If there will be need for more distinction, the idea can be revisited later. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 07:44, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Till now I stumbled over ~20 German Nonprofits where "corporate domicile / Sitz" and "headquarters location / Geschäftsstelle / Hauptverwaltung" differ.
•  Support, preferring primary name "place of incorporation" Daask (talk) 15:59, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
•  Support but somebody should fill out with a couple more examples! ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

donations

   Done

Description	Sum of donations a organizations receives
Data type	Quantity
Domain	nonprofit organization like Naturschutzbund Deutschland (Q516755)
Allowed units	Euro, $
Example 1	Médecins du Monde (Q256538) → 3.027.763 EUR (2018)
Example 2	Aktion Deutschland Hilft (Q422349) → 44.160.071 EUR (2019)
Example 3	St John Ambulance (Q699370) → 103.630.960 EUR (2018)
Source	The DZI Seal-of-Approval (Q62019748) (a german certificate for Nonprofits) not only lists the total revenue (Property:P2139) of organizations, but also the amount they receive as donations.
Planned use	I want to ad the value for german Nonprofits to Wikidata, to create a list of the biggest donation receiving organizations. It couls also be used in the infobox for nonprofits.
Number of IDs in source	> 200 from DZI, but most nonprofits also report this in their yearly report.
Expected completeness	Completenes for nonprofits with a certificate.
See also	used like total revenue (Property:P2139).

Motivation

In studies about People donating (like this there's always a list of top Nonprofits, but never the same list. I want to collect data about the Sum of donations a organizations receives to create a list of most donated to Nonprofits. --Newt713 (talk) 17:26, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

• What about total revenue (P2139) with a qualifier to specify the origin of money, when the organization gets money from many ways, or if all the money are donations, total revenue (P2139) and business model (P7936) with value donation (Q1124860). --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 06:41, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Different total revenue (P2139) for one organization would be kind of complicated? If somebody requests all organizations by total revenue, there would be the need to specify this every time. --Newt713 (talk) 09:38, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Franzsimon Kopiersperre Jklamo ArthurPSmith S.K. Givegivetake fnielsen rjlabs ChristianKl Vladimir Alexiev User:Pintoch Parikan User:Cardinha00 User:zuphilip MB-one User:Simonmarch User:Jneubert Mathieudu68 User:Kippelboy User:Datawiki30 User:PKM User:RollTide882071 Kristbaum Andber08 Sidpark SilentSpike Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) User:Johanricher

Notified participants of WikiProject Companies

•  Support "operating income" might not be ideal. --- Jura 18:20, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Germartin1 (talk) 10:06, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
•  Support since an reputable source produces values for this property, but be sure to include criteria in the description text. Are donations from corporations included? How do they distinguish a donation from a grant (Q230788)? Daask (talk) 16:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done, but unit restriction is remaning. --Amitie 10g (talk) 04:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Described and Captioned Media Program producer ID

   Under discussion

Description	Identifier code from Described and Captioned Media Program (Q5263779), a program fully funded by the United States Department of Education (Q861556) which provides resources for students with disabilities.
Data type	External identifier
Domain	Wikidata item (Q16222597)
Allowed values	[0-9]+
Example 1	Ambrose Video (Q89510019) → 18
Example 2	University of California Television (Q7864132) → 1759
Example 3	AIMS Multimedia (Q89676824) → 11
Planned use	I'd like to see this added to Mix'n'match so that all the production and distribution companies listed could be linked on Wikidata.
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://dcmp.org/producers/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	I would allow users to input longer forms ([0-9]+[-a-zA-Z]+, eg. 18-ambrose-video-publishing-inc). Only the numeric digits at the beginning are necessary (eg. 18). A bot could remove the trailing name. If we wanted to be exceptionally lenient, we could even allow users to enter complete URLs, eg. https://dcmp.org/producers/18-ambrose-video-publishing-inc and have a bot identify the ID.

Motivation

Adding this property will make it easier for people to find accessible versions of published content, and make Wikidata's corpus of film production and distribution companies more complete. Daask (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

banned in/from

   Under discussion

Description	excluded from place/activity (by decision), -- illegal / illicit / forbidden -- in (place)
Represents	!permitted in /better representation of one element of the odd property dissolved, abolished or demolished (P576) (which has type constraints currently making it impossible to add to e.g. slavery (Q8463))
Data type	Item
Template parameter	none
Domain	item
Allowed values	pre-existing item
Example 1	chewing gum (Q130878) → Singapore (Q334) (qual: point in time)
Example 2	Daily Mail (Q210534) → English Wikipedia (Q328) (qual: point in time)
Example 3	alcoholic beverage (Q154) → mosque (Q32815)
Example 4	sandal (Q131704) / clog (Q167633) / shoe (Q22676) → Hindu temple (Q842402)
Example 5	blasphemy (Q200481) → Alsace-Moselle (Q2840162) (qual = until / end 22/12/2015)
Example 6	slavery (Q8463) → Qatar (Q846) (qual = date = April 10, 1952 = 16th Rajab 1371)
Example 7	serfdom (Q103350) → Austrian Partition (Q129794) (qual = date = 16 April 1848)
Example 8	benfluorex (Q421695) → France (Q142) (qual = date = November 2009) (reference)
Example 9	English Wikipedia (Q328) → Turkey (Q43) (qual = inception + end)
Example 10	Ulysses (Q6511) → United States of America (Q30) endtime = 1933
Example 11	Ulysses (Q6511) → United Kingdom (Q145) endtime = 1936
Planned use	very generally useful

Motivation

I'm not sure this is exactly in the right place, as this is a general property of diverse items.

It seems strange that we cannot say that chewing gum is/was banned from Singapore, clogs from temples, alcohol from mosques, the Daily Mail, the Sun, Breitbart (and soon RT) from en.wp. Of course some of these should probably have time qualifiers (targeted immigration bans, COVID travel bans...) This is a more willful version of "excluded from" which I also didn't see in the pre-existing properties. Now it might make more sense to exclude the preposition but then we would need to have "in" / "from" & "by"... which gets trickier. Moreover it's not clear to me that saying that chewing gum was banned by Goh Chok Tong would be overly interesting. Hope I've filled this out correctly. SashiRolls (talk) 23:33, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

FWIW: in terms of adding landing sites for further enrichment (other semantic roles), a bot could be written to create a page Ban of Qx from Qy item for every instance of Qx (has property banned from Qy). (The opposite might also be true, but first the property needs to be created.) SashiRolls (talk) 21:52, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment this doesn't feel quite like the right way to model this, though I agree some approach to recording such relationships would be useful. Maybe there should be an item for each of these ("ban of x from y") which captures all the relevant data about the proscription? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
• My intuition is with ArthurPSmith. Apart from that it might be misleading to use banned to describe the relationship of EnWiki and Daily Mail. The judgement of that RfC is a complex one that says that the Daily Mail can't be used as reliable source which is not a blanket ban. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

  Yes, the problem of en.wp's "deprecations" raises interesting questions. Reliable sources talk about "bans", while RS/N (as I insisted on the Daily Mail TP some months ago) talks about a "deprecation". In practice this is playing on words, because in general once outlets like the Sun and Breitbart have been banned / "deprecated" a removal campaign is begun (and the outlets are sometimes even added to the black list as Breitbart was). In other words, don't be fooled by the clever lingo: it is a ban, though exceptions can be argued for.

  In terms of ontology, the idea of changing a relation like Qx has p(banned in Qy) to an event like ban (cf. block (Q2125156)) has (p of chewing gum (Q130878)) has (p from Singapore (Q334)) strikes me as wrong-headed confusing because for the information to be noted on the original data"card" (here chewing gum (Q130878))) would involve all sorts of pirouettes. The proposal is much more straightforward as written IMO. (otherwise we'd be creating convoluted/overwrought/unresolved NPs (noun expansion) as stand-alone cards for events, if I've understood correctly. For information, this suggestion was created after looking into WikiLambda... whose goal seems to be to encode such relators (prepositions and verbs are basically relators).

  I do agree banned from is probably better than banned in (but that is cosmetic). Similarly "banned" could be created at the same time as "banned from" if an "event" reading rather than a "has property" reading is wanted, but as I said above, I'm not sure that Goh Chok Tong banning chewing gum is overly interesting. (bans would be better for the reciprocal relation, where it exists...

  Alternately I see that there is a property: does not have property, which could be combined with "permitted in", though that latter property (permitted in) also does not yet exist. SashiRolls (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

  If you have a law/RfC that bans something, I think it would be better to have an item for the law/Rfc and then has a statement "bans X" and one for the jurisdiction in which the law applies. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

  Why? SashiRolls (talk) 12:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

  @SashiRolls: Wikidata only allows limited data attached to a statement - in particular qualifiers cannot have their own qualifiers. By "reifying" a statement of an event/action etc. into its own item you can have a much richer description, which is what seems needed here. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:13, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

  I'm still stumped. In the examples above only one qualifier was used, though I can see that if you wanted to specify when something was banned and who banned it you would need double qualification (or two properties, banned in place & banned by agent)

  benfluorex (Q421695) has the property (banned in France (Q142)... qualifier: O° as medicine 1° since November, 2009). (ref-url)

  You suggest making an item Q99999999 (Ban of medical use of benfluorex in France). Interesting. What further steps would then be necessary to connect that new item to the pre-existing data item benfluorex (Q421695), which is the main subject of Q999999999, and which is the data item that has the property banned in France (Q142) that it would be good to know about.. I'm just curious how your proposal would end up being written onto the data item needing further description... ? What query could then be written to find all medications/chemical compounds banned in France in 2009? I appreciate the time you are taking to understand my question. This is perhaps a more pressing example than those above since Wikidata is telling people that benfluorex (Q421695) is a medication at the moment without mentioning it doesn't seem to be approved anywhere?-- SashiRolls (talk) 20:22, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

  @SashiRolls: So I think a somewhat analogous case would be seasons of sports leagues - for example 2006–07 Fußball-Bundesliga (Q27896). That is an intermediate item between the sports team and the league for a particular year. You can easily query for the linkages - for example all seasons connecting teams and leagues here. Is this what you're asking for? ArthurPSmith (talk) 02:08, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

  

  basic semantic triple model

  @ArthurPSmith:: Why don't you do what I asked rather than providing what you think might be "a somewhat analogous case"?

  (season is not a predicate of sports team) <-- actually, it probably is... but one which requires its own table in a traditional db. (sashi / 19 May 00:08ish)

  (banned in France is a predicate of benfluorex)...

  I have created the requested item so that you can show me how it is less kludgy than a direct statement of the property on the appropriate item (benfluorex): Ban of Mediator in France (Q94603373) I've provided all the references you need there for the item. Could you provide a SPARQL query now showing all the medications banned in France in 2009? What further steps did you need to take in order to make that happen? (At the moment nothing indicates (on the ban page) that Médiator is a medicine, for example... You get that "for free" by adding banned in Q142 as a property to benfluorex (Q421695))

  -- SashiRolls (talk) 02:20, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

  No I'm not suggesting making an item called "Ban of medical use of benfluorex in France". There's likely a regulatory act that produced the ban. A regulatory act that has an inherent name. The regulatory act also has a bunch of interesting meta-data.

Blasphemy might be banned in 1000s of locations. Adding 1000s of statements to a single item is bad for Wikidata. There also might be 1000s of things that are banned in a given location. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:42, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, just think of dry counties... I'm sorry that the RW Wikidata tries to represent is messy. :) SashiRolls (talk) 05:27, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

•  Comment Structurally this is not that dissimilar to educated at (P69) (past participle + preposition). While we could create Education of Qx at Qy items (by bot) which could then be enriched with all sorts of ancillary info (thesis adviser, subjects studied, degree obtained, matriculation date, praise in Latin, etc.), that wasn't done for the predicate "educated at". Why follow a different tack here? SashiRolls (talk) 22:04, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• It's structurally very dissimilar. I know of no person who's educated at (P69) at 100 universities. On the other hand if you just count the countries that have banned slavery you can easily go over a hundred. At the same token you can also find hundred (likely even more) things that are banned in a given country. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• Hm... My claim was that it was "not that structurally dissimilar": (past participle + preposition), not that the content (or number of members) was the same. At the moment, can you provide a list of the dates slavery was banned in all states using Wikidata? If so, how? If not, why not? I notice slavery (Q8463) currently has 43 identifiers... I look forward to reading your improved proposal for representing the data on this page. You might want to look at Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution (Q175613) with its signatories too in terms of your concerns about multiple statements. That item mentions "abolition" or "ban" only in the label. Its main subject "slavery in the United States", fails to capture the (effect / main subject) of the 13th amendment... How, @ChristianKl:, would you improve on this unsatisfactory representation? Keep in mind that this is just one case of the predicative relationship (property = banned (in Qy)). (Here is a more transient example (similar to "dry counties" above because of the embedded predicative relationship (sale of)). Here is another.) SashiRolls (talk) 04:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• When it comes to database modeling structure a N:1 relationship is structurally dissimilar to a 1:N relationship. If we would ignore database engineering concerns and only look at the ontological relationship when creating Wikidata properties, that would hugely damage Wikidata.

The 13th amendment could have a statement with P:newProperty:bans slavery (Q8463) applies to jurisdiction (P1001) United States of America (Q30). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:51, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Cool, we seem to be making progress. 1 person is educated at N schools (secondary school, undergrad, masters, phd, law school, med school, etc.), and 1 THEME is banned in 1-N places (by 0-N texts). Reworking it for the verb (ban) rather than the past participle (banned), as I think you seem to prefer, we also have [0-N texts ban(s) 1-N themes in 1-N places] (e.g. city ordinance + federal law ban smoking in federal buildings). Am I following you? (I'm not sure why you mentioned the standard db structure test). Of course, we often won't have the name of a text banning many THEMEs. The example of Benfluorex is an example... the Lancet article I cited above doesn't mention the name of any regulatory text. For the story of alcohol being banned in mosques, or sandals being banned in Hindu temples, I'm not sure there is a specific hadith or Hindu sutra that does the banning (there may be, or the ban on alcohol may be derived from the general proscription of alcohol as haram, and the ban on sandals may be derived from the general cultural practice that you don't wear shoes inside in Asia). Thoughts? Also do you have another example of a property that is an active form of a verb as your proposed "bans" is above? SashiRolls (talk) 19:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Whether something is an active form of a verb is irrelevant (how the English language models the relationship is not a reason). For the purposes of Wikidata database performance 5 is 1 and not N in terms of database complexity. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 19:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

First, I don't understand what you mean when you say 5 is 1 and not N. Could you explain what you mean by that, please? SashiRolls (talk) 20:24, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Second, it seems to me a very distinct semantic role is added by the active voice.

If we model the predicative relation on the active voice (bans) we need to have an item for the agent (or the text produced by agents with standing to ban).

If we model the predicative relation on the participle/adjective + prep (banned in), you don't need to have an item for the agent (Qz), just for the patient/theme Qx (what is banned) and the place (Qy) where it is banned.

Of course nothing prevents us from creating both an active property (agent, patient, place, date) and a passive property (patient, place, (date)). It's true that this is clearer (that both could be created) than in the case of educated / educated at. (Did Zellig Harris (alone) educate Chomsky at MIT? Did University of Edinburgh (alone) educate JK Rowling?, ...)

Finally there is the problem of Qx banned from Qn (activity), that could dangerously end up on DLP. (e.g. player banned from (playing in) league due to testing positive for anabolic steroids) SashiRolls (talk) 20:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

It's alright if you don't understand anything about database modeling, but then how defering to what people who do understand on it?

The cost of an edit is proportional to the size of the edited item. As far as your 'second' goes, Wikidata is currently at capacity for the amount of edits that it can do. Your proposal (for educate) might result in halving the amount of edits that can be done per day on Wikidata. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 08:17, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I did not make any proposal about "educate". I pointed out that it was not logical to create it. As for the rest, see your talk page, please.SashiRolls (talk) 09:02, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

While waiting for the property creators to wave their wiki-wands, I've created this (beginning of a ) workaround based on the suggestions above. I've added this to a couple other entries (Emancipation reform of 1861 (Q1192212) & Slave Trade Act (Q7539168)). Now what shall we do for example 6 above (Qatar)? Create an item for the obscurely-named FO 371/98464? I assume this is a UK Foreign Office file, since it is owned by the National Archive. It is not the original text of the proclamation, but a translation... SashiRolls (talk) 13:38, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Nobody suggested using instance of (P31) here and adding it just because there's no property that you like isn't how to go about it. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm surprised disappointed to see an administrator removing a solution that works. I imagine you will explain your reason for removing a working solution and either provide a better one or restore the working one... SashiRolls (talk) 15:28, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ select ?item ?itemLabel ?placeLabel ?date
where {
?item wdt:instance of (P31) wd:Ban of involuntary servitude (Q94993180) .
?item wdt:applies to jurisdiction (P1001) ?placeLabel .
?item wdt:publication date (P577) ?date .
}

https://w.wiki/RaN SashiRolls (talk) 18:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

•  Comment I have created a list of all the items (banned books, works, objects, etc.), classes, and properties I've turned up so far in this effort to improve WikiData's power to describe bans. There is also a bit of feedback on the experience farther up on the same page. Any property creators willing to put on their magic hats, yet? What still needs discussion? Active voice versus passive voice, still? SashiRolls (talk) 21:56, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

defines curriculum/uses syllabus

   Under discussion

Description	educational curriculum defined for region/educational institution/stage, syllabus actually followed by course/educational institution
Data type	Item
Domain	education in country/region, educational institution, stage/year
Allowed values	for curriculum, generally unique: e.g. National Curriculum for England (Q17016944) shouldn't be on every school item, but on education in England (Q3110820) only. Same syllabus could be present on several
Example 1	education in England (Q3110820) → National Curriculum for England (Q17016944)
Example 2	MISSING
Example 3	MISSING
Planned use	directly or indirectly answer the question: Which curriculum applies to a given school year
See also	Wikidata:Property proposal/Included in curricula Wikidata:WikiProject_Education/education_by_country_or_region

Motivation

An attempt at structuring this. Please help complete the proposal. (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 11:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

• Added "syllabus" to label/description. --- Jura 14:46, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Runner1928 (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2015 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:40, 11 November 2015 (UTC) —M@sssly^✉ 10:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC) DarTar (talk) 04:19, 18 February 2016 (UTC) Abreu Guilherme (talk) 23:59, 19 March 2016 (UTC) Netha --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC) Tris T7 ^{TT me} Tris T7 (talk) Vahurzpu (talk) 04:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC) Gnoeee (talk) --Epìdosis 17:46, 20 November 2019 (UTC) --Alexmar983 (talk) 17:47, 20 November 2019 (UTC) 99of9

Notified participants of WikiProject Education @NSaad (WMF): --- Jura 11:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Absolute Games developer and publisher IDs

Absolute Games developer ID

   Under discussion

Description	identifier for a game development company at the Absolute Games website
Represents	Absolute Games (Q3918839)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	video game developer (Q210167)
Allowed values	[a-z\-\d]+
Example 1	343 Industries (Q24228) → 343-industries
Example 2	Swingin' Ape Studios (Q2335341) → swingin-ape-studios
Example 3	Manley & Associates (Q6750574) → manley-associates
Example 4	△○□× (Miwashiba) (Q24081281) → miwashiba
Source	https://ag.ru/developers
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd].
Number of IDs in source	thousands
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://ag.ru/developers/$1

Absolute Games publisher ID

   Under discussion

Description	identifier for a game publisher at the Absolute Games website
Represents	Absolute Games (Q3918839)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	video game publisher (Q1137109)
Allowed values	[a-z\-\d]+
Example 1	Electronic Arts (Q173941) → electronic-arts
Example 2	Square Enix (Q207784) → square-enix
Example 3	D3 Publisher (Q1361716) → d3
Example 4	Virgin Interactive (Q1481820) → virgin-interactive
Source	https://ag.ru/publishers
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd].
Number of IDs in source	hundreds or thousands
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://ag.ru/publishers/$1
See also	Property proposal/Absolute Games game ID, Property proposal/Absolute Games person ID

Motivation

A video game online database. One of the most famous and comprehensive Russian-language websites of this kind. The pages of publishing and development companies are just the directories of the respective games (which could be filtered by year and platform), so many companies have both pages. INS Pirat (t | c) 20:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

AusStage organisation ID

   Under discussion

Description	identifier for an organisation at AusStage
Represents	AusStage (Q4822836)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	organization (Q43229)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	Australia Council for the Arts (Q4823575) → 555, 4059
Example 2	Adelaide Fringe Festival (Q4681716) → 251
Example 3	Australian Elizabethan Theatre Trust (Q4824105) → 4001
Example 4	Australian Broadcasting Corporation (Q781365) → 32043
Source	https://www.ausstage.edu.au/pages/browse/organisations/
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd].
Number of IDs in source	1,389
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.ausstage.edu.au/pages/organisation/$1
See also	Property proposal/AusStage person ID, Property proposal/AusStage venue ID, Property proposal/AusStage work ID

Motivation

The Australian Live Performance Database funded by the Australian Research Council. INS Pirat (t | c) 07:40, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support Dhx1 (talk) 18:23, 25 May 2020 (UTC)