Wikidata:Property proposal/Place

Property proposal:	Generic	Authority control	Person	Organization
	Creative work	Place	Sports	Sister projects
	Transportation	Natural science	Computing	Lexeme

See also

• Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending – properties which have been approved but which are on hold waiting for the appropriate datatype to be made available
• Wikidata:Properties for deletion – proposals for the deletion of properties
• Wikidata:External identifiers – statements to add when creating properties for external IDs
• Wikidata:Lexicographical data – information and discussion about lexicographic data on Wikidata

This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property

1. Search if the property already exists.
2. Search if the property has already been proposed.
3. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically.
4. Select the right datatype for the property.
5. Read Wikidata:Creating a property proposal for guidelines you should follow when proposing new property.
6. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below by editing the two templates at the top of the page to add proposal details.

Creating the property

1. Once consensus is reached, change status=ready on the template, to attract the attention of a property creator.
2. Creation can be done 1 week after the creation of the proposal, by a property creator or an administrator.
3. See property creation policy.

On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2025/02.

Geographic location

waymark id

   Under discussion

Description	unique identifier assigned to a waymark by Waymarking
Represents	waymark code (Q131302871)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	wm[A-Z\d]{1,5}
Example 1	Califaro Tank House (Q131302837)→wm3V8B
Example 2	Gropers Bush Public Library (Q73575126)→wm72WT
Example 3	Four Freedoms Monument (Q642848)→wm9KAM
Example 4	Birth of Mary parish church (Q2082637)→wm15WN8
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	1177409 (date : 2025-02-12 ref)
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	Waymarking (Q465630)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Geocaching (Q21830041)

Motivation

These codes are displayed prominently in the contents and URL of each Waymarking entry. Some Waymarking categories demonstrate notability. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 09:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment Seems an interesting enough website, with quite a lot of potential for usage on notable items covering the globe. It seems like there's a lot of (identical!) duplicates for many locations though, e.g. Greyfriars Church, Reading (Q5608388) -> WM15245, WM15246, WM1524H and WM1524J. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 11:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Lewis Hulbert: Interesting, WM15246 only exists to say that Wikipedia has an article about the place, which is to say that Wikidata has an item about the place. The "Wikipedia Entries" category would illustrate Citogenesis (Q18614873) pretty well, so maybe it shouldn't demonstrate notability? Minh Nguyễn ^💬 01:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  And some ID created by the same person, but each ID has the content of the Wikipedia article. —Eihel (talk) 13:43, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

  @Mxn: What do you mean by « "Wikipedia Entries" category »? A link? —Eihel (talk) 14:28, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

  @Eihel: https://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=d07ecae1-5397-4dfc-a44d-bb1fc4d8f8c8 Minh Nguyễn ^💬 04:50, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

•  Question @Mxn:, With Lewis Hulbert's examples, are you sure to use "single value constraint = yes" and "unique" in title? Since there are multiple possible values, this parameter does not allow you to add them all. Regards. —Eihel (talk) 16:38, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

‎Archaeological Cadastre (Greece) map ID

   Under discussion

Description	identifier in the Archaeological Cadastre of the National Archive of Monuments (Greece)
Represents	Archaeological Cadastre (Q131569092)
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Temple of Apollo in Delphi (Q10751359) → Monument&id=161857
Example 2	Kerameikos (Q630974) → Space&id=166637
Example 3	Monemvasia (Q654616) → Historical&id=165060
Example 4	Delphi Archaeological Museum (Q636928) → Museum&id=87369
Example 5	Ithaca (Q187471) → Natural&id=168098
Source	https://www.arxaiologikoktimatologio.gov.gr/en
Number of IDs in source	17,000 immovable monument (Greece) (Q131574095), 3,100 archaeological site (Greece) (Q29048715), 420 historical site (Greece) (Q131573702), 220 museum (Q33506), ? Landscape of Special Natural Beauty (Q131596951)
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974) / always incomplete (Q21873886) (the protection zone (Q131574369) may never be linked to a wikidata item)
Formatter URL	https://www.arxaiologikoktimatologio.gov.gr/search-data-map/?type=$1

Motivation

Not only geographic data, but this also attests to the heritage designation status of, and provides an identifier for, >20,000 Greek immovable cultural goods; thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 18:44, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

The Church of Agia Sofia (Q68490039) at Monemvasia (Q654616) has the map search address https://www.arxaiologikoktimatologio.gov.gr/el/search-data-map/?type=Monument&id=162754; if you click on the folder icon, you are directed to the data page https://www.arxaiologikoktimatologio.gov.gr/el/monuments_info?id=162754&type=Monument; the id is the same (162754); is the one identifier sufficient? Thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 20:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• Geraki Drspiros Sp!ros Cadm971 Epìdosis JBradyK Jimkats Magnus Manske (talk)
  Notified participants of WikiProject Greece. Samoasambia ✎ 21:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I checked to see if "https://www.arxaiologikoktimatologio.gov.gr/el/monuments_info?id=" would be sufficient for the URL format, but unfortunately it doesn't cover the "Museum" type. That's sad as this URL format would be better choice for linking to the actual data rather than having to do two clicks on the map to view them in a separate page (as clicking on the URL only zooms the map on that location highlighting the item).
Also, this online catalogue of the monuments (which acts as a replacement of "odysseus.culture.gr" especially after the outage it occurred to it last year) contains some location issues. Most of them not severe, but there are occasions which the location is totally unrelated. One severe occasion is Church of Saint Charalampus, Argos (Q112481362) which arxaiologikoktimatologio points at a location where another church of the same name exists but is unrelated with the one it describes (about 500m away).
In general, I'm pretty fine with this proposal. It's something that is needed now that we have this more modern digital list of cultural heritage (more modern than odysseus.culture.gr I mean, even though arxaiologikoktimatologio.gov.gr seems to contain much less description than the other).--Jimkats (talk) 22:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you; I have added Wikidata:Property proposal/Archaeological Cadastre (Greece) info ID, for the information pages (the museums don't have one), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 22:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

A good idea. The Cadastre's publically facing website is designed currently to be an almost useless partial representation of the underlying database, with the intent legal/bureaucratic rather than educational/scientific. Coordinates are indeed sometimes off and you don't get an answer when you offer a correction. Many entries are for zones of protection around an archaeological site, rather than for the site itself. Many ancient sites are missing because never formally declared as protected. Still, it's important. There is a scrape of the map view made by a friend as a Google Doc, some 6200 items, but I haven't tried to analyze what is missing. I tried using the coordinates in QGIS to join it to the nearest WikiLovesMonuments item in Greece. Where the distance was small I eyeballed them, and if the match was good (though it often wasn't) I added the Cadastre URL as reference URL (P854) where heritage designation (P1435) is archaeological site (Greece) (Q29048715) or protected building in Greece (Q29048696). e.g. St. Paul's Anglican Church, Athens (Q12872955). Those should be easy to extract and reuse once the new property is approved. Someone better at GIS should repeat the process, and there are plenty of new WD items to create. JBradyK (ToposText) (talk) 07:17, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

• This and the other proposal look extremely fragile and likely to break, but I guess this is the best you can currently find? Multichill (talk) 20:21, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm afraid it is—I believe this is currently the best public offering through the National Archive of Monuments (Q131567296), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 22:42, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Bluepages article ID

   Under discussion

Description	numeric identifier of an article on Bluepages
Represents	Bluepages (Q108492556)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	geographical feature (Q618123)
Example 1	Walmart Supercenter, Austintown, Ohio (Q128675184)→439824subject named as (P1810)Walmart Discount Store 2063
Example 2	Walmart Supercenter, Austintown, Ohio (Q128675184)→8103subject named as (P1810)Walmart Supercenter 2063
Example 3	Mesa Verde Post Office (Q97303757)→38235subject named as (P1810)Mesa Verde National Park Post Office (Colorado)
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	446,415 and counting
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.bluepageswiki.org/wiki/?curid=$1
See also	AARoads Wiki article ID (P12052), SABRE page ID (P11000)
Applicable "stated in"-value	Bluepages (Q108492556)
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

Bluepages is a Miraheze wiki that aims to have a prose article about local venues and entities. They currently have a lot of stubs about individual chain store locations in the United States, as well as some other classes of places. For those that use Wikidata in a geographical context, perhaps in conjunction with OpenStreetMap (Q936) and OpenHistoricalMap (Q25384440), access to Bluepages through Wikidata would complement Wikipedia for topics that are too obscure for Wikipedia’s tastes. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 17:30, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

• This can already be linked via Miraheze article ID (P11250)=bluepages:Walmart Discount Store 2063.--GZWDer (talk) 08:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
•  Oppose use Miraheze article ID (P11250)--Trade (talk) 02:17, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

Hiking Note trail identifier

   Ready ^Create

Description	identifier of trail of Hiking Note website
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	TiaoMi Trail (Q15928319) -> 616
Example 2	Water Pipe Road Hiking Trail (Q11130447) ->70
Example 3	Fish Road Historical Trail (Q10566953) -> 73
Example 4	Xiakelo Historic Trail (Q17036397) -> 238
Example 5	Caoling Historic Trail (Q10505024) -> 1452
Example 6	Batongguan Historic Trail (Q10892427) -> 1838
Number of IDs in source	1852+
Expected completeness	is complete, but new values may exist in the future (Q47169297)
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://hiking.biji.co/index.php?q=trail&act=detail&id=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	Hiking Note (Q131939361)
Type constraint – instance of	historic road (Q445741), hiking trail (Q2143825), long-distance hiking trail (Q131415018)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Hiking trails (Q21830118) WikiProject Taiwan (Q14944040)

Motivation

Hiking Note is one the most important hiking trail database and sharing platform in Taiwan. Adding its hiking trail ID number to Wikidata as an external-id can help the notation of hiking and climbing mountain in Taiwan.

Adsa562 Allenwang6212a Aries0d0f Cbliu Encore007 Jd3main Joyce Kuane Pbdragonwang Planetoid S8321414 Supaplex Taiwania Justo tntchn TongcyDai Winston Sung Wolfch Shangkuanlc

Notified participants of WikiProject Taiwan

Supaplex (talk) 08:24, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks Winston Sung for the correction: Hiking Note Trail Indentifier->Hiking Note trail identifier. Supaplex (talk) 10:36, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support--Allenwang6212a (talk) 03:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
•  Support--S8321414 (talk) 04:28, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Hiking Note mountain identifier

   Ready ^Create

Description	identifier of mountain of Hiking Note website
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	Yushan Main Peak (Q500275) -> 1
Example 2	Xueshan (Q707720) -> 2
Example 3	Dabajian Mountain (Q5207405) -> 28
Example 4	Dulan Mountain (Q15933833) -> 191
Example 5	Houshanyue (Q31603558) -> 228
Example 6	Xianjiyan (Q10884351) -> 219
Number of IDs in source	3076+
Expected completeness	is complete (Q21874050)
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://hiking.biji.co/index.php?q=mountain&act=detail&id=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	Hiking Note (Q131939361)
Type constraint – instance of	mountain (Q8502), hill (Q54050), summit (Q207326)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Hiking trails (Q21830118) WikiProject Taiwan (Q14944040)

Motivation

Hiking Note is one the most important hiking trail database and sharing platform in Taiwan. Adding its mountain ID number to Wikidata as an external-id can help the notation of hiking and climbing mountain in Taiwan. Supaplex (talk) 11:15, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Adsa562 Allenwang6212a Aries0d0f Cbliu Encore007 Jd3main Joyce Kuane Pbdragonwang Planetoid S8321414 Supaplex Taiwania Justo tntchn TongcyDai Winston Sung Wolfch Shangkuanlc

Notified participants of WikiProject Taiwan

Discussion

Supaplex (talk) 11:15, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

•  Support - Shangkuanlc (talk) 11:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
•  Support -Wolfch (talk) 13:09, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
•  Support--Allenwang6212a (talk) 03:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
•  Support--S8321414 (talk) 04:29, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Hiking Note chalet identifier

   Ready ^Create

Description	identifier of chalet of Hiking Note website
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	Paiyun Lodge (Q11078059) -> 133
Example 2	Saliujiu Cabin (Q115908859) -> 182
Example 3	Q132046423 -> 184
Example 4	Q11074486 -> 215
Number of IDs in source	147+
Expected completeness	is complete, but new values may exist in the future (Q47169297)
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://hiking.biji.co/index.php?q=chalet&act=detail&id=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	Hiking Note (Q131939361)
Type constraint – instance of	mountain hut (Q182676)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Hiking trails (Q21830118) WikiProject Taiwan (Q14944040)

Motivation

Hiking Note is one the most important hiking trail database and sharing platform in Taiwan. Adding its chalet ID number to Wikidata as an external-id can help the notation of hiking and climbing mountain in Taiwan.

Adsa562 Allenwang6212a Aries0d0f Cbliu Encore007 Jd3main Joyce Kuane Pbdragonwang Planetoid S8321414 Supaplex Taiwania Justo tntchn TongcyDai Winston Sung Wolfch Shangkuanlc

Notified participants of WikiProject Taiwan

Supaplex (talk) 09:18, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support--S8321414 (talk) 23:29, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

•  Support--Cbliu (talk) 02:07, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

 Support - Taiwania Justo (talk) 08:54, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

 Support - Wolfch (talk) 11:21, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Kulturenvanteri place ID

   Under discussion

Description	identifier of a place in the Kulturenvanteri database
Represents	Cultural Inventory (Q116810382)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	company (Q783794)
Allowed values	[a-z]
Example 1	Turkey (Q43) → turkiye
Example 2	Mecca (Q5806) → mekke
Example 3	Algeria (Q262) → cezayir
Source	https://kulturenvanteri.com/
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://kulturenvanteri.com/bolge/$1
See also	Kulturenvanteri.com monument ID (P11729)
Applicable "stated in"-value	Cultural Inventory (Q116810382)
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	Wikidata:WikiProject Turkey, Wikidata:WikiProject World Heritage
Proposed by	Soufiyouns

Motivation

Yamen (talk) Benoit Soubeyran (talk) VIGNERON (talk) Fuzheado (talk) Csisc (talk) Nassima Chahboun (talk) Kahoutoure (talk) Zblace (talk) Fawaz.tairou (talk) Sinuhe20 (talk) Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk)

Notified participants of WikiProject World Heritage: I propose to create a new property for places on Cultural Inventory (Q116810382) website (https://kulturenvanteri.com/). --Soufiyouns (talk) 08:04, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support looks ok. Zafer (talk) 19:26, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

  @Zafer: I suggest you rename the property Kulturenvanteri.com monument ID (P11729) to specify its scope:《Kulturenvanteri monument ID》or《Kulturenvanteri heritage site ID》or another alternative of your choice. Regards. Soufiyouns (talk) 06:42, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

•  Comment For example 2, "mekke" also works, and so does "testtesttest/mekke". This suggests only the last part of the identifier matters, with the rest being a slug (Q99601940). We typically don't include those parts. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 01:21, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

  @wd-Ryan: Thank you very much for this precise and relevant contribution. So I removed the slug and in this way the formatter URL is clearly lightened. Regards. Soufiyouns (talk) 06:34, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

•  Support I liked it. I contribute to kulturenvanteri.com. The suggestion looks good. --Sadrettin (talk) 07:30, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

  @Sadrettin: As I mentioned above to Zafer, I then suggest you rename the property Kulturenvanteri.com monument ID (P11729) to specify its scope with another identifier title:《Kulturenvanteri monument ID》or《Kulturenvanteri heritage site ID》or another alternative of your choice. Regards. Soufiyouns (talk) 08:21, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

  Hi @Soufiyouns, we can use 《Kulturenvanteri monument ID》 and for Turkish 《Kulturenvanteri anıt kimliği》 is it ok @Sadrettin. Zafer (talk) 08:48, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

  @Sadrettin: What is your opinion on this title change? Soufiyouns (talk) 06:54, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

I made this change [1]. Soufiyouns. --Sadrettin (talk) 09:23, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

@Sadrettin: Please also remove the suffix《.com》to finally get the title《Kulturenvanteri monument ID》. Thank you. Soufiyouns (talk) 09:41, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Ok. Done. Sadrettin (talk) 06:04, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Wikishire Page ID

   Under discussion

Description	wiki dedicated to the British Isles
Represents	Wikishire (Q22080966)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	item
Example 1	Scotney Castle (Q7435720) → Scotney_Castle
Example 2	Hexhamshire (Q22950131) → Hexhamshire
Example 3	Queen Elizabeth Land (Q1193277) → Queen_Elizabeth_Land
Source	https://wikishire.co.uk/w/index.php?title=Special:Search
Planned use	link existing items
Number of IDs in source	34,605 (source)
Expected completeness	eventually complete for Wikidata entries, but no commitment to add missing ones.

Motivation

To provide a check for items that may be lacking external identifiers and to be a secondary encyclopedic outlink. --Tæppa (talk) 13:13, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

Jheald (talk) 09:48, 11 January 2015 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Fabian Tompsett (WMUK) (talk) 08:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Charles Matthews (talk) 09:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Filceolaire (talk) 16:27, 4 February 2015 (UTC) Danrok (talk) 13:01, 19 October 2015 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits JJBullet (talk) 10:55, 27 June 2019 (UTC) Yirba (talk) 09:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC) Lewis Hulbert (talk) 12:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject UK and Ireland. Samoasambia ✎ 16:08, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

•  Support. Looks pretty good to me, a lot of depth of coverage - should be able to use it on tens of thousands of items. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 17:27, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
• Comment: "Wikishire" may be a wiki, but it is not a Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 01:50, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

  Didn't even spot that, description updated. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 01:51, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Architectural structure

‎CAMRA Experience pub ID

   Ready ^Create

Description	Whatpub /CAMRA's database is a comprehensive repository of public houses in the UK with a focus on the ales that are traditional there
Represents	CAMRA Experience (Q126195897)
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Jamaica Inn (Q1328052)→138910
Example 2	Aberdare Hotel (Q29489492)→170283
Example 3	Bar Three (Q26428465)→177607
URL match pattern	^https?:\/\/(?:www\.)?camra\.org\.uk\/pubs\/(?:[a-z-]+)?([1-9]\d*)
See also	‎WhatPub pub ID (P12496)
Applicable "stated in"-value	CAMRA Experience (Q126195897)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject United Kingdom (Q10816927)

Motivation

CAMRA's replacement to WhatPub with a new identifier system, now out of beta, which was a concern in the previous request. I have plans to automatically apply these identifiers to items that already have a ‎WhatPub pub ID (P12496) statement.

There are currently redirects in place from WhatPub IDs to the new identifier, e.g. https://camra.org.uk/COR/23 redirects to https://camra.org.uk/pubs/jamaica-inn-bolventor-138910.

See also the previous request at Wikidata:Property proposal/CAMRA Experience pub ID.

--Lewis Hulbert (talk) 15:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• Jheald (talk) 09:48, 11 January 2015 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Fabian Tompsett (WMUK) (talk) 08:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Charles Matthews (talk) 09:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Filceolaire (talk) 16:27, 4 February 2015 (UTC) Danrok (talk) 13:01, 19 October 2015 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits JJBullet (talk) 10:55, 27 June 2019 (UTC) Yirba (talk) 09:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC) Lewis Hulbert (talk) 12:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
  Notified participants of WikiProject UK and Ireland, @Back ache:. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 15:10, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

•  Support - PKM (talk) 22:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
•  Support - Back ache (talk) 14:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
•  Support - Tæppa (talk) 13:27, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Friends of Friendless Churches ID

   Under discussion

Description	Dilapidated church in England and Wales being repaired and owned by the organisation Friends of Friendless Churches.
Represents	Friends of Friendless Churches (Q1435648)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	item
Example 1	St Mary Magdalene's Church (Q166915) → st-mary-magdalene-boveney-buckinghamshire
Example 2	Old Church of St Afran, St Ieuan and St Sannan, Llantrisant (Q7083665) → sts-afran-ieuan-sannan-llantrisant-anglesey
Example 3	MISSING
Source	https://friendsoffriendlesschurches.org.uk/find-churches/
Planned use	link existing items
Number of IDs in source	60+ (source)
Expected completeness	eventually complete

Motivation

To provide an outlink for existing churches owned by the organisation. Presently only 2 claims about Friends of Friendless Churches and they're both P127 (owned by), which this property will prove. The website also contains outlinks to local history groups/other databases under the heading "Further information".Tæppa (talk) 17:49, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Outer space

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Space for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Space}}

Other

‎most populous urban area

   Under discussion

Description	city or town with the largest population in this area (country, state, county, continent, etc.)
Represents	largest city (Q51929311)
Data type	Item
Domain	geographic region (Q82794)
Allowed values	instances of urban area (Q702492)
Example 1	United Kingdom (Q145)most populous urban areaGreater London (Q23306)
Example 2	Maryland (Q1391)most populous urban areaBaltimore (Q5092)
Example 3	South America (Q18)most populous urban areaSão Paulo (Q174)
Planned use	replacement of statements modeling the inverse relation with instance of (P31)/of (P642)
See also	capital (P36)

Motivation

The most populous settlement in a territory is a very commonly cited piece of information that is not well modeled at present. With no specific property, the information can only be expressed by using a qualifier, e.g. London (Q84)instance of (P31)largest city (Q51929311)of (P642)United Kingdom (Q145), or United Kingdom (Q145)has characteristic (P1552)largest city (Q51929311)applies to part (P518)London (Q84). In each case, it is not clear what the most appropriate qualifier is: in the former statement, for example, the overloaded of (P642) could instead be any of country (P17), part of (P361), relative to (P2210), or characteristic of (P13044).

Accepting the need for a specific property, the only question is the direction of the relation, and I think the answer is clear: as with capital (P36), this information is best modeled by linking the parent territory to the settlement, rather than the other way around, since this enables use of a single-best-value constraint (Q52060874), where there are multiple values corresponding to different dates or measurement methods.

A similar proposal was rejected 11 years ago, on the basis of 1) the vagueness of the word "largest" (which the present proposal does away with), and 2) the idea that the most populous settlement of a territory should be inferable from population (P1082) statements, and thus doesn't warrant a property. However, that naively assumes complete information and consistent measurement methodology, and does not allow for any qualification or referencing regarding the "most populous" determination.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Swpb (talk • contribs) at 15:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC).

Discussion

User:Lectrician1 User:Pelagic User:Pallor

Notified participants of WikiProject Cities and Towns

•  Support This is useful for infoboxes and makes it possible to keep track of which city is the largest over time. Dexxor (talk) 15:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
•  Support, good idea! Pallor (talk) 21:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
•  Support while this information could be derived from a query, with WDQS struggling, it seem better to provide a short cut. Vicarage (talk) 19:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
•  Conditional support Only when a Wikipedia infobox must use this property (please name the template and wiki). Otherwise why not use WDQS? Midleading (talk) 03:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  You can't have a shortcut designed to reduce WDQS stresses and then clutter it with use qualifiers that burden the system more. Vicarage (talk) 05:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  There are only 94 items like London (Q84)instance of (P31)largest city (Q51929311)of (P642)United Kingdom (Q145). I can't see how these 94 items clutter WDQS compared to 100,000,000+ other items. And also only 2 of them have references, so this property could be 80% unreferenced if created. Also noting that the value can be inferred from population (P1082) statements via WDQS, which are more than 95% referenced and have more than 3 million uses. So what I see is just contradictory to what is claimed: there is complete information at population (P1082), and about 95% have references, but this proposed property can't provide comparable quantity and quality at all, can't even provide coverage on every country in the world (unless they are filled by a bot which inferred the information from WDQS). I would just suggest removing these instance of (P31) statements altogether, if no wiki and nobody is using them. Midleading (talk) 07:55, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  Of course it could be derived by a WDQS for all settlements in an area sorted by population, limit 1. And indeed it should be populated that way, without needing references, to save everyone running such an expensive query again. of (P642) is being removed of course. WD has many shortcuts to data that could be derived other ways, this seems a sensible addition Vicarage (talk) 11:13, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  I prefer to running a query every time. It ensures the users get the latest data rather than unmaintained, outdated and incomplete data added by P642 users. Why trust a bot running the same WDQS query only once a year when I can do it myself? Midleading (talk) 05:44, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

  Speed and ease of use. Its not as if settlements are jostling for position, and the vagaries of boundaries means its meaningless to say Leeds overtakes Bradford. You are very keen on the mul project to improve performance, so it seems odd to not be concerned about it here. I guess the real arbiters are the Wikipedian infobox people who will decide whether a slower WD derived answer is better than a static hard-coded one. And offhand, I'd struggle to write a query to do all the selecting, counting and limiting, when using the property would be trivial. Vicarage (talk) 06:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

  Wikipedia can't use WDQS at all. Data must be directly or indirectly linked from the item of the article subject, inverse links are not supported. So it is acceptable to create a property for use on Wikipedia even if WDQS can also be used. But in this case, the proposed property is hard to use on Wikipedia, because Wikipedia article of United Kingdom (Q145) can't find the inverse link to London (Q84), and London (Q84) doesn't need to link to United Kingdom (Q145) in infobox in this way either. Another problem is that Wikipedians want to keep data on the wiki page rather than Wikidata for various reasons. A lot of articles are still written as if COVID-19 never happened and Russia never started a war in Ukraine, and Wikipedians think it's better that way. So, if no Wikipedia really wants to use it, then it's not necessary to create the property that nobody uses, and that requires WDQS again for finding the inverse link. Midleading (talk) 17:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

•  Oppose the most rejections last time was that this is queryable, and that is still the case. In essence, this is redundant information. The argument that about the data has not been added to Wikidata is just as applicable to this property, and instead of adding this statement, the energy could be spent on adding a good population statement. Ainali (talk) 12:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
• In practice, I would want this property to be usually used with start time (P580) and have that as a required qualifier. That information is a bit more complex to get with WDQS and thus more useful to actually store.

In general, the usage in Wikipedia template does matter. Especially, for smaller Wiki's it might be a way to get them useful data from Wikidata. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

• Thinking about more,  Oppose in the present version. London (Q84) is not the most populous settlement in the UK but Greater London (Q23306) is. Any properties where the examples someone comes up when proposing it are wrong, is likely to be misunderstood in practice. urban agglomeration (Q159313) subclasses urban area (Q702492), which subclasses human settlement (Q486972). The term settlement includes entities that aren't cities on also entities like Rhine-Ruhr Metropolitan Region (Q164903). I don't think our iterms for urban agglomeration (Q159313) are reliable enough currently that simply running a query sorted by population with limit 1 would do the job. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, WDQS doesn't always work in such a complex world (for example, why London is a settlement, not Greater London, not Great Britain?). The only reliable way is to find a good source as reference, and this way it can also be used on Wikipedias. But I doubt anyone is going to do that after this property is created. Midleading (talk) 17:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  A more reliable way would be to create a "most populous city" or "most populous urban area" property instead of one about settlements. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 22:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  Greater London is not a settlement, its an urban_agglomeration, a type of region, which would not be valid for this proposed property. And most_populous_city won't work for regions nested in regions, as they all are. Vicarage (talk) 23:13, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  By the same logic, London wouldn't work because it's a city and not a settlement. In this context I would take settlement to mean instance of (P31) of an subclass of human settlement (Q486972). If you try to identify settlements by looking at the earth with a satellite image, you are seeing an urban area (or urban_agglomeration) and not seeing a city. A city is an entity with boundaries that are set by law.

  The term settlement is the superclass that covers both entities that are have their boundaries defined by administratively and entities that you would identify by looking at a satellite image.

  If you go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities you find a list where the item we have on Wikidata for a city usually corresponds to the "city proper" column. You can see that, by the fact that the item for that city is going to have the population in that column. On Wikidata, we have separate items for the urban area (and in cases where you have a single city with surroundings that's an urban agglomeration). For good fun there's also metropolitan area (Q1907114). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 17:42, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

  Good point that needs to be addressed. Perhaps we can solve the ambiguity of the term "city" by enforcing the use of qualifiers like criterion used (P1013)city proper (Q5124027) and criterion used (P1013)metropolitan area (Q1907114) if it makes a difference. Dexxor (talk) 06:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  As far as I know, within Wikidata we don't have ambiguity about how the term city is used. It means an administrative entity. It's boundaries are the boundaries of the administrative entity and it's population is the number of people who live within the boundaries of that administrative entity. We then have extra items for the urban area (Q702492) and metropolitan area (Q1907114) and someone who wants to know the population (P1082) can look at those items.

  I tried to run a few queries and it's interesting that queries often timeout. I however found Maryland (Q1391)most populous settlementWashington metropolitan area (Q2367175). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:23, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

•  Support Valuable information, useful to make readily accessible. I would really like to see this for eg all civil parishes in the UK, to identify the most significant population centre in the parish. The objections above that "this information is queryable" don't cut it for me, for at least two four reasons:

  (i) in many environments where this would be useful, eg the infobox of a Commons category, queryability is not available;

  (ii) there are queries where one might want to return this as convenience information for a large large number of rows: if that query was to have to compute the largest population centres, as opposed to just looking it up, that would not only requiring writing a query that is appreciably non-trivial, it is also a query that may not complete;

  (iii) the information can only be obtained by query if we have complete population information to query over. But as eg query https://w.wiki/Bczb for UK administrative areas reveals, this is not so. Bardsey Island (Q1991483) (population: 4) is not the most populated place in the civil parish Aberdaron (Q2556821) -- the most populated place is the village of Aberdaron itself, but unlike the island we don't have a population statement for the village. Worthwhile, therefore, if we can import this information from an appropriate reliable source (eg the full UK census) that does have complete coverage, or otherwise from a source that we can depend on;

  (iv) historic information is also of value -- what used to be the most significant population centre (but has since been surpassed) -- with a property, and an 'end time' qualifier, we can record this.

IMO, if well-sourced, the information is likely to be pretty long-term stable, so the data en:denormalization involved seems to me acceptable. -- Jheald (talk) 17:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I was already thinking of writing about other aspects, but this post came in handy. The negative comments are on a rather narrow range of issues, whereas the proposed feature has a much wider range of uses. It can be any administrative unit in the world, however small and insignificant, within which the seat and the most populous municipality settlement may differ. It can also be used to record historical data for administrative units where the most populous municipality settlement has changed over the ages. So I can see this feature being useful in many more places than London. Pallor (talk) 17:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Pallor the proposed property is not named "most populous municipality" and frequently the most populous settlement is not a municipality. If you actually want a property to store the "most populous municipality" creating a property called "most populous municipality" would be more better than the proposed approach.

If one person expects the property to contain the "most populous municipality" and another expects it to actually contain the "most populous settlement", uses of infoboxes are going to be unhappy. I don't understand why you would want that mess, if we could also create a "most populous municipality" property where most users likely have a good intuition of what values it will contain. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:56, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

It was a bad translation that I didn't notice. Thanks for telling me, I fixed it. Pallor (talk) 10:26, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

If you prefer using "most populous settlement" over "most populous municipality", why do you dislike having the property as ""most populous municipality"? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@ChristianKl: I have revised the proposal to "most populous urban area" and corrected Example 1 to match. Whether there is value in related properties with a different scope, I don't know, but between urban areas, municipalities, and settlements, it seems to me that urban areas are generally the most germane in discussions of "most populous". Are you happy with that? Swpb (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

@ChristianKl: ? Swpb (talk) 15:31, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Kulturdatenbank-ID

   Under discussion

Description	Unique identifier assigned to a cultural property in Rhineland-Palatinate.
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	St. Luzia (Q105318519) → https://kulturdb.de/einobjekt.php?id=663
Example 2	Neuerburg (Q1695008) → https://kulturdb.de/einobjekt.php?id=7219
Example 3	Trier Imperial Baths (Q697693) → https://kulturdb.de/einobjekt.php?id=45
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Formatter URL	https://kulturdb.de/einobjekt.php?id=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	Datenbank der Kulturgüter in der Region Trier (Q21589771)

Motivation

DE: Manche kleineren Kulturgüter in Rheinland Palz wie wayside cross (Q2309609) haben meist keine anderen Quellen EN: Some smaller cultural assets in Rhineland Palatinate such as wayside cross (Q2309609) usually have no other sources --Lulaci (talk) 11:53, 14 February 2025 (UTC)