Wikidata:Translators' noticeboard/Archive/2018/10
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After these changes, please. —MisterSynergy (talk) 14:36, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Asturian to Asturleonese language
Hello, I’m a wikipedia user and contributor (Jcfll44) from León, Spain.
I have noticed that the website offers the language “Asturian” but the problem is that this language is actually part of “Asturleones” just like “Leonese” so it is incorrect and non-inclusive to call the language "Asturian" alone. Nowadays, the name “Asturleones” (or “Asturllionés” in the language) is preferred by professionals as it includes all variants and avoids conflict. They are both very similar anyway, so I was wondering if the name of the language could be changed to “Asturllionés” instead of “Asturianu” on the menu.
This article actually explains what I mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astur-Leonese_languages
If this is not your area of work, who should I get in contact with?
Thank you very much.
Jcfll44 (talk) 14:49, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- I've been an administrator in Asturian wikipedia for 11 years, and that suggestion has no sense. Please, do not include political and historical issues. The Autonym for the language is: Asturianu.
- If this issue continues going on.. You also should ask that "Spanish" will be renamed "Spanish-Mexican", because "Spanish" is not inclusive..
- The "Leonés, or llionés, or llïonés" variant, is just one more variety of the 10 that exists (palluezu, pixuatu, llaniscu, quirosán, allerán, llavianés, llenense..) in the whole lingüistic domain.
- And "Astur-leonés, Asturleonese or Asturllïonés" are only alternative names for using in linguistic and historical contexts (and we are living in 2018), as a global domain, group or subdivision inside a family language..
- So let's use the Autonym, and forget political and historical conflicts.
- If you want mix languages and territories (it's a very bad idea) , then you should call it: Astur-leones-mirandés-portuguese-cántabru (because the language is present it these areas) and rename "Spanish" as "Spanish (Castillian language from Spain)" --Astur (talk) 19:51, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- What exactly can you see and where exactly? What do you expect instead? Matěj Suchánek (talk) 15:22, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think it’s about the MediaWiki language, affecting both Special:Preferences/UniversalLanguageSelector and the content (labels, astwiki’s name etc.). If so, the most appropriate place may be either somewhere on Meta-Wiki, or Phabricator. However, it’s a substantial change, so I think it requires a broad community discussion. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 18:58, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think you are mixing two different concepts: the language and the domains or family trunks. “Astur-leonese” refers to a FAMILY TRUNK that groups all the LANGUAGE’s subdivisions of this historic territory: Asturian, Leonese, Mirandese, Cantabrian and Extremaduran, exactly as said in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturleonese_Language. It is like saying that “Galician-Portuguese” is a language; no, it is a family trunk that groups Galician language and Portuguese language. Asturian Wikipedia is written in Asturian Language, not in Leonese language, nor Mirandese language, nor Extremaduran language, in spite of its similarities and common origins. If your goal is to write in Leonese language, as I can guess according to your message, you must create a Leonese Wikipedia apart from Asturian’s, like Mirandese Wikipedia exists (mwl.wikipedia.org) or Extremadurian Wikipedia exists (mwl.wikipedia.org). Of course, the first thing you should do is to ask a new ISO 639-2 code for Leonese (nowadays we have ast for Asturian, mwl for Mirandese and ext for Extremadurian). But Asturian Wikipedia would be written forever in normative Asturian language (actually, we don't accept articles written in its variants, as the community had agreed several years ago): it isn't practic at all to have a Wiki written in different languages all together (I say, is as if you wanted to have a wiki with Portuguese and Galician all together). --Esbardu (talk) 20:56, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- Since this seems to be a controversial change (despite "Asturleonese" being one of the names for the code "ast"), I've created a new topic at meta:Talk:Language_committee#Asturian/Asturleonese to see if anyone there can help. - Nikki (talk) 14:04, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- This is what I just replied to Nikki at Meta:
- (start copy)
- @Nikki: Hi. This ends up being not at all simple.
- You're absolutely right about how SIL and LOC address names in ISO 639–3 and ISO 639–2, respectively. But I am told that language names at Wikimedia are drawn from the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR). That's why language names are not available for definition at translatewiki.net. As far as I know, the only way to change a language name is to get it changed there first.
- As I know I don't have to tell you, projects generally have nearly complete autonomy in decision making. Consequently, it would be very hard to force the Asturian Wikipedia to accept content in the Leonese variant/dialect. On the other hand, there are other projects who manage that quite nicely; see, for example, Allemanisch Wikipedia, which has content in Alsatian, Swiss-German, Badisch and Swabian—and Swabian has its own language code, as far as it goes. So I would certainly encourage that project to be more open about variants.
- I'm not sure what else I can do, except perhaps to copy and paste this over to Wikidata. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:57, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- (end copy)
- The only thing I would add directly is this: If the consensus at ast: not to allow language variants is several years old, it may be time to allow a discussion that would either affirm that consensus or change it. After all, consensus can change. StevenJ81 (talk) (clerk of the Wikimedia Language Committee) 20:05, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
P6000
Hello.Please add "water footprint (P6000) created" to Wikidata:News.Thanks --David (talk) 12:29, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
On main page there are shown 14 points, even if User:Pasleim was changing this yesterday. Bigbossfarin (talk) 17:06, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- This is now taken into account. Pamputt (talk) 06:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)