Property talk:P5800

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narrative role
narrative role of this character (should be used as a qualifier with P674 or restricted to a certain work using P10663)

Represents	narrative role (Q109682310)
Data type	Item
Domain	fictional entity (Q14897293) or mythical entity (Q24334685)work (Q386724)
Allowed values
Example	A Study in Scarlet (Q223131) → unreliable narrator (Q650118) A Study in Scarlet (Q223131) → protagonist (Q215972) Narrator (Q3336121) → narrator (Q58363586)
See also	subject has role (P2868), character type (P9071)
Lists	Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 32,245 Main statement 5,582 17.3% of uses Qualifier 26,657 82.7% of uses Reference 6 <0.1% of uses
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Value type “archetype (Q131714), narrator (Q58363586), literary element (Q6647660), role (Q1707847), narrative technique (Q10428845)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31), subclass of (P279) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value archetype (Q131714), narrator (Q58363586), literary element (Q6647660), role (Q1707847), narrative technique (Q10428845) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#Value type Q131714, Q58363586, Q6647660, Q1707847, Q10428845, SPARQL

Type “fictional entity (Q14897293), mythical entity (Q24334685)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “fictional entity (Q14897293), mythical entity (Q24334685)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#Type Q14897293, Q24334685, SPARQL

Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#Scope, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#Entity types

Required qualifier “applies to work (P10663)”: this property should be used with the listed qualifier. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#mandatory qualifier, SPARQL

Qualifiers “applies to work (P10663), statement is regarded as spoiler for (P7528), time index (P4895), nature of statement (P5102), relative to (P2210), applies to part (P518)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL

None of hero (Q162244), villain (Q290691), supervillain (Q6498903), antihero (Q110910), superhero (Q188784), damsel in distress (Q2293837), silent character (Q21561303), anti-villain (Q12218723): value must not be any of the specified items.
Replacement property: character type (P9071)
Replacement values: (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#none of, SPARQL

None of player character (Q1062345), non-player character (Q466466), cameo appearance (Q191796), boss (Q468388), final boss (Q65706105): value must not be any of the specified items.
Replacement property: subject has role (P2868), object has role (P3831)
Replacement values: (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#none of, SPARQL

None of unnamed character (Q109934238): value must not be any of the specified items.
Replacement property: has characteristic (P1552)
Replacement values: (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#none of, SPARQL

Conflicts with “instance of (P31): human (Q5)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#Conflicts with P31, search, SPARQL

Type “work (Q386724)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “work (Q386724)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5800#Type Q386724, SPARQL

Standardizing on statement or qualifier use

This property is used both as a main value property and as a qualifier, with the same meaning, which causes a great deal of inconsistency and duplication. When used as a main value property, the work is given using of (P642) as a (mandatory) qualifier, and when used as a qualifier, the work is given using characters (P674) as a main property. I think we should standardize on one of these, move all existing statements to a unified format, and deprecate the other format.

Of the two, I would recommend standardizing on using P5800 as a qualifier. The P674 statement already needs to be present, so we can avoid requiring extra duplicate content by placing P5800 data there. Thoughts on this? --Yair rand (talk) 03:08, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

• Can you give samples of the suggested changes? --- Jura 05:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
  • @Jura1: For example, the statement
    ⟨ Jack Bauer (Q24)    ⟩ narrative role (P5800) ⟨ protagonist (Q215972)    ⟩
    of (P642) ⟨ 24 (Q56194)    ⟩
    would be replaced by
    ⟨ 24 (Q56194)    ⟩ characters (P674) ⟨ Jack Bauer (Q24)    ⟩
    narrative role (P5800) ⟨ protagonist (Q215972)    ⟩
    . --Yair rand (talk) 06:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
    • These are actually items with different focus. How does the current approach affect you negatively in terms of editing? Are you unsure how you should contribute? --- Jura 06:23, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
• Yair rand, for the reasons I gave in the proposal discussion I am against restricting the use of narrative role (P5800) to a qualifier (in short: those statements may be contested or there may be different opionions and some of them need to be qualified themselves (e.g. foil (Q5563727)). If there should be a preferred place, it should be at the character item, in my opinion. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:10, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
  • @Valentina.Anitnelav: Hm, I wasn't aware that there might need to be qualifiers for a narrative role. Would there be any problems with standardizing on the P5800-as-main-property system, and moving over the current statements that use it as a qualifier? --Yair rand (talk) 02:08, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
    • I see no problems with that. @Shisma: as the property proposer: what do you think? - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:44, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
    • It seems reasonable, but it feels wrong 😅 … Never mind, you have my support @Valentina.Anitnelav:@Jura1: --Shisma (talk) 08:46, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yair rand, Shisma: I'm getting some doubt about using this property only as main value property as I'm now thinking about characters from television series: Here a character can have a certain narrative role relative to the whole series (or season), but relative to a certain episode a different one (an episode can focus on a supporting or minor character or even the antagonist). It would be nice to be able to give the narrative roles also for episodes, but it would be probably too much to indicate those roles at the character item and also a bit misleading in simple queries.

I still agree that there should be some uniform way of stating those informations. I would propose to use narrative role (P5800) as a main value on the character item for complete works including seasons (books, plays, films, series, seasons) and as a qualifier for parts of works (episodes, for instance). - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:12, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

that is exactly my use case how I understood this proposal. I already implemented it and I think it is totally valid just to add the more general value as preferred --Shisma (talk) 19:32, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Using P642 to list episodes where a particular role is applicable seems to eliminate the need to separately have P5800 qualifiers on the episode items, I think? --Yair rand (talk) 23:38, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Probably you are both right. I just thought about series with a lot of episodes (the series with the most episodes in Wikidata has 15.762 episodes currently) - I don't know if there are characters appearing in all episodes, but if this is the case one would need to list all 15.762 episodes on the character. Probably it is quite rare that a character appears in all episodes of those long-standing series. To use the preferred rank is a good idea, one just needs to keep this in mind in queries getting all characters and their narrative roles for an episode. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 07:49, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Valentina.Anitnelav Thierry Caro Shisma Arlo Barnes Tsaorin SilentSpike Maxime জয়শ্রীরাম সরকার Wolverène Rampant Spirit Rtnf dseomn lijil

Notified participants of WikiProject Narration,

applsdev Arlo Barnes BugWarp Coloradohusky CptViraj Cupkake4Yoshi Cwf97 Cynde Moya Danrok Datumizer Dexxor Diggr Dispenser Dollarsign8 DoublePendulumAttractor EdoAug Edolusill Eniehack Facenapalm Floyd-out FullyAwesome Harshrathod50 Jean-Frédéric Jotamide Keplersj Kirilloparma Lewis Hulbert LotsofTheories Macocobovi Macrike Master Of Ninja Matthias M. Metafire18 Nicereddy Nw520 Oduci Poslovitch Rampagingcarrot RampantSpirit Sanqui Santer Sight Contamination Sir Lothar thgiex Tomodachi94 VGPaleontologist Wd-Ryan WikiSyn YotaMoteuchi

Notified participants of WikiProject Video_games (as they have this property listed in their property tables as a qualifier) @Yair rand: it seems to me that there is consensus to give this kind of information at the character. If nobody objects I would go ahead and move information given at characters (P674) to the character. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 11:05, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

• I'd rather leave it as it was originally proposed. --- Jura 15:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

  @Jura1: As a qualifier for characters (P674)? How would you suggest dealing with the situation mentioned above by Valentina.Anitnelav, where the narrative role itself needs qualifying? --Yair rand (talk) 07:59, 25 March 2019 (UTC)