User talk:Jeblad/Archive 1

Latest comment: 10 years ago by Fnielsen in topic nb/no


Welcome to Wikidata, Jeblad!

Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike, and you can help. Go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!
Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familarise yourself with:

If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Regards, --Jitrixis (talk | support my candidacy) 13:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Translate codes/numbers edit

Ok, thanks. --Dalton2 (talk) 12:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

nb/no edit

Hei, du har jo skrevet litt om nb/no-problematikken på Tinget/Torget. Har du noen tanker om hva vi kan gjøre med dette? Så lenge folk kan velge både "nb" og "no" som språk i innstillingene sine, risikerer vi å ende opp med masse dobbeltarbeid her, ved at folk skriver etikett-tekster på både "nb" og "no". Jeg har f.eks. satt brukerspråket mitt til "nb". Da jeg besøkte en tilfeldig side og la inn beskrivelse, oppdaget jeg først etterpå at noen allerede hadde lagt inn beskrivelse for "no"... Se også Wikidata:Project_chat#Wrong_link_to_Norwegian_Main_Page. Vet du om det har vært diskutert å fjerne "no" som brukerspråk? Danmichaelo (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Har tatt det opp, men tror ikke det blir noen løsning med det første. De mest aktuelle løsningene er å enten omdirigere alle oppslag til slike fellesspråk til en enkelt versjon av et språk (gjøre de til et alias), eller å initiere en dialog som lar brukere velge en av flere versjoner. Jeblad (talk) 20:09, 24 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Har ett problem på det temat: här. Försökte rätta robotens misstag här, men hur ändrar jag det som är skrivet i "no" när jag redigerar manuellt? Väljer jag bokmål för manuellt redigering, så kan jag tydligen bara redigera "nb". Mina inställningar i grunden är svenska. -- 21:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Kanskje noen kan kjøre en bot som kan flytte alle oppføringer fra no til nb? Det kommer en løsning for å gjøre dette manuelt. Da setter en opp Babel på brukersiden til å inkludere no og nb og så må en kopiere manuelt. Jeblad (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
Så allt som är inlaggt på "no" ska tömmas och flyttas till "nb"? -- Lavallen (block) 08:39, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
I think the translations of no is closed now for all system messages, but I can double check next week. Jeblad (talk) 12:15, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
Jag syftade nog inte på system messages, utan på vad som ligger under label/description/alias i varje item. Man kanske borde stänga möjligheten att lägga "nya" saker under "no" i dessa. Jag vet inte om man kan lägga in något den vägen manuellt, men det går (tydligen) med apianrop. -- Lavallen (block) 12:20, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
Systemmeldinger og multilingual strings vil følge hverandre. Problemet består i at språket i brukergrensesnittet kan settes til no og at dette bør begrenses til nn og nb. Språkkoden no er en metakode for både nn og nb, og det vil skape problemer om den er tilgjengelig. Det er tilsvarende problemer for flere språk med avvikende eller feil språkkode. Merk at det betyr ikke at siteid er feil, disse kan være avvikende i forhold til language code. Jeblad (talk) 12:26, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
Bug 44379 - Disallow use of erroneous or deprecated language codes Jeblad (talk) 12:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
Jepp, danska och catalanska har väl delvis samma problem om jag minns rätt. Jag slutar därmed själv för egen del att lägga in något i language=no, sitelink=nowiki är dock fritt fram. -- Lavallen (block) 13:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Norsk bokmål og Norsk bokmål - eneggede tvillinger edit

Vi har to språkkoder som begge heter "Norsk bokmål". Dette gjør jo at det blir vanskelig å se forskjell på "no" og "nb". (Ikke at jeg helt ser poenget med å fylle ut label og description for "no", men det ligger jo der, og mange items har beskrivelse på "no" og ikke på "nb".) Har du noen ide om hvordan dette kan løses, eller om det i det hele tatt er mulig - eller ønskelig? (oppdatering). - Jeg får av diskusjonen over inntrykk av at "no" ikke skal brukes for etiketter og beskrivelser. Er det mulig å la "no" hete "Norsk" for etiketter og beskrivelser, og "Norsk bokmål" for iw-lenker, eller er det som jeg frykter, at dette hentes fra samme tabell? - Soulkeeper (talk) 13:57, 10 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Etiketter og beskrivelser følger språkkodene og skal nynorsk få strenger på riktig målform så må det brukes nn for nynorsk. Samtidig så må også bokmål følge språkkoden nb. Språkkoden no har ingen entydig tolking, den er både bokmål og nynorsk. Språkkoden no er fjernet fra systemmeldinger og den skal også være fjernet fra de fleste andre steder, men den er fortsatt tilgjengelig via Babel. Også inne på bokmålspedia er språkkoden nb, men subdomenet som brukes er no. Vi kan bruke no i fallback på lik linje med engelsk, men jeg er redd det skaper masse diskusjon om noen ser en bokmålsmelding/-etikett/-beskrivelse på nymorsk og omvendt for bokmål. — Jeblad 14:15, 10 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Ok, problemet så jeg fordi jeg oppga både "nb" og "no" i Babel-malen på min brukerside. Jeg fikk derfor dobbel etikett/beskrivelse for "Norsk bokmål"; en for "nb" og en for "no". Har nå fjernet "no" fra Babel, satser på at det holder. Men la som sagt merke til at det ligger mange etiketter under "no" (som da ingen vil få glede av?). - Soulkeeper (talk) 14:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Vi kan få noen til å kjøre en bot og flytte de fra no til nb. Vi bør absolutt få fikset Babel-malen, nå kan metaspråk listes og det er uheldig. Kanskje vi bør fikse lista på "vår side", litt usikker på hva som er riktig i dette tilfellet. Det vil være fint om du har innspill på Bug 44379 - Disallow use of erroneous or deprecated language codes. — Jeblad 14:55, 10 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Har ikke noe å tilføye til det du allerede har skrevet der, men jeg stemte i hvert fall på buggen. - Soulkeeper (talk) 17:14, 10 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

På min Babel har jeg "no-1" og der kommer edit-felt til "no", men så vidt jeg forstår på diskussionen har det ikke så meget mening at fylde information ud om "no". Er det korrekt? — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 22:54, 1 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Redirect edit

I saw your comment on the 'Merge' bug.

You mentioned that a redirect should be provided to preserve links after a merge.

I can see why this is useful. How do I do this? Filceolaire (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

What I said in Bug 38664 relates to a future merge feature, it is not about what you can do now. The same applies to your question on Project chat. Jeblad (talk) 23:43, 28 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki:Createitem-summary edit

You mentioned on MediaWiki talk:Createitem-summary a few days ago that "After next rollout this message should either be moved to Mediawiki:Wikibase-createitem-summary or deleted." Is this still the case? Special:CreateItem seems to still be using the current page. --Yair rand (talk) 01:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Not merged yet! See [1] Jeblad (talk) 01:41, 5 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Localization edit

Hi, how can we set MediaWiki:Sitesupport-url to show links in user language? like this for Farsi

In project chat you mentioned about IME. what is it? ▬ Reza1615 / T 10:24, 4 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Links in the sidebar must be registered as localized, if not then they will not work properly. It should be described on Mediwiki.org how to do that. I can take a look later, we should probably localize all of the links. IME is a tool to enter characters in other scripts, like the scripts for Farsi. If you open the ULS dialog, for me it is to the left of my log in name on top right and reads "English", you will then at the bottom of the dialog find an entry for "input settings" or "input method" or something similar. Click on that and make sure it is not disabled. When you open a text box of some kind you will then have a small keyboard in lower right (or opposite) that flows in and out of the text box. That keyboard can be used to set the actual language and input method. Different languages may have slightly different alternative input methods, for example I made a solution for Norwegian - Normal transliteration and that will change "aa" into "å". The letter "å" is not easy to type even on many west European keyboard layouts. Something similar can be set up for other languages and other keyboards. Jeblad (talk) 12:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for your complete answer. I use Farsi interface and it has this bug so working with ULS dialog is boring :( would you please help us to solve this bug? thanks ▬ Reza1615 / T 12:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

Toolkit edit

@Jeb: Are you planing a web apps ? I created a script-based project (Wikidata:Scalable harversting toolkit) to answer our need, but I increasingly wonder if I misunderstood your project (I guess because I'am deeply digging into/discovering python script creation recently). Yug (talk) 23:18, 2 April 2013 (UTC) (please, continue the talk o the Wikidata:Project Chat page)

My original question was how to handle the non-scalability we now face by increasingly depending on bots. Instead of relying on editors we are relying on bot operators. That will not scale very well. On the web apps, it is more like a special page with an additional script that makes it possible for editors to do repetitive tasks that includes some preprocessing of the uploaded material. It can be from a spreadsheet or a RDF-file. — Jeblad 17:12, 3 April 2013 (UTC)Reply

Flooders edit

Vad kallar ni "Flooders" på Norsk? -- Lavallen (block) 18:52, 7 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Ikke helt sikker på hva du mener med "flooders", muligens det vi kaller "spammers". Det engelske begrepet har satt seg. Jeblad (talk) 23:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Flooders är den nya användargruppen här. På svenska kallar vi dem "Botanvändare" nu och det känns som man kan förväxla med robot/bot. -- Lavallen (block) 06:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Jeg har vist ikke fulgt med i de siste debattene… Vi hadde en diskusjon på Tinget for et år siden, men jeg husker ikke hva de ble kalt da eller om den engelske betegnelsen ble brukt. Uansett er jeg ganske sikker på at de ikke ble kalt flooders. Jeblad (talk) 06:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Du borde se det i mitten på sidan här. -- Lavallen (block) 07:14, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello jeblad, do you know what this message you introduced means? Thanks, Nemo 21:42, 9 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Its a coming special page. Not sure about the status. Jeblad (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Swedish properties edit

If you have the time: Wikidata:Property_proposal/Place#Sweden. best wishes. --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

I think it is a good example for the problems we run into when we have no real idea about what an identifier is and how to handle it. In your case you use a property with local scope because the identifier isn't able to carry any scope. As it is now the solution is acceptable, but for the future it should be fixed to use proper identifiers that carry the local scope. Then it would be possible to do inference with the municipality code. With the current solution an inference engine must possess knowledge about the specific Swedish numbering of places to work. That is simply the wrong way to do it. Jeblad (talk) 17:14, 10 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
I share some of your concerns, but I try to think about it like this. This might be the year of Wikidata where we create a lot of properties and gather data from infoboxes. There would be a lot of better ways of doing this, but people are impatient and want to work on their favorite piece of information. Once Wikidata will be more mature and most data is transferred there will be time to discuss how to make the database more intelligent. There are a lot of interesting concepts out there (You probably understand them better than I do) and I'm sure we will have a good laugh about the way we handled things in the beginning. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:01, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
To be able to identify which item on Wikidata is related to which line in the reports of Statistiska Centralbyrån, we need something that helps us identify them. The names do not help, there can be the same name in several places in the databases and they maybe isn't the same as on Wikipedia, and the names can change from one report to another. The coordinates are not free information, that is of no help. The codes from European Union is of very little help, since Eurostats has another division in their reports than SCB has. Norway is in that part better in following EU-standards than Sweden is. Unfortunatly, Earth (Q2) is divided in > 190 nations, all with their own administration and standards. Wikidata can choose to describe Q2 as it thinks it should look like or try to describe it as it is IRL. If it tries the first one, it will be of very little use for anybody than the Wikignomes, who maybe becomes happy with that, but they will be very lonely. -- Lavallentalk(block) 15:01, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
You are absolutely right. The world is a complicated place and no one concept will fully describe it. The created properties are currently the best solution (accounting for a lot of things). If the community develops and we find better solutions the changes can be made rather quickly. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
@Lavallen: Wikidata is linked data and one of the central concets is to infer additional information from already provided data. If the properties are irregular like place identificators for Sweden an inferrence engine need special knowledge that a place is Swedish before it can traverse information about it. That creates a dead end,. Properties should never encode information that resides in the object if the information is expected to be used for traversal. A property for municipality code should be globally usable and the context for the code should be given as part of the URI used as identifier. If we chose to use these identifiers as litteral data they are usable as "dumb identifiers" but they are nearly useless for anything more than that. Looks nice, close to useless for anything that has not encoded special knowledge about them. Jeblad (talk) 10:02, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
Then you imply that Swedish municipalities have very much in common with municipalities in Kazachstan. They don't, they are a unique entity. Swedish Municipalities have very little in common even with Swedish municipalities as they looked 1863. The only thing they have in common is maybe the English name. That become even more obvious when you look at Swedish County counsils. From the English name, it looks like they have something to do with Counties. They don't. They are organised and governed in the same way as Swedish Municipalities, but have other resposibilities and obligations. Earlier than 1975, I do not know if even Swedish Municipalities could litteraly be described as a geopraphic feature, since real estates where technically not located inside any municipality. In old statistics, such things as barren vegetation (Q10534768) where not always calculated as a part of the area of a municipality since it was regarded as worthless, it gave no tax and no other income for the municipality. -- Lavallentalk(block) 10:24, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
You argue from a point where you want to find something unique with Swedish municipalities to safeguard the implementation of domain-specific properties. Want a chocking news? There is something unique about most things, but that is not a problem in linked data. You should construct the properties (or really the predicates) in a reusable manner that can use URIs as identifiers. The identifiers does not need to know about how a Swedish municipality was handled in 1863, it should only identify our item as same as some other external entitys municipality. Actually the only thing we need is a same as that points out to the external entity and is dereferencable.
In linked data you have three URIs that interact; the subject, the predicate and the object. Our item is the subject, our property is the predicate, our data values are the objects. Most of our objects so far are data litterals, but at some point we must try to start thinking about using URIs to identify the the objects or we simply will not function as a linked data repository, we will just be a key-value store with a bunch of domain specific keys. Jeblad (talk) 18:45, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
Once added I don't think the properties will ever be removed, so in my opinion it would be better to wait an do this the right way. Jeblad (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
I don't think that that is necessarily true. The changes could even be made without changing the UI. Properties could be combined into groups. The data in the group could be assigned to another pseudo-property that has a matrix as datatype. We could also make a conversion tool to convert the matrix into another format. All these changes could happen without anybody ever noticing that the data structure behind the data became more intelligent. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

controlled place name edit

Hello, your opinion is welcome here about how different is the property you proposed from another one, thanks. Oliv0 (talk) 06:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Swiss municipality code (P771) edit

The property Swiss municipality code (P771) is available now. I saw that you participated in the discussion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 07:58, 7 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

In my opinion this property is equally bad as the ones described at #Swedish properties. Jeblad (talk) 17:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

controlled place name edit

Jag vet inte om jag helt förstår propertyn "controlled place name". Kan du försöka reda ut det på norsk här? -- Lavallentalk(block) 17:58, 10 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Det er et eller flere navn på et objekt som kontrolleres av en eller annen autoritet. For eksempel så kan du ha et fjell som kan ha forskjellige navn når det ses fra forskjellig sted, typisk to forskjellige dalfører hvis det deler disse, og hvor skriveform kan være gitt av tidligere rettskriving og/eller dialekter. Nynorsk-/bokmålproblematikk er bare en side av det, det kan også være andre forskjeller. Disse navnene er så vurdert av en eller annen autoritet, ofte Språkrådet, som så har kommet til at noen er riktigere enn andre. I tilfellet med stedsnavn som får betydning for skilting og postgang ol så vil de offisielle formene bli valgt. I noen tilfeller kan forskjellene i navn være relativt store, mens i andre tilfeller er de mer overfladiske. På Wd vil vi da ha et element for objektet, og dette objektet kan ha flere navn. Det er disse navnene som har status og en kontrollerende autoritet.
Hvis vi hadde skikkelige "same as" så kunne vi ha brukt identifikatoren for det navngitte objektet og lenket ut til for eksempel Sentralt Stedsnavnregister og hentet de aktuelle dataene der. Jeblad (talk) 15:50, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
Ok, det låter som SCB's namn på tätorter skulle fungera med en sådan property, men frågan är om det även gäller småorter och fritidshusområden. Tätorterna är controlled mot Kommunen, Lantmäteriet och Ortnamnsspecialister, men inte småorterna och fritidshusområdena. Deras namn (tex "Husby + del av Tuna") är påhittade av ngn statistiker på SCB.
Sedan har jag funderingar på en annan sak. Hur kommer det att gå med att lägga in tex Lulesamiska namn? Då de språken inte stöds av MediaWiki så kan man inte lägga in dem med "label" och man kan inte lägga in dem med "flerspråkig sträng". -- Lavallentalk(block) 07:35, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
I SSR kalles oppføringene name entity, men de har en implisitt føring at det finnes en autoritet som behandler dem. Kanskje det kan brukes et mer generelt navn, og så kan det være et bør krav at en autoritet må angis.
Språklista til Mediawiki brukes noen steder i Wikidata, men for flerspråklige tekster så tror jeg de må kunne angis for alle ~7000 språk. Jeblad (talk) 10:13, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

De-adminship Warning edit

Dear Jeblad/Archive 1. I am writing to inform you that you are in danger of losing your adminship on wikidata because of inactivity.

I want to give you last chance. If you want to keep your adminship, you need doing 10 actions within 30 days of today's date, and also to make at least five further admin actions in the following six months. Anyone who does not do so will automatically lose administrator rights.

You can read the de-admin policy at Wikidata:Administrators#Losing adminship.

Regards,--DangSunM (talk) 23:08, 16 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

I doubt that I can increase my activity on this project anytime soon, except for the sole purpose of retaining the adminship and that seems a but wrong to me. Jeblad (talk) 22:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)Reply
sorry I'm not sure about date, maybe 10/1/2013. --DangSunM (talk) 00:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)Reply
Hi Jeblad. I created this table to track active admins, crats, and oversighters, by Wikidata's definition of activity. As long as you are marked grey, your bit will be removed on the first day of the next month. If you are marked as red or green by the time it's next month, you will retain the bit. Cheers.Cyberpower678 (talk) 02:09, 22 September 2013 (UTC)Reply
I don't think it will be possible for me to do any serious work on Wikidata before a month or two, at earliest. I could rather ask for the bits when needed, but please retain the translation bits. Jeblad (talk) 18:39, 30 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

Notice of removal of adminship edit

Hello,

I regret to inform you that, in accordance with Wikidata:Administrators#Losing adminship and as a result of your inactivity, administrator rights have been removed from your account. Please see Wikidata:Requests for comment/Defining inactivity for details. Kind regards, Vogone talk 20:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, John. Just thought I'd let you know I've given you rollback, since obviously you can be trusted, and I thought you might find the extra button useful; if for any reason you wouldn't like it, please let me know. Thanks. — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 10:12, 10 October 2013 (UTC)Reply
Return to the user page of "Jeblad/Archive 1".