Wikidata:Property proposal/notation writer
notation writer edit
Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
| Description | person who wrote musical notation [for people who creates music, use P86] |
|---|---|
| Represents | music transcriber (Q98111756) |
| Data type | Item |
| Domain | |
| Example 1 | Tumi robe nirobe (Q92790472) → Jyotirindranath Tagore (Q6319456) |
| Example 2 | Gahana kusuma kunja majhe (Q92789967) → Sarala Devi Chaudhurani (Q7423026) |
| Example 3 | Jibanamaraner Seemana Chharaye (Q92790205) → Dinendranath Tagore (Q5278039) |
Motivation edit
WikiProject Music has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.
This property will help describe the person(s) who creates the musical notation of a song. Bodhisattwa (talk) 21:04, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Discussion edit
Support 
Comment I think it's better to change from song to musical composition or even musical work to make this apply to all music, not just music with lyrics. Apart from that, I think this can be useful. Moebeus (talk) 21:12, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Moebeus:- done -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 21:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Bodhisattwa: The proposal doesn't seem to be very clear. How is this distinct from composer (P86)? Is it for people who transcribe the musical notation for songs that have already been composed but have yet to be written down, is it for people who compose songs through the process of writing musical notation, or is it for something else? Jc86035 (talk) 00:46, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Jc86035: My understanding is that this refers to the first of these things, as (for example) fake books of music by Yanni (Q234716), for example, were not written down in Western notation by him (primarily because he does not use it himself) and thus whoever ended up transcribing it in Western notation within those books would be the object of this property. (Do correct me, @Bodhisattwa:, if I am mistaken.) Mahir256 (talk) 01:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Bodhisattwa, Mahir256: If that is indeed the intended meaning of the proposal, would this property be used on the item about the composition or the item about the transcription (I assume the latter, since the transcriber does not actually contribute to the composition itself?), and would it be accurate to call the property "transcriber"? (I would note that Real Book (Q1754852) uses author (P50), although what this actually means in context is unclear and it might be inaccurate.) Jc86035 (talk) 01:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Jc86035: A more succinct analogy might be as follows: calligrapher (P6819) is to author (P50) as this proposed property is to composer (P86). On this basis I'd say that this property would be present on the transcription (and the transcription would itself be linked to the song somehow). The label "transcriber" makes sense here in my view, though let's see what Bodhi thinks about it. Mahir256 (talk) 01:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Jc86035, Mahir256:, Yes, I was mostly talking about the first option where a person creates the musical notation that have already been composed. The songs written by Rabindranath Tagore (Q7241) were in my mind, which were mostly composed by him earlier and musical notations were written later by someone else hearing the music. I am totally fine to use the term transcriber, but we should be careful as it is a general term used outside of music also. It also makes sense to use it in transcription rather than the composition itself, as several transcribers might create different notations for the same composition, which actually happened with Rabindra Sangeet (Q3345491). -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 06:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Bodhisattwa: How would the collaboration of Eric Fenby (Q5386472) with Frederick Delius (Q312698) fit into this scheme, if at all? Delius clearly would have been working within the tradition of Western classical music notation, but was unable to transcribe the music because of his blindness and paralysis. (background). Scarabocchio (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Jc86035, Mahir256:, Yes, I was mostly talking about the first option where a person creates the musical notation that have already been composed. The songs written by Rabindranath Tagore (Q7241) were in my mind, which were mostly composed by him earlier and musical notations were written later by someone else hearing the music. I am totally fine to use the term transcriber, but we should be careful as it is a general term used outside of music also. It also makes sense to use it in transcription rather than the composition itself, as several transcribers might create different notations for the same composition, which actually happened with Rabindra Sangeet (Q3345491). -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 06:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Jc86035: A more succinct analogy might be as follows: calligrapher (P6819) is to author (P50) as this proposed property is to composer (P86). On this basis I'd say that this property would be present on the transcription (and the transcription would itself be linked to the song somehow). The label "transcriber" makes sense here in my view, though let's see what Bodhi thinks about it. Mahir256 (talk) 01:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Bodhisattwa, Mahir256: If that is indeed the intended meaning of the proposal, would this property be used on the item about the composition or the item about the transcription (I assume the latter, since the transcriber does not actually contribute to the composition itself?), and would it be accurate to call the property "transcriber"? (I would note that Real Book (Q1754852) uses author (P50), although what this actually means in context is unclear and it might be inaccurate.) Jc86035 (talk) 01:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Jc86035: My understanding is that this refers to the first of these things, as (for example) fake books of music by Yanni (Q234716), for example, were not written down in Western notation by him (primarily because he does not use it himself) and thus whoever ended up transcribing it in Western notation within those books would be the object of this property. (Do correct me, @Bodhisattwa:, if I am mistaken.) Mahir256 (talk) 01:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Bodhisattwa: can we have a property desciption that makes the difference to composer (P86) more clear? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 01:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
- @ChristianKl:, I have tried to change the description. Is it clear now? -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 06:31, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Support, an important property for music.--Arbnos (talk) 14:59, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Done as {[P|9260}}. @Bodhisattwa, Moebeus, Jc86035, Mahir256, Scarabocchio, ChristianKl: 
WikiProject Music has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 10:40, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
