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Wikidata:Property proposal/other specialty

other specialtyEdit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

   Not done
Descriptionnon-medical specialties in which to include, for example, psychotherapy or psychology
Representse.g. psychotherapy (Q183257)
Data typeItem
DomainPsychology and psychotherapy
Examplesocial phobia (Q281928)psychotherapy (Q183257)
or social phobia (Q281928)psychology (Q9418)
and not instead social phobia (Q281928)psychiatry (Q7867)
See alsohealth specialty (P1995)
Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2017/11#Infobox_medical_condition:_medical_specialty
Motivation

This request is started from this discussion. There is confusion between these specializations in mental disorders and the solutions adopted so far have not gone well. Please read the discussion courteously. Dapifer (talk) 14:16, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Discussion
  Comment Is that a universal statement, that psychotherapy for instance is not a part of medical practice? Or is that distinction limited to certain countries? It seems to me if "medical specialty" is too narrow we should find a way to broaden it - perhaps "health specialty" or "treatment profession" or something like that? Otherwise if a new property is created won't we continue the confusion with "medical specialty" pointing to one thing and the new property pointing to another? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:47, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Psychotherapy (and all its various branches) is practiced by psychiatrists with specialization in psychotherapy (physician) and most of the time by clinical psychologists with specialization in psychotherapy (not a physiciannot a medical specialty). Yes, the term "health specialty" seems to me to be excellent! This should be the category Q15220429 or this for mental disorders mental health professional (Q6817473) (in Italy: health profession (Q3922583))
Perhaps replacing medical specialty with health specialty could solve any controversy. --Dapifer (talk) 21:34, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

  Support I support "other specialty". Psychology and psychotherapy are not medical specialties (See en:Specialty (medicine)). -- Лорд Алекс (talk) 07:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

  Support I support "other specialty".--Geoide (talk) 19:10, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
  Comment I think that with "other specialty" they mean "health specialty", then rename it. This is definitely the best solution for all. --Dapifer (talk) 14:28, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
  •   Question how would references for such statements look like? Can we have a sample for each?
    --- Jura 09:44, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
What do you mean? I did not understand the question. --Dapifer (talk) 12:29, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
You added two sample statements above. Can you provide a reference for these? Please provide also a sample where the value is "psychiatry (Q7867)".
--- Jura 14:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm not an expert on Wikidata and I was trying to understand what you meant.
First of all, some information are common knowledge, and it has not been disputed, with this, I mean for professionals in the sector.
Regarding the specific case of this example (social phobia (Q281928)), looking for some sources in English, I quickly found the following.
In the psychological/psychotherapeutic field, in particular CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy (Q1147152)) and in the medical area (psychiatric/psycopharmacological treatments): 1; 2; 3; 4; 5; 6 ... and others.
My English is not great, but as reported by these addresses, social phobia (like other mental disorders) does not turn out to be a closed illness in medical specialization. CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy (Q1147152)) deals with it extensively, but the current infobox, restricts the field to medical specialization, and as already explained, this confusion could be risky for people with mental illness who do not need medical care. --Dapifer (talk) 17:57, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
You can add references in languages other than English. I don't quite get how the references support the statements.
From the proposal, the statement you'd need to source is "'social phobia' is included in non-medical specialty 'psychotherapy' by non-psychiatrists" and "'social phobia' is included in non-medical specialty 'psychology'" (maybe you can suggest a better reading of the statement).
Can you provide quotes from the sources you provided (or some other) that supports these statements.
--- Jura 10:20, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
I must remember that that of Social Phobia is just one of the possible examples, so we must treat it as such. In the addresses, we note that the main approach to this disorder is psychological/psychotherapeutic. In fact, the CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy (Q1147152)) is conducted by psychologists/psychotherapists (non-psychiatrists). Perhaps things could be clearer for example with paraphilic area disorders (paraphilia (Q178059)), where medical treatments are rare and do not lead to satisfactory solutions such as psychological ones; but also in this case, as specialization we find only "psychiatry".
I'm Italian, for me finding sources in English is not easy, so if someone with a better English than mine, can collaborate would be a great help. --Dapifer (talk) 12:39, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
  Comment The simplest solution is not to find the sources for social phobia, but to find the sources where Psychology and Psychotherapy deal with mental disorders, without being the only psychiatry's confinement. I still repeat, this confusion can be harmful. When I return, I will look for sources for this, in Italian and in English. If someone can work together, it would be great. --Dapifer (talk) 12:44, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Some sources in English that attest the specializations, Psychology and Psychotherapy in the treatment of mental disorders.
In English, for Psychotherapy specialty:
  1. Resolution psychotherapy, in particular: psychotherapy (individual, group and couple/family) is a practice designed varyingly to provide symptom relief and personality change, reduce future symptomatic episodes, enhance quality of life, promote adaptive functioning in work/school and relationships, increase the likelihood of making healthy life choices, and offer other benefits established by the collaboration between client/patient and psychologist; for most psychological disorders, the evidence from rigorous clinical research studies has shown that a variety of psychotherapies are effective with children, adults, and older adults and again...;
  2. Treatment Psychotherapy, in particultar: psychotherapy to be effective at improving symptoms in a wide array of mental illnesses, making it both a popular and versatile treatment. It can also be used for families, couples or groups;
  3. Talk therapy, in particultar: forms of psychotherapy using verbal communication for treating mental and emotional disorders, in contrast to one using drugs, physical exercise, or some other technique;
  4. Psychotherapy for mental illness in Europe, in particultar: The purpose of this report is to briefly summarize the evidence base supporting psychotherapeutic treatments for mental illness, and to explore their role in the treatment of mental illness in Europe. It is apparent that robust evidence supports the use of psychotherapy as a treatment for various common mental disorders;
  5. A guide to psychotherapy in Germany, in particultar: The most common mental illnesses and disorders that are treated with psychotherapy include anxiety disorders, depression and addiction. By the way, psychotherapy is not just used to treat mental conditions: It is also an option for people who are dealing with chronic physical illnesses.
In English, for Psychology (meaning here clinical psychology: clinical psychology (Q199906)) specialty (it must be remembered that the psychologist is often also a psychotherapist, so the above considerations can also apply to this specialization):
  1. What’s the Difference Between a Counselor and a Psychologist?, in particultar: "practice of psychology” means rendering or offering to render supervision, consultation, evaluation or therapy services to individuals, groups or organizations for the purpose of diagnosing or treating behavioral, emotional or mental disorders. “Practice of psychology” also includes delegating the administration and scoring of tests to technicians qualified by and under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist;
  2. Clinical Psychology, in particultar: Clinical psychology is the psychological specialty that provides continuing and comprehensive mental and behavioral health care for individuals and families; consultation to agencies and communities; training, education and supervision; and research-based practice;
  3. All About Clinical Psychology, in particultar: Psychologists trained to provide clinical services work in research, education, training and health sectors. Working with numerous populations, they focus on individual differences, normal and abnormal behavior, mental and emotional health, healthy behaviors and mental disorders and their prevention;
  4. What is clinical psychology, in particultar: Some of the job roles performed by those working in clinical psychology include: Assessment and diagnosis of psychological disorders; Treatment of psychological disorders.

--Dapifer (talk) 16:40, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

  Oppose per ChristianKl --Pasleim (talk) 12:10, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
@ChristianKl:, can I change the declaration "other specialty" with "health specialty", as we have concluded, so as not to create confusion in the voting? --Dapifer (talk) 16:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Currently, it seems like nobody on the talk page of health specialty (P1995) opposes expanding the scope of it, so it at the moment I don't think there's a need to change this proposal. To move forward on changing th scope of health specialty (P1995) there's an open question on the talk page of it about the definition of "health speciality". If that question is answered we can wait a week and see whether someone brings up further objections. If nobody does, we rename health specialty (P1995) and can close this proposal as not done because it's not needed anymore. ChristianKl () 17:01, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Perfect. I had not read anymore that discussione. By today or tomorrow I hope to be able to respond to the request, at the moment I have no more time. :/ Anyway, Thank you --Dapifer (talk) 17:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
  Comment With the proviso that I am new to Wikidata, I agree that "health specialty" would be better for the well-articulated reasons you all have given in this discussion. I also agree that clinical psychology is not a medical specialty. We (clinical psychologists) sometimes fall under a medical categorization, e.g., if I conduct a disability evaluation for PTSD with a veteran, the VA (Department of Veterans Affairs) refers to the expert opinions we are required to give as "medical opinions". I would personally prefer "psychological opinion", but it's a bureaucratic phrase, not a professional designation. We are not medical doctors, we are psychologists. :O) Markworthen (talk) 06:09, 5 December 2017 (UTC) (Mark D Worthen PsyD)
  Not done: health specialty (P1995) has been renamed to health speciality, so we can use that instead. − Pintoch (talk) 08:09, 16 March 2018 (UTC)