Wikidata:Property proposal/value is more specific than

value is more specific than edit

value is subclass of that of edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

Withdrawn

Description	this value is more specific than that of the parent (super)class or broader class; the parent (super)class or broader class has the same property statement, and the relation between this value and the value in the superclass is subclass of (P279) (To be used in a source field)
Data type	Item
Domain	any item with subclass of (P279) or part of (P361)
Allowed values	superclasses or broader classes of the subject item (subject item is a subclass of (P279) or part of (P361) of the value)
Example 1	⟨ mitral valve disease (Q18557136)    ⟩ anatomical location (P927) ⟨ mitral valve (Q369939)    ⟩ value is subclass of that of Search ⟨ heart valve disease (Q1130519) ⟩ (Note that mitral valve disease (Q18557136) is a subclass of heart valve disease (Q1130519), and the P927 value of mitral valve disease (Q18557136) is a subclass of the P927 value of heart valve disease (Q1130519) (mitral valve (Q369939) subclass of (P279) heart valve (Q215620)))
Example 2	⟨ finding by heart auscultation (Q30078856)    ⟩ evaluation of (P5134) ⟨ heart auscultation (Q30078800)    ⟩ value is subclass of that of Search ⟨ finding by auscultation (Q30079797) ⟩ (Note that finding by heart auscultation (Q30078856) is a subclass of finding by auscultation (Q30079797), and the P5134 value of finding by heart auscultation (Q30078856) is a subclass of the P5134 value of finding by auscultation (Q30079797) (heart auscultation (Q30078800) subclass of (P279) auscultation (Q779054)))
Example 3	⟨ set of imaginary numbers (Q47310259)    ⟩ has part(s) of the class (P2670) ⟨ imaginary number (Q9165172)    ⟩ value is subclass of that of Search ⟨ set of complex numbers (Q26851286) ⟩ (Note that set of imaginary numbers (Q47310259) is a part of set of complex numbers (Q26851286), and the P2670 value of set of imaginary numbers (Q47310259) is a subclass of the P2670 value of set of complex numbers (Q26851286) (imaginary number (Q9165172) subclass of (P279) complex number (Q11567)))
Example 4	⟨ hydrogen fluoride (Q2468)    ⟩ has part(s) (P527) ⟨ fluorine (Q650)    ⟩ value is subclass of that of Search ⟨ hydrogen halide (Q1572088) ⟩ (Note that hydrogen fluoride (Q2468) is a subclass of fluorine (Q650), and the P527 value of hydrogen fluoride (Q2468) is a subclass of the P527 value of hydrogen halide (Q1572088) (fluorine (Q650) subclass of (P279) halogens (Q19605)))
See also	Wikidata:Property proposal/value is inherited from

value is part of that of edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

Withdrawn

Description	this value is more specific than that of the parent (super)class or broader class; the parent (super)class or broader class has the same property statement, and the relation between this value and the value in the superclass is part of (P361) (To be used in a source field)
Data type	Item
Domain	any item with subclass of (P279) or part of (P361)
Allowed values	superclasses or broader classes of the subject item (subject item is a subclass of (P279) or part of (P361) of the value)
Example 1	⟨ lung cancer (Q47912)    ⟩ anatomical location (P927) ⟨ human lung (Q2640512)    ⟩ value is part of that of Search ⟨ respiratory system cancer (Q7315926) ⟩ (Note that lung cancer (Q47912) is a subclass of respiratory system cancer (Q7315926), and the P927 value of stomach cancer (Q189588) is a part of the P927 value of stomach disease (Q175827) (human lung (Q2640512) part of (P361) respiratory system (Q7891)))
Example 2	⟨ lung lobe development (Q21170946)    ⟩ anatomical location (P927) ⟨ pulmonary lobe (Q7259536)    ⟩ value is part of that of Search ⟨ lung development (Q14327711) ⟩ (Note that lung lobe development (Q21170946) is a part of lung development (Q14327711), and the P927 value of lung lobe development (Q21170946) is a part of the P927 value of lung development (Q14327711) (pulmonary lobe (Q7259536) part of (P361) lung (Q7886)))
Example 3	MISSING
See also	Wikidata:Property proposal/value is inherited from

Motivation edit

In many cases, there are similar tree structures among parallel concepts. These proposed qualifiers are useful to explicitly clarify these relationships, and to check if the relation is broken. See also Wikidata:Property proposal/value is inherited from.

Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine: These qualifiers are especially useful to describe medical concepts. --Okkn (talk) 15:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As per Pasleim's suggestion, we would deal with this property as a source property, instead of qualifiers. So I chaged the description. --Okkn (talk) 12:20, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Comment I don't see how this adds value to wikidata - it looks like a duplication of information which can be derived from the relationships on the values of these statements. Or maybe I'm missing something here? It seems at the least a confusing way to go about this... ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:11, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@ArthurPSmith: Thank you for commenting. For example, lung cancer (Q47912) is a subclass of respiratory system cancer (Q7315926) (pathological condition (cancer) is specified, but affected organ is NOT specified) and lung disease (Q3392853) (pathological condition is NOT specified, but affected organ (lung) is specified).

subclass of

	respiratory system cancer	edit

	0 references add reference

	lung disease	edit

	0 references add reference

add value

If we have qualifiers "value is subclass/part of that of" and "value is inherited from", the anatomical location (P927) claim in lung cancer (Q47912) can be represented as follow:

anatomical location

human lung

edit

value is inherited from

lung disease

value is part of that of

respiratory system cancer

0 references

add reference

add value

By doing so, we can explicitly declare the detailed relationships between the subject class and its superclasses, i.e. everyone can understand why respiratory system cancer (Q7315926) is a broader concepts than lung cancer (Q47912).

Of course if the data are complete, this information can be automatically generated. But practically, data are sometimes missed or changed mistakenly. We can detect not only ①mistakenly removing or changing of P279 claims in the subject class, but also ② mistakenly removing or changing of some inherited values in the superclass, by using these qualifiers. When editing in the superclass, we sometimes fail to notice the existence of subclasses, and in order to resolve interwiki conflicts or to fix the wrong external IDs, we would change some values. These qualifiers prevent us from causing mismatching in P279 claims in the subclasses.

However, we must beware that any bot should not automatically change these qualifiers according to the changes in the superclass. --Okkn (talk) 06:02, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This still seems overly hard to follow - is it really necessary? Pinging the taxonomy project here.. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- I believe these qualifiers are necessary to actualize high robustness of data and their structures. That is particularly vital for healthcare information, I think. --Okkn (talk) 18:44, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Taxonomy has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.

Comment My first impression also is that it looks complicated, and does not seem to be adding new information. It may help in adding robustness, but I can't really say if this would be worth it. Would this be used as a qualifier? - Brya (talk) 04:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Brya: Yes, they would be used as qualifiers. Not only robustness but also the notation of value inheritance (where the value is inherited from, or how the value is updated from superclass), would be added. --Okkn (talk) 06:57, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Couldn't you get much the same effect by just adding "subclass of: " (or whatever is relevant) as a qualifier? - Brya (talk) 11:03, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Brya: ① If we add P279 as in
    ⟨ mitral valve disease (Q18557136)    ⟩ anatomical location (P927) ⟨ mitral valve (Q369939)    ⟩
    subclass of (P279) ⟨ heart valve (Q215620)    ⟩
    , we cannot understand that the value (Q369939) is a specialized version of P927 value of heart valve disease (Q1130519) (superclass of Q18557136), so how mitral valve disease (Q18557136) and heart valve disease (Q1130519) are related or different remains unknown.
  - ② And if we add P279 as in
    ⟨ mitral valve disease (Q18557136)    ⟩ anatomical location (P927) ⟨ mitral valve (Q369939)    ⟩
    subclass of (P279) ⟨ heart valve disease (Q1130519)    ⟩
    , we cannot distinguish, what is called, "value is inherited from", "value is subclass of that of", and "value is part of that of" relations. (see Figure)
  - Therefore, to describe the situation clearly, these new qualifiers are necessary. --Okkn (talk) 13:00, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - I don't see how adding to "anatomical location : mitral valve" a qualifier of "subclass of : heart valve" is less specific or informative than adding to "anatomical location : mitral valve" a qualifier of "value is more specific than : heart valve"? - Brya (talk) 17:19, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Brya: My plan is adding a qualifier of "value is more specific than that of : heart valve disease", not "heart valve". A qualifier of "subclass of : heart valve" in P927 claim does not mean that "heart valve" is used in the superclass ("heart valve disease"). The proposed qualifier suggests not only that "mitral valve" has a superclass, but also that the superclass of "mitral valve" is inherited from "heart valve disease". The latter information is the most important point of this qualifier. When an item has mulitple superclasses, this notation help us to recognize the inheritance relationships. --Okkn (talk) 19:01, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        Ah, in that case I don't understand it at all. - Brya (talk) 05:04, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        @Brya: Ok. I'd also like to get your thoughts on Wikidata:Property proposal/value is inherited from, if possible. --Okkn (talk) 06:04, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]