Property talk:P1410

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number of seats in assembly
number of seats a political party, faction, or group has in a given assembly

Description	Number of seats held by a political group or party in a legislative body provided by qualifiers. Use member count (P2124) for number of members of e.g. a political party.
Represents	elected person (Q16060143), number of entities (Q614112)
Data type	Quantity
Template parameter	"loksabha_seats"/"Rajyasabha_seats"/"assembly_seats" in en:template:infobox indian political party
Domain	Unsorted (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Allowed values	0 ≤ 𝓧 ≤ 600
Allowed units	not applicable
Usage notes	Use with qualifier P194
Example	According to this template: Bharatiya Janata Party (Q10230) => 117 with qaulifier Legislature legislative body (P194): Lok Sabha (Q230003) According to statements in the property: Bharatiya Janata Party (Q10230) → 117 Fidesz (Q387006) → 119 When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Source	example w:en:Lok sabha see infobox for list if political party and seats hold by them (note: this information should be moved to a property statement; use property source website for the property (P1896))
Tracking: usage	Category:Pages using Wikidata property P1410 (Q113519456)
See also	number of seats (P1342)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Minimum and maximum Items with highest numeric value Items with lowest numeric value User:Laboramus/Units/P1410 (Units used) Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 28,126 Main statement 14,179 50.4% of uses Qualifier 13,947 49.6% of uses

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Units: “novalue”: value unit must be one of listed. (Help)

List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#Units, hourly updated report

Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#Scope, SPARQL

Range from “0” to “600”: values should be in the range from “0” to “600”. (Help)

List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#Range, hourly updated report

Required qualifier “legislative body (P194)”: this property should be used with the listed qualifier. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#mandatory qualifier, SPARQL

Qualifiers “legislative body (P194), start time (P580), end time (P582), parliamentary term (P2937), proportion (P1107), reason for deprecated rank (P2241), reason for preferred rank (P7452), earliest date (P1319), latest start date (P8555), earliest end date (P8554), latest date (P1326), participant (P710)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL

Integer: values should be integers (ie. they shouldn't have a fractional part) (Help)

List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#integer, hourly updated report, SPARQL

No bounds: values can't have any bounds (e.g. 1 not 1±0) (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1410#No Bounds, SPARQL

This property is being used by: ca:Plantilla:Infotaula eleccions de:Vorlage:MdEP-Zahl hu:Sablon:MdEP-Zahl, hu:Sablon:EP-helyek eu:Txantiloi:Erakunde infotaula ha:Template:Infobox organization, ha:Samfuri:Infobox organization incubator:Template:Wp/shi/Infobox organization kab:Talɣa:Infobox organization zh:Template:Infobox constituency shi:Talɣa:Infobox organization bar:Vorlog:MdEP-Zahl zh-yue:Template:Infobox constituency yue:Template:Infobox constituency Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Using this property for the state representation count

I think this property perfectly fits another usecase (see proposal) - number of seats that a US state has in the House of Representatives (its proportional to the population). By analogy, it can also be used for all other similar region representation counts, like European Union parliament representation. --Yurik (talk) 12:54, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

@Yurik: Yes we should better define the scope of this property. You changed the English name to thee very generic "organization", while the property still requires the mandatory qualifier "legislative body", which is much more restricted. We could change the mandatory qualifier to something broader. SPQRobin (talk) 13:04, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Property as a qualifier

Hello. I request the update of number of seats in assembly (P1410) to allow to be used as a qualifier. Please read Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization#parliament seats. Xaris333 (talk) 09:21, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Dom Tubezlob Oravrattas Sarilho1 Yair rand Siwhitehouse Louisecrow Xaris333 Amadalvarez Popperipopp Dajasj Johanricher c960657 Dipsacus fullonum Zwolfz Antagonist Nikola Tulechki WikiBunny2K1 Ranjithsiji Gnoeee Kuldeepburjbhalaike PAC2 DaxServer

Notified participants of WikiProject elections Xaris333 (talk) 09:24, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata:Project chat#Parliament or municipal council seats Xaris333 (talk) 16:11, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm fine with the change, but I think the title is now very complicated. Is there a simpler label we could use? Andrew Gray (talk) 22:20, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Would a simple "number of representatives" be enough, or is there something that wouldn't adequately convey? --Oravrattas (talk) 08:33, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Dom Tubezlob Oravrattas Sarilho1 Yair rand Siwhitehouse Louisecrow Xaris333 Amadalvarez Popperipopp Dajasj Johanricher c960657 Dipsacus fullonum Zwolfz Antagonist Nikola Tulechki WikiBunny2K1 Ranjithsiji Gnoeee Kuldeepburjbhalaike PAC2 DaxServer

Notified participants of WikiProject elections, Now, that P1410 can be used as a qualifier, we should change the quantity (P1114) included as a qualifier in successful candidate (P991) of election items. Until now, the only way to inform number of seats won for each party were the generic property P1114, however now we must use P1410 because is the most specific. Any suggestion ? Do you agree?. Amadalvarez (talk) 20:43, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@Amadalvarez: This migration is currently running as https://tools.wmflabs.org/editgroups/b/wikibase-cli/d1e31dd833b33/ and https://tools.wmflabs.org/editgroups/b/wikibase-cli/dd98c6ba7220b --Oravrattas (talk) 07:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

@Oravrattas: Great ! Amadalvarez (talk) 09:32, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Should we rename this to "Number of seats in assembly"?

The question is in the title: should we replace this template's references to legislature (Q11204) with its superset assembly (Q1752346)? It would thus work correctly for collegial executives such as Switzerland (federal, cantonal, and municipal), where the amount of seats plays a role, and have its intended role for assemblies in general instead of only those exercising legislative power. Julio974fr (talk) 13:26, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Guidance on types of assemblies

Hi,

I am seeking to add information on the representation of European political parties. Currently, "Number of seats in assembly" is used for their number of members in the European Parliament. However, I was interested in using this property for European parties' number of members in the European Commission and European Council as well.

Of course, these bodies are not legislative bodies (the Council of the European Union is, but that's a different entity). Without getting into deep discussions about the evolution of the role of the European Council, both the European Commission and Council are executive bodies.

What would be the best course of action for this?

Thanks! Julius Schwarz (talk) 13:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

In the meantime, I followed the example of Swiss political parties, such as the Swiss People's Party, where membership of executive bodies is also listed under "Number of seats in assembly". Julius Schwarz (talk) 11:22, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi all, I am going back to this issue. I amended the properties of the European Commission and European Council to mark them as instances of the executive branch and as applying to the European Union as a jurisdiction. That solves part of the issue I raised, but not the fact that number of seats in assembly (P1410) requires legislative body (P194) as a qualifier.

What would be the best course of action?

• amending the definition of this property to account for collegial executives (and not solely legislative bodies), and therefore add executive body (P208) as a possible properly (on equal footing with legislative body (P194); or
• simply mark executive body (P208) as an exception to the current rule.

I would vouch for the former, as that would seem like a neater solution, since there are numerous non-legislative bodies where political parties or other similar entities may have seats (the case of the EU being a clear example).

Happy to get more informed people's views on this! Julius Schwarz (talk) 07:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Linking seat number to total seat number

Hi @Julio974fr @Xaris333 @Amadalvarez @ElTres and others,

Following my question above, I have another issue I am trying to sort out. Same situation: think of a country where, following an election, the number of seats of each party in the assembly changes (as expected), but the size of the assembly also changes. If we try and use these figures the composition box of an infobox, how can we properly correlate a party's number of seats with the size of the assembly?

The idea is to have some automated system, whereby the dates for the party's number of seats (if entered properly) would be matched with the dates for the size of the assembly (if entered properly on the page of the assembly in question). This way we don't always need to make manual changes and when the party figure is updates, the total number of seats is also updated. Is this feasible?

If not, can we think of an alternative system? Perhaps by manually entering the total number of seats as a qualifier of the party's number of seats? Of course, this would add a bit of data, but this way, we could call both the party's number of seats and the matching total number of seats of the assembly to fill in a composition box in an infobox. Just trying to find something that works.

Thanks! Julius Schwarz (talk) 07:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Julius Schwarz. I'm not sure I understand your question. For me, in the infobox for example, the increase/decrease and distribution rate by political group, is calculated data, not a value in a property statement. When a party gets 10 seats and in previous elections it got 8, it only grows by 2 more seats, no matter how many seats there are in the assembly. Also, the percentage distribution of the assembly by party is simply the ratio # seats / # total seats. Seats can be compared to seats and percentage to percentage, because if the number of seats in the assembly has changed, it happens for all parties under the same rules.

With regard to having a correlation between the seats of the parties at each moment, it must be remembered that the P1410 of a party, is the item of the result of the elections, which already has its date.

Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 19:29, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Amadalvarez. Sorry if I weren't clear, but I was not talking about increases or decreases, nor about percentages. My question is really just about the correlation between a party's number of seats and an assembly's size.

Maybe taking a more concrete example helps. I work on European political parties. If you look at the infoboxes of European parties (such as the European People's Party), you will see a number of composition bars showing the party's number of representatives in various assemblies. In the case of the European Parliament, the size of the assembly (the EP) changes often, so I am trying to find way to ensure that the size of the assembly matches the moment that the result is from.

Currently, the most recent figures are prior to the 2024 election, when the size of the EP was 705. Now it has grown to 720. But we can't show the old figure and the newly increased size. So I guess I am trying to extract a reference date from the party's result, and use that date to find the EP's size at that date. Does that make more sense? Julius Schwarz (talk) 21:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Julius Schwarz. Now, I understand, but not sure to have the solution you find.

To better point the solution:

• In EP elections, the result for each European party is one of the successful candidate (P991) value in the election item.Ex:2024.
  • In this item, the office contested (P541) >> quantity (P1114) contains the total seats for this election.
• As you know, the seats for each European party are the addition of national results of parties that belong to each European party, and you can get this info from the results of national EU elections items. Ex. ESP in 2024
• to draw a single bar (as now the European People's Party shows), you have all the info in the 2024 elections item, for instance.
• to draw a two (or more) bars for be able to compare, you need to get info from 2024 elections item and the follows (P155) one, it is, 2019 item, taking its P541/P1114 (total seats) and its P991 (party seats), from each election to compare.

Does it match ?. Amadalvarez (talk) 06:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, this is quite useful. Two caveats, however. Firstly, the number of MEPs of European parties is unfortunately not the sum of the MEPs elected from their national parties, since some MEPs join European parties as individual members -- not many, but enough to make the result not add up. I actually see from the page you linked that most of the figures for "successful candidate" of European parties for the 2024 European election are wrong. Secondly (and this is a person thing), I do not know how to sum figures from Wikidata... Julius Schwarz (talk) 07:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your precission.

• First of all, I told you that the number of parliament seats were in P1114; really it could be in P1114 or P1342, because in some election items uses P1342, instead.
• Yes, I knew that EU parties are composed also by individual members. The keystone we don't have yet in WD is the list of components (parties or individuals) of an european party just after elections. Probably, we'll need a new level of item like "Components for ABC party in EU Nth legislature".
• How to sum figures ?. WD is just a database and has an access system via API and a query language (SPARQL) to get data but not a own powerfull software or language to manage, edit or display information.

In my case, I use WD information to build infoboxes and get the information through Module:wikidades and specific templates for person, organization, building, sport competition, election, etc. It is a set of utilities done in CAwiki and exported to several WPs.

If you're focused to elections, I invite you to visit Template:Infobox election and navigate for the examples (now in updating process, excuse me if something is wrong). Its documentation contains a summary of values and functions of each property for each class of election. In addition, you may see the ontology among differents levels of election types.

Salut ! Amadalvarez (talk) 11:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I am actually more focused on European parties than on elections. I am just dealing with elections because they just took place in the EU :)

I note your point about the list of parties/individuals members of European parties. However, why do you focus on "just after elections"? Wouldn't this be more applicable to parliamentary groups, which kind of start fresh following elections? The membership of European parties is not directly affected by elections. What is affected, of course, is there number of MEPs, but that's a different data point.

As for summing figures, this remains something that I am trying to figure out, but it's slightly separate from this questions. What I was trying to do here is to automatically determine the size of the assembly by correlating it to the date of value used for number of seats in assembly (P1410). For instance, if we use a value of 100 that is valid on 1 Jan 2023, then the total size of the assembly should be the one that was valid on that same day. That's the kind of link I was seeking. Julius Schwarz (talk) 08:03, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you're right, I exchange EU parties and Parliament Group. So, I see now that we have no information on WD about composition of groups related with parties.

I'll thinking about summing as a personal challenge.

Keep in touch,

Amador Amadalvarez (talk) 06:33, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

thanks @Amadalvarez, I appreciate that! Julius Schwarz (talk) 09:56, 26 July 2024 (UTC)