Wikidata:Property proposal/Academic rank

Academic rank edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

Not done

Description	rank hold by an academic
Represents	academic rank (Q486983)
Data type	Item
Domain	human (Q5)
Example 1	Claude Gauvard (Q1096766) → professeur des universités (Q28004591) [start time (P580): 1990; end time (P582): 2009]
Example 2	John Preskill (Q722128) → associate professor (Q9344260)
Example 3	Wilhelm Alzinger (Q85604) → docent (Q462390)
See also	professorship (P803)
Proposed by	Nomen ad hoc

professorship (P803) is only for specific chairs; this property would be applicable to all generic academic ranks. I also think that a dedicated property would be more convenient and accurate than only using position held (P39) (and even more than occupation (P106), as I see sometimes). Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:40, 5 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

(We could also widen it to research positions, such as Director of Research at CNRS (Q3029430).)

Notified participants of WikiProject Universities. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:42, 5 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Research projects. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:43, 5 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

WikiProject Wikidata for research has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Support David (talk) 06:40, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Can you plz elaborate on this? What makes it more accurate and more convenient? I am not sure at this moment what it adds, and then it only adds confusion. @Hannolans, Linnborghuis, Sjoerddebruin: how does it relate to your efforts around Dutch professor positions? --Egon Willighagen (talk) 09:00, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The current situation is already confused: academic ranks are either declared as an occupation, or a position. Such property would fix this hesitation. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 08:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose This property might be convienent but it is likely to make the distinction between the academic (Q3400985) and academic rank (Q486983) classes much less clear. In my opinion, it would be sensible to avoid doing that. Simon Cobb (User:Sic19 ; talk page) 17:38, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Simon, sorry, didn't see your comment prior. Would you have some examples of academic (Q3400985) subclasses? I think that the distinction wouldn't be very difficult: academic (Q3400985) subclasses would logically be for field of speciality, whereas academic rank (Q486983) rather refers to generical titles, shared by academics from all kinds of discipline. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 08:30, 21 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Comment Hi, I have a problem with the description as a title which I have found on several of these things. The examples you give are not titles (a title is : Dr, Prof., etc). There are positions, functions and jobs. If you enter the issue of ranks, then you have in France for instance "professeur de 1ere classe" or "maitre de conférences de classe exceptionnelle", etc. Best, --Cgolds (talk) 08:40, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why not position held (P39)? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:00, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why not; but currently the use is very disordered; very often these positions are declared as occupations (see e.g. for French professors); and furthermore, I was sometimes reverted while declaring it as a classical position. So a dedicated property would certainly stabilize the use. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 14:06, 14 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Just define the rank as a subclass of the occupation. This is indeed a specific case. author  TomT0m / talk page 16:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Nomen ad hoc: I’d do something like that :
⟨ academic in french university ⟩ subclass of (P279) ⟨ academic ⟩
(en gros pour les enseignants chercheurs)

⟨ university professor ⟩ subclass of (P279) ⟨ academic in france ⟩

⟨ university professor ⟩ subclass of (P279) ⟨ rang immédiatement inférieur ⟩

Et peut-être même
⟨ academic in french university ⟩ disjoint union of (P2738) ⟨ list of values as qualifiers (Q23766486)      ⟩
list item (P11260) ⟨ maître de conférence ⟩
list item (P11260) ⟨ professeur d’université ⟩
list item (P11260) ⟨ … ⟩
. Même si il y a d’autre poste à prendre en compte, genre les chercheurs CNRS qui font pas d’enseignement mais on est plus dans l’université pour le coup. Et faudrait aussi intégrer les thésards qui font de la recherche et de l’enseignement, souvent. author  TomT0m / talk page 16:29, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose introducing new standards because existing standards aren't used consistently is a bad idea. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:45, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Which are exactly the suitable standards for academic ranks? Nomen ad hoc (talk) 09:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
It seems to me like exact standards aren't defined. If you want an exact definition the place to go is a relevant Wikiproject where you can reach consensus on a specific standard. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 07:15, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Marking this as Not done, it looks like the distinction with position held (P39), professorship (P803) and occupation (P106) is too subtle for this separation to become useful − Pintoch (talk) 09:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]