Wikidata:Property proposal/electron configuration

electron configuration edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

Done: electron configuration (P8000) (Talk and documentation)

Description	property of an atom (atom (Q9121)) in chemical element (chemical element (Q11344))
Represents	electron configuration (Q53859)
Data type	String
Template parameter	"electron configuration" in Template:Infobox element
Domain	chemical element (Q11344)
Example 1	hydrogen (Q556) → 1s¹
Example 2	helium (Q560) → 1s²
Example 3	lithium (Q568) → [He] 2s¹
Example 4	2s²
Example 5	2s²2p¹
Example 6	2s²2p²
Example 7	2s²2p³
Example 8	2s²2p⁴
Example 9	2s²2p⁵
Example 10	2s²2p⁶
Example 11	[Nе]3s¹
Example 12	3s²
Example 13	3s²3p¹
Example 14	3s²3p²
Example 15	3s²3p³
Example 16	3s²3p⁴
Example 17	3s²3p⁵
Example 18	3s²3p⁶
Source	configurations of the elements (data page) Wikipedia: Electron configurations of the elements
Planned use	include in templates related to chemical elements
Number of IDs in source	126
Expected completeness	complete coverage can be provided
Robot and gadget jobs	can be created
See also	atomic number (P1086), electron configuration (Q53859)

Motivation edit

can be used along with atomic number (P1086) instead of electron configuration (Q53859). Was nominated before Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/38#electron configuration

Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

Васин Юрий (talk) 18:23, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Comment The proposal mentions "infobox parameter = "electron configuration" in Template:Infobox element". I note that in enwiki, this is not an input parameter but en:Infobox element reads this data directly from data set en:Template:Infobox element/symbol-to-electron-configuration (which allows reuse of this data in other tables & boxes in that wiki). -DePiep (talk) 19:32, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not understand what you mean. WikiData property can be used in few other templates, e.g. interwiki versions of the Template:Infobox element Васин Юрий (talk) 05:05, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I got very mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I think such info is useful, but I don't like to have this on elements. I think the more appropriate place is atoms, like ions. The configuration, after all, is depending on whether the molecule is ionized, a radical, etc. --Egon Willighagen (talk) 07:32, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- No matter where to use this property in atoms or chemical elements. Any way this information frequently shown in periodic tables Васин Юрий (talk) 10:49, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- It could be specified that it is the ground state electron config. of an atom or the electron configuration of a common ionization of said atom. --User123o987name (talk) 06:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment superscript is not possible in WD, so we would have to use Unicode symbols for this (like in chemical formulae). Maybe we should try to find a way to model this using qualifier(s) so as to the data could be reused in more than one way (like electron configuration = orbital s, qualifier: number of electrons = 2; orbital d, qualifier: no of e = 6 etc. or something). Wostr (talk) 18:31, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I added some examples to explain that UTF will be enough. We need only numbers ¹ ² ³... symbols. Or number can be placed in parentheses, e.g. 2s[2]. I can enter data for all elements by bot or manually. Васин Юрий (talk) 14:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - I know that Unicode symbols would be sufficient, but I wonder if this is the best way to model this. Wostr (talk) 13:03, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Maybe brackets could be good alternative? Васин Юрий (talk)
      - That's not the question how to write it in a single string, but rather how to make the data re-usable in different ways, without the need to parse a single string of data. Wostr (talk) 14:30, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please make it clear in every example which item should get which statements. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:57, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Wostr - It could be written like 1s2,2s2,2p6,3s2,3p6,4s2,3d5 (for nonionized Mn) or 1s2, 2s2, 2p6, 3s2, 3p6, 4s2, 3d10, 4p6, 5s2, 4d10, 5p6, 6s1, 4f14, 5d9 (for normal Pt). This conceptually makes sense to me, but either of those examples could be written in order of principal energy levels, like 1s2,2s2,2p6,3s2,3p6,3d10,4s1 (not 1s2,2s2,2p6,3s2,3p6,4s1,3d10) for Cu. Or spaces could be used: 1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d1 for Sc, 1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 3d10 4s2 4p6 4d10 5s1 for Ag --User123o987name (talk) 06:15, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support David (talk) 15:18, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would suggest to use HTML <sup> and </sup> tags used for superscripting, rather than hard-coded unicode. They're probably easier to parse for downstream apps wanting to use the data in different ways. Jheald (talk) 21:40, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I Oppose if the property uses HTML, Support if it uses unicode. Unicode is easier to parse as it needs no added actions. It automatically works provided the software supports unicode. HTML on the other hand needs the data users to make assumptions about how we format our data.

Anything that has string as a data-type within Wikidata should be understood by data-reusers to be able to used without additional parsing.

If the data-type would be Mathematical expression I would be okay with mathml style formatting as that's to be expected with that datatype. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 08:12, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that using HTML would be awkward, but if we don't use HTML, it makes the migration path harder for w:Template:Infobox element to use this data, that is, it make it harder for for this data to replace w:Template:Infobox element/symbol-to-electron-configuration. —Scs (talk) 10:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support --予弦 14:50, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but I would prefer using elements and qualifiers, like Wostr's comment. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 21:33, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps quantum numbers (Q232431) could be used as a qualifier or separate property. Maybe that doesn't make sense, but it does make sense for there to be a quantum number property, see: http://archive.ph/2019.11.18-062209/http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m01uwrt0qI0/VaXM0LTO0lI/AAAAAAAACh8/GruNAC1_aAw/s1600/Chemistry_QuantumNo.Table.png and https://www.simply.science/images/content/chemistry/structure_of_matter/quantum_theory/conceptmap/QMM_Quantum_num3.jpg. --User123o987name (talk) 06:34, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support, especially if both full electron configuration and condensed electron configuration are able to be shown. Also Google and Bing's Knowledge Graph / knowledge base thingie already presents this information, just search "electron configuration of [element]" or "[element] electron config". --User123o987name (talk) 05:57, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Васин Юрий, Egon Willighagen, Wostr, ChristianKl, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Jheald:; @User123o987name:: since nobody opposed to the creation of the property, I've used string datatype with Unicode superscripts) because the way is actually, a standard way to represent the data, and no info is lost. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 05:23, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Tinker Bell: Need to decide whether to spell each configuration out explicitly, or by reference to the previous row, as in Example 11 (Sodium) above. Former will become unwieldy, but latter is not currently allowed by the constraint. —Scs (talk) 10:30, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It there's a desire to have this data replace w:Template:Infobox element/symbol-to-electron-configuration (so that it can be used in w:Template:Infobox element), the choice is clear: configurations other than Hydrogen and Helium should reference the previous noble gas. But then there's another question: for convention and for use in the Infobox the notation for e.g. Lithium would be [He] 1s², but if we wanted the Wikidata data to be maximally useful in a standalone way (that is, for low-level machine consumption), we might prefer [Q560] 1s². Hmm. —Scs (talk) 11:38, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not a simple question. I'm not good in wikidata syntax. Maybe a special parametr can be provided for this purpose - full of short. Or both notation can be placete together? Point me please to documentation or sandbox. Васин Юрий (talk) 07:25, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Scs, Васин Юрий: I modified the regex to support [He]. I think there's no need to store the Wikidata identifier directly: we should mantain the data simple, because many user agents will fetch the property value only, without further processing. If an user agent want to expand these references, they can extract the symbol using a regex, and then, make a SPARQL query using element symbol (P246) to obtain electron configuration (P8000). --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 17:53, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's not anyone's desire here, especially since en.wiki does not want to use WD data. The choice is not clear. It's very easy to write a module (Lua) that would enable to add links to articles (He → Helium etc.) and to replace Unicode symbols with HTML tags. Item describing specific element in the electron configuration could be added as a qualifier; both full and simplified electron configuration could be added with proper qualifiers. There are many options. Wostr (talk) 18:55, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]