Wikidata:Property proposal/food energy

food energy edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

Done: food energy (P7971) (Talk and documentation)

Description	amount of chemical energy that animals (including humans) derive from this item
Represents	food energy (Q186205)
Data type	Quantity
Template parameter	"kcal" in en:template:infobox nutritional value
Domain	food (Q2095)
Allowed units	kilocalorie (Q26708069) or kilojoule per mole (Q752197)
Example 1	Big Mac (Q506796) → 540 kcal
Example 2	Whopper (Q1135327) → 660 kcal
Example 3	Baconator (Q4839954) → 970 kcal
Example 4	Cheez Whiz (Q536691) → 80 kcal
Source	https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/
Planned use	Add nutritional data to food products

Motivation edit

I noticed there is a lot of nutritional data in Wikipedia that would be nice to have in Wikidata. This seems to be the most important property. U+1F360 (talk) 18:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Comment for the first sample, WP mentions "Nutritional value per 1 sandwich 7.6 oz (215 g)". How would this be captured? Sample #4 is currently an item for a trade mark (Q536691). I don't think they are edible. --- Jura 19:20, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Jura1: I think quantity (P1114), mass (P2067), or volume as quantity (P2234) qualifier could be used to indicate the quantity. Otherwise it might be safe to create a new item for each "package" which would have it's own mass (P2067) or volume as quantity (P2234). As far as example4, this is a trademark, but in en:Cheez_Whiz it is also a food product. I assume a new wikidata item should be created for the product rather than the trademark, but the article covers both topics. U+1F360 (talk) 19:32, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Food

Support --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 23:55, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support David (talk) 06:43, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose use of kilocalorie (Q26708069), which is not an SI unit. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:36, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Visite fortuitement prolongée: If SI units are a requirement, then I'm fine enforcing kilojoule per mole (Q752197). U+1F360 (talk) 20:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Visite fortuitement prolongée: Would that resolve your objection? U+1F360 (talk) 21:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - I would prefer kilojoule (Q4989854) and megajoule (Q14786969). Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:20, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- In general Wikidata should be able to automatically convert kilocalories to joule the problem with calories seems to be that there are multiple definitions of calorie. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - @ChristianKl: how would you recommend resolving that problem? U+1F360 (talk) 13:41, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - It sounds like we need an item for each of the different kilocalorie definitions out there and then use a one-of-constraint to restrict the property to them and joule (I don't see why we should use joule/mole). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 07:48, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - @ChristianKl: from the source you cited: "In discussing food, the "calorie," capitalized or not, is always the kilocalorie." It also seems like en:Calorie makes a distinction between a calorie used as general energy and one used in food. In other words, which of the definitions should be used in the context of a colocial "calorie"? Or is it a completely different concept all together? U+1F360 (talk) 13:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        Then we might have "international table kilocalorie" as an on-of-target along with "joule" and "kilojoule". ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:19, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm not sure what that means. :) but that sounds fine to me. U+1F360 (talk) 15:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Visite fortuitement prolongée: Another question: should the unit in Wikidata be whatever is sourced? For instance the manufacturer of the Big Mac (Q506796) says that the sandwhich is 540 kcal. Should the user/bot convert that before adding it to Wikidata? Or should the user/client reading that data from Wikidata do the conversion (if they so wish)? U+1F360 (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Visite fortuitement prolongée: It looks like height (P2048) accepts none SI units like foot (Q3710) and inch (Q218593) so I'm not sure this is a valid objection unless we want to create a policy against non-SI units. U+1F360 (talk) 15:00, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- (General remark, not specific to this proposal:) We should not require SI-only units. Instead, values should be entered in the unit given in the source. The relation to SI or other standard units is given by conversion to SI unit (P2370) or conversion to standard unit (P2442). This separates the different concerns of 1) transferring a value from the source to Wikidata and 2) presenting the value in the chosen unit system. (Just imagine the other strategy proposed here: In year 1 someone enters a value in the currently-preferred unit system. The system changes in year 100 and a bot converts all values, introducing some small error. As times goes on, conversion errors accumulate as people continue converting the values as new unit systems emerge. Therefore: Store the value in the original unit, and the conversion from that unit in the unit-item.) Toni 001 (talk) 19:19, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I don't think the units should be a gatekeeper here, but would prefer if there was some sort of requirement for a serving size qualifier. Gtsulab (talk) 20:07, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Good proposal, and I agree with Gtsulab that it would be logical to have some way to make the serving size clear. Also, Whoppers (and any other food) do vary in the amount of calories they provide. Maybe a "reported energy of serving size" or something would be strictly more precise. TiagoLubiana (talk) 11:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@U+1F360, Jura1, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Visite fortuitement prolongée, ChristianKl, Toni 001: Done --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 06:26, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]