Wikidata:Property proposal/tussenvoegsel

tussenvoegsel

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

Done: infix (P7377) (Talk and documentation)

Description	Dutch surnames have tussenvoegsels. These are so common that surnames are sorted not by the first letter of the surname but by the first letter of the word after the tussenvoegsel
Data type	Item
Domain	family name (Q101352)
Example 1	De Kok (Q2796392) "de" is the tussenvoegsel
Example 2	van der Velden (Q7913878) "van der" is the tussenvoegsel
Example 3	van Leeuwen (Q2617253) "van" is the tussenvoegsel
Source	tussenvoegsels
See also	't (Q4540585) is a tussenvoegsel

Motivation

Dutch surnames have tussenvoegsels. These are so common that surnames are sorted not by the first letter of the surname but by the first letter of the word after the tussenvoegsel. It is not uncommon for forms to ask to define it separately from the surname 1Veertje (talk) 11:41, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Names

Comment Maybe most common in Dutch, but don't other languages have something similar? Should this be limited to the Dutch case? ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:27, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support David (talk) 07:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The description needs plaintest and doesn't allow wikitext. Please change the description to one that explains what the property is about to someone who doesn't know what Tussenvoegsel means. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 15:34, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @1Veertje: I have taken the Wikilink out of the description. --Kristbaum (talk) 16:03, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Question: are you proposing to use these on human or surname items? If we do the latter, do know we can't have "de Jong" and "De Jong" with the same description. I think it would make more sense to use it on the humans. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 13:42, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @1Veertje: There is definitely more clarity needed here. Could names with the Irish "O'" prefix use this property? Would the "von" in Wernher von Braun (Q57384) and many similar German names be included? It seems extremely similar. If you have some references on what the differences are that might be helpful. Also please address the earlier questions here! ArthurPSmith (talk) 16:44, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- There is considerable variation. As I remember it, some French named are sorted with the nobiliary particle (Q355505) (which may make a better basename...) ignored, and some are not. Circeus (talk) 00:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just not very sure myself. The thing is: the Dutch have so many surnames that start with a prefix that we don't sort them by the prefix and don't capitalize it when written after a given name. In Belgium they do capitalize the prefix and, as far as I know, sort by the prefix itself. That makes it make sense, like Sjoerd said, to make it somehow a parameter of the family name of a person? --1Veertje (talk) 17:13, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment maybe on the surname item, one could simply add it with "has part" and qualify that with "object has role". --- Jura 04:33, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Trade (talk) 20:13, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:26, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, ChristianKl, ArthurPSmith, 1Veertje, Circeus, Trade: @Kristbaum, Sjoerddebruin, Pigsonthewing, Jura1: Done: infix (P7377). − Pintoch (talk) 09:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]