Wikidata:Property proposal/graduation rate

graduation rate edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

Done: graduation rate (P12469) (Talk and documentation)

Description	proportion of students who graduate from the institution in the given timeframe
Data type	Quantity
Domain	higher education institution (Q38723)
Allowed values	Between 0 and 1, inclusive
Example 1	University of Chicago (Q131252) → 0.91, multiplier of normal graduation time = 1
Example 2	Haverford College (Q579611) → 0.84, multiplier of normal graduation time = 1
Example 3	American University of Beirut (Q469482) → 0.66, multiplier of normal graduation time = 1
Example 4	Brown University (Q49114) → 0.96, multiplier of normal graduation time = 1.5
Example 5	Pomona College (Q7227384) → 0.93, multiplier of normal graduation time = 1.5
Example 6	Florida International University (Q1065809) → 0.67, multiplier of normal graduation time = 1.5
Source	https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate, https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/GraduationRate6Year/

normal graduation time edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

Done: normal graduation time (P12470) (Talk and documentation)

Description	expected or typical duration of an educational program from matriculation to graduation
Data type	Quantity
Domain	higher education institution (Q38723)
Allowed values	Between 0 and 50 years, exclusive
Example 1	Haverford College (Q579611) → 4 years
Example 2	Brown University (Q49114) → 4 years, applies to part (P518) = undergraduate education (Q1430192)
Example 3	Pomona College (Q7227384) → 4 years
Example 4	Georgia Military College (Q5547599) → 2 years
Example 5	University of Oxford (Q34433) → 3 years, applies to part (P518) = undergraduate education (Q1430192)

multiplier of normal graduation time edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

Done: multiplier of normal graduation time (P12471) (Talk and documentation)

Description	how much longer than "normal" someone took to graduate; use as qualifier for "graduation rate"
Data type	Quantity
Domain	As a qualifier of statements of graduation rate for higher education institution (Q38723) items
Allowed values	Between 0 and 10, exclusive
Example 1	(See examples for "graduation rate" above)

Motivation edit

A university or college's 4-year and 6-year graduation rates are significant, commonly tracked pieces of information about them, commonly include in Wikipedia articles. It would be helpful to record that information here. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:57, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Notified participants of WikiProject Higher education {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:09, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could we change this to "on-time graduation date", so that we could use this property more generally for programs with different terms? In the US a 4-year term is standard, while in the UK undergraduate courses take 3 years. Other programs take other lengths of time. I think it is the case that 4-year is most common and this is a common reporting metric, so perhaps it is best. It could be confusing to use a general property description. Thoughts from others? Bluerasberry (talk) 00:27, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, I would also support a general "graduation rate", later qualifiers can be used for the measurement. Germartin1 (talk) 02:14, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent suggestion, @Bluerasberry; I'm not sure how to modify the proposal (do I move this page?) but I consider it a friendly amendment.

@Germartin1, that's interesting, and would give us some additional flexibility. It'd require a new, rather awkwardly named qualifier, though, right? If we could figure that out, I'd definitely be open to it.

Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:14, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please edit the proposal: change name to "graduation rate" and add qualifiers to the examples. Ideally, find non-US examples so you can illustrate with different qualifiers.

Bluerasberry talks of "on-time graduation date", is that what you mean? For me if I graduate within a reasonable time, is more important compared to whether I graduate exactly on time.

If I take a 1-year break and graduate in 5 years instead of 4, shouldn't that be counted as a positive? Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 08:30, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IPEDS talks of "normal time", which I think is a less judgmental way to phrase it, so I'll use that. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:18, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Bluerasberry: It is my understanding that a 4-year term is no longer standard in the USA. It is now much longer, at least in Pacific North West public universities. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:52, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In light of the helpful feedback above, I've created multiplier of normal graduation time (Q117000940); I'd appreciate help building it out, as I don't know how to relate it to graduation (Q1054021). I'll restructure this proposal to be a generic graduation rate proposal and merge in the 6-year graduation rate property proposal shortly. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:20, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bluerasberry@Germartin1@Vladimir Alexiev, merged. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please describe multiplier of normal graduation time (Q117000940) a bit better: "metric intended for use as a qualifier with a graduation rate" describes what you want to USE IT for, but not WHAT IT IS. Eg for Pomona College above, assuming normal graduation time is 4y, then "percentage 1.5" means that 0.93 graduate within 6y, is that it?

Since this is always >=1 in the examples, the word "percentage" is not appropriate. Maybe use "multiplier" or "coefficient" Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 06:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev, yes, your interpretation is correct. Each institution has a normal graduation time — for a traditional U.S. university, that is generally four years, but as Bluerasberry pointed out above, in the UK it appears to be three years, and for a U.S. college offering associate degrees it might be two years. When we talk about graduation rate, we always need to decide how many years to give students before we count them as not graduating — otherwise we could never arrive at a measurement, since (to take it to the extreme) someone who enrolled in 1991 might theoretically just be taking their time and about to finish up. That's what this qualifier measures. The two common metrics in the U.S. are the normal time rate — e.g. what percentage of students at a 4-year college graduate in 4 years? — and the 1.5× normal time rate — e.g. what percentage of students at a 4-year college graduate in 6 years? But other countries might use others.

You are right about "percentage" being confusing; I've changed to "multiplier". Please feel free to make any other changes to that item that you feel are needed. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb:

I've edited the Description and Aliases.
- HOWEVER, you cannot use an item as a qualifier: you'd need to propose this "multiplier" as a property. I searched for props named "ratio", "multiplier" or "excess" and there isn't anything appropriate.
But I think you also need to capture "normal graduation time", since otherwise what good is the "multiplier"?
If colleges report graduation rates at different durations, then the best way to structure the data would be like this, where identation shows qualifiers:

Pomona College 
  graduation rate: 0.8
    duration:      4 annum          # P2047
    has quality:   normal duration  # P1552, new item
  graduation rate: 0.93
    duration:      6 annum

--Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 17:27, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev and others, hmm, do you think it'd be worth proposing "normal educational duration" as an independent property? I agree that it should be captured, but "has quality: normal duration" is more a qualifier of duration than a qualifier of graduation rate. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:53, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support It's useful info for me. Bangbang.S 03:47, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Question for @Sdkb:: Shouldn't multiplier of normal graduation time (Q117000940) be a property (to be used as a mandatory qualifier for this property here under discussion) instead of an item? If so, do you want to append it to your initial proposal? You would have my Support for both properties then. Jonathan Groß (talk) 08:23, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonathan Groß: I've added that, along with a property to capture normal graduation time, as above. Let me know if anything looks amiss. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Sdkb: Thank you. Should we make those qualifiers mandatory? Jonathan Groß (talk) 11:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The normal graduation time isn't intended as a qualifier. But yes, the "multiplier of normal graduation time" should be mandatory, and if an article has that but no value for normal graduation time, that should throw up a concern of some sort as well. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 05:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, an important property for education.--Arbnos (talk) 20:17, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ZI Jony, I noticed you marked two of the three as ready, and the third as "not done". Was that intentional? The properties are intended to all work together, and there seems to be consensus for the package — each institution will have a statement for normal graduation time, and then one or more statements for graduation rate, each qualified by the multiplier of normal graduation time. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:20, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sdkb, maybe I've missed something! However, fixed now. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 17:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb, Bluerasberry, Germartin1, Vladimir Alexiev, Bangbang.S, Jonathan Groß and @Arbnos Done: graduation rate (P12469), normal graduation time (P12470) and multiplier of normal graduation time (P12471). Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 05:59, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kirilloparma, thanks! How do we generate a constraint violation for an item that has multiplier of normal graduation time (P12471) but not normal graduation time (P12470)? Sdkb ^talk 18:21, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I attempted here; feel free to clean up if I've botched anything. Sdkb ^talk 18:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb: Yes, that's correct, however the constraint itself in this case should be on the main property and not on its qualifier, I moved it to the main property and now the violations will be triggered properly (example). Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 04:07, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]