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Property talk:P2521

Documentation

female form of label
female form of name or title
Descriptionfemale form of label
Representsfeminine (Q1775415)
Data typeMonolingual text
Domain
According to this template: terms: occupations and positions
According to statements in the property:
profession (Q28640), position (Q4164871), occupation (Q12737077), craft (Q2207288), hereditary title (Q5737899), royal or noble rank (Q355567), corporate title (Q11488158), kinship (Q171318), rank (Q4120621), fictional profession (Q17305127), family name (Q101352), class of ambassadors (Q29918287), Wikidata property (Q18616576), title of honor (Q3320743), academic title (Q3529618), Wikidata enumeration value (Q21874278) and job title (Q828803)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Usage notesUse P1560 for given names
Exampleactor (Q33999)actress
teacher (Q37226)onderwijzeres, δασκάλα, instruistino, Lehrerin, mestra, jitidan, instruktistino, instruktista, наставничка, lærarinne and lærerinne
Tracking: sameno label (Q42533371)
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P2521 (Q26250076)
See alsogiven name version for other gender (P1560), male form of label (P3321)
ListsHelp:Female form of label
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses17,569
  Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: graf (Q28989), count (Q3519259)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P2521#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value), SPARQL (new)
  Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P2521#scope, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Without qualifiers: this property should be used without any qualifiers. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P2521#Allowed qualifiers, SPARQL (new)
  Conflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410), human (Q5), given name (Q202444), male given name (Q12308941), female given name (Q11879590), unisex given name (Q3409032): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P2521#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Single value per language
An item would generally have P2521 statement per language. TODO: define exceptions (Help)
Violations query: SELECT ?item ?lang (COUNT(?monolingualstring) as ?count) (GROUP_CONCAT(?monolingualstring; separator=" // ") as ?list) { ?item wdt:P2521 ?monolingualstring . BIND(lang(?monolingualstring) as ?lang) FILTER ( ?item not in ( wd:Q4115189,wd:Q13406268,wd:Q15397819,wd:Q957729,wd:Q11631,wd:Q2259532,wd:Q33999 ) ) } GROUP BY ?item ?lang HAVING (?count > 1) ORDER BY DESC(?count) LIMIT 100
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P2521#Single value per language

Contents

Dictionary propertyEdit

I suppose that this property was created too early and it has to be suspended until Wiktionary will be supported. Otherwise we have risk of mixing notions and words. --Infovarius (talk) 09:33, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Infovarius,
Exaclty why I cas coming here  . How should we use this property? I tried this porperty but it raised a lot of question. For example : when two words are often and equally used for a concept, which one should we use as fermale form? sould we choose one (and how ?) or should we put female form of both? What about female form that are the same as the male form, should we add explicitly the information or not? How exactly should we understand « female form », should we distinguish (maybe with some qualifier?) : actor/actress (both are person who acts in an artistic works) and count/countess (the countess is often just the wife of the count, not a « female count » in herself).
I was wondering: in the long run, wouldn't it better to create items about words and then to link concept-item to word-item?
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 13:03, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
For one of the questions, see below.
It could be that the property isn't useful for some languages or items, e.g. in English or Russian. In this case, I wouldn't use it.
--- Jura 14:00, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I don't about Russian (I think there is female form in Russian but I'm unsure) but at least for English I'm sure there is female form (like actress even if actor is sometimes used too for female person). Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
@VIGNERON:, I agree with all problems you mentioned. In Russian sometimes there are more than one word for a concept (and for feminine form of it, accordingly), sometimes there are several feminine forms for 1 masculine (with different degree of rightness and popularity, may be regional variants), sometimes there is no distinct form. In first two cases I prefer to add as much words as possible, sometimes with appropriate ranks and/or qualifiers. --Infovarius (talk) 16:43, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Use if female form = male form ?Edit

There was a question in the French and Czech language forum about this.

Should we add the property if the label is equal for both genders (sample: fr:"journaliste" for Q1930187)?

For merely providing labels for infoboxes, as fr:Module:Dictionnaire Wikidata/Métiers currently does, this may not be needed.

For a general overview, such as Help:Female form of label/lists/all this can help.
--- Jura 14:00, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

  Comment I have no strong opinion but I see one advantage to indicate explicitely that the female and male form are the same : be sure that the values are same and it's not just a missing value. For french, at least all professions ending in -iste, -logue or -graphe have the same form for both female and male. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
As VIGNERON. In Italian there is the same problem. Indicate the same value for this property of the item's label is redundant, but not indicate any value generates a false positive for missing value in this query. --β16 - (talk) 13:58, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
So may be arugments show that this is not a redundancy and we have to indicate the same values. In all languages. Any objections? --Infovarius (talk) 07:07, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Sometimes both the masculine and feminine form are used, but one is prefered. We should be allowed to add a qualifier "noms alternatifs" to indicate the alternate feminine form, from the indicated prefered/most frequent one. E.g. the masculine form "maire" implied for men is most frequently used also for women (so the feminine form is equal to the masculine form, and used preferably with the masculine article: "Mme le maire" sometimes "Mme la maire"; but it has feminine form "mairesse", and used always with the feminine article "Mme la mairesse").
Unfortunately this property for the feminine form (or the alternate property for the masculine form) still does not allow any qualifier, not even the qualifier "alternate names".
Note: the standard form is the localized standard label of entities, it is preferably gender-neutral/unisex; the masculine and feminine form properties will be used only when the gender of the referenced entity (e.g. a known person) with this property (e.g. via a "function" property for a known person) directly can be determined. In all cases, the masculine and feminine forms are optional, should be the msot frequently used form, and can also have their own "alternate names" qualifier to specify other forms. May be we could also have "formal long form" qualifiers to indicate the alternate forms "Monsieur le maire", "Madame le maire" as qualifiers for the masculine and feminine forms...
Other note: the "masculine" or "feminine" form is supposed to reference the gender of a person; it may be different from the grammatical gender (e.g. "Madame le maire" designates a woman, feminine, but is grammatically masculine before "maire", the other alternate feminine long form is "Madame la maire" (where the noun "maire" is this time feminine...) and there's no conflict between the grammatical gender and the gender of the person; if we have long forms specified, the long form "Madame le maire" as a whole is still feminine grammatically and feminine for the designated person, so there's no gender conflict! Verdy p (talk) 23:51, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

WorkaroundEdit

Sometimes there are no single word for profession (e.g. Q82594). Should we try to mark some phrase which describes feminine form of it (like ru:учёная в области информатики)? --Infovarius (talk) 16:45, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@Infovarius: There are 2 points I would like to mention:
  1. If profession contains an adjective or adjective noun, relevant feminine form should form a combination with other adjectives (e. g. американская учёная в области информатики). If you are not sure if word is formal or informal, better not use it.
  2. Wikidata is not Wiktionary. Formal forms (like повариха or юристка) should not exist in Wikidata whether these forms are mentioned in dictionaries or not.
I'm going to create ru:Шаблон:Wikidata/p106 (no free time yet; maybe someone will create it faster than me) and integrate it in infoboxes in ruwiki. That's why I'm tracking usage of this property. By that time Russian feminine forms should be clean and precise as possible. --Lockal (talk) 10:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Создал ru:Шаблон:Wikidata/p106. Первый тест: ru:Шаблон:Универсальная карточка (250 использований). --Lockal (talk) 14:13, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

How to deal with unisex term ?Edit

Hi,

What property should we use to link items when a term is for one sex only ? For example, there is king/queen (which is a nightmare cash case since queen can be the name of the ruler, the name of the wife of the ruler, the name of the mother of the ruler, or a lot different things...).

@Infovarius, Jura1, Beta16, Lockal:

Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 17:20, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

king is different than King (one is an occupation, the other is a proper name). There is a problem with using this property in Dutch where for all female painters with biographies in Dutch Wikipedia, depending on certain factors (time period the painter lived for example) the female gendered term is used instead of the neutral male term. I would be curious to know if such a problem with usage of gendered terms exists in other languages. Jane023 (talk) 09:31, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

New subclasses proposed for type constrainEdit

May you consider to add the animated character (Q15711870) and/or fictional humanoid (Q28020127) as a subclasse accepted in items usin P2521 ?. Now we have fictional profession (Q17305127), however, sometimes the concept with gender consideration is not the profession but the individual name or the character group, as happens in smurf (Q15720641). Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 11:51, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Usage with Q1052281Edit

I propose that the current property female form of label (P2521) is also activated for transgender female (Q1052281) persons. --FocalPoint (talk) 09:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Return to "P2521" page.