Wikidata:Property proposal/second family name in Scandinavian names

middle family name edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

Descriptiongenerally applicable, but particularly for people from Denmark or Norway where the mother's maiden name is taken on as a "middle name",
Representsproperty
Data typeItem
Domainhuman (Q5)
Allowed valuesfamily name or initial. Sometimes the full name is not determinable
Example 1Bjørn Erik Broady Aasebø (Q59678508) 'middle family name' Broady (Q37541865) ('Erik' is a middle given name)
Example 2Lars Meinich Andersen (Q59772921) 'middle family name' Meinich (Q30152475)
Example 3Hanne Waaler Lier (Q59715170) 'middle family name' Waaler (Q21482456)
Example 4Tone Tveøy Strøm Gundersen (Q59643094) 'middle family name' Strøm (Q1804061) ('Tveøy' may also be a family name, we don't have an item for it?)
See alsofamily name (P734), second family name in Spanish name (P1950), patronym or matronym for this person (P5056), birth name (P1477), family name identical to this given name (P1533)

Motivation edit

see w:en:Middle_name#Scandinavia

I've been adding them as a second value to the "family name" property. This isn't entirely accurate 1Veertje (talk) 15:05, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

I'm not native to the region myself. I've been creating so many items about people from Norway because I'm processing the photographs from the Nordic Media Festival. In all I've made ~400 items for conference speakers that weren't listed on wikidata yet. It took a while for me to recognize why so many middle names weren't listed as common given names and how often those middle names looked like family names. It is common, especially in the slightly older generation it seems. 1Veertje (talk) 18:49, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
it's definitely different from Spanish second names. Going by the Wikipedia entry about this: a family name added as a "middle name" in this way can also be in reverence to a grandmother or even a non blood relative. I've also seen it happen that, like a middle name, these names are sometimes abbreviated to just the letter. I wouldn't be surprised if the S. in Harald S. Klungtveit (Q59780807) wasn't a given name but a name like this. 1Veertje (talk) 10:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@1Veertje: Right, I'm not saying it's the same as the Spanish case, it's clearly not. However, this happens frequently in English names also - my father's middle name ("Roylance") was from a family name, not a given name. James Clerk Maxwell (Q9095) (born in Scotland) had "Clerk" coming from a family name (actually it was the family name his father was born with, a slightly more complicated case). I was suggesting this proposal ought to be for a more general property to cover all these (non-Spanish) cases. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:48, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK! --1Veertje (talk) 19:29, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Notified participants of WikiProject Names

  •   Comment More on this at en:Middle name#Scandinavia. Perhaps it makes sense to limit this to Scandinavian names, as it seems to be more regulated than for English names. According to that enwiki page at least, these are simply referred to as "middle names" in Denmark and Norway, while a second given name is just one of the given names, not a "middle name" there. So "Scandinavian middle name" might be a suitable label here. Though the situation is more complicated for Sweden. Perhaps "middle family name" is a sufficiently clear neutral label? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:54, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Support - Salgo60 (talk) 15:58, 27 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Support - One comment though: Couldn't this be made to also include Portuguese naming convention, if I'm not mistaken they also use given name + mother's main family name + father's main family name, so reverse of what the Spanish do. Maybe other languages as well, if we do some quick research? Or maybe every language gets its own naming convention is the way to go? Just a thought. Moebeus (talk) 19:20, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Comment Can we consider relabeling this to "middle family name" to be more general? Unless there's a better label? ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:22, 2 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Comment prefer to have name fields more general, not based on nationality but based on rules. We will also have crossnational relationships, so it is not always clear which nationality a name belongs to. --Hannolans (talk) 11:12, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @1Veertje: I've adjusted the (English) label and description to be more general, are you ok with this version? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:29, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
yes 1Veertje (talk) 20:55, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Moebeus, ArthurPSmith, 1Veertje, Salgo60, Hannolans: @Arpyia, Jura1:   Done: Scandinavian middle family name (P6978). − Pintoch (talk) 17:36, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]