Property talk:P6216
Documentation
copyright status for intellectual creations like works of art, publications, software, etc.
Description | copyright status for any work of art or intellectual creation | ||||||||||||
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Represents | copyright status (Q50424085) | ||||||||||||
Data type | Item | ||||||||||||
Domain | work (Q386724), data (Q42848), collection (Q2668072), item of collection or exhibition (Q18593264), chord (Q170439), series of creative works (Q7725310), group of musical works (Q115473170) or fictional entity (Q14897293) | ||||||||||||
Allowed values | public domain (Q19652), copyrighted (Q50423863), not yet determined (Q59496158), unknown, copyrighted, dedicated to the public domain by copyright holder (Q88088423), orphan work (Q1546053) or no known copyright restrictions (Q99263261) | ||||||||||||
Example | Atomic Cloud Rises Over Nagasaki (Q55437339) → public domain (Q19652) One Thousand and One Nights (Q8258) → public domain (Q19652) Guernica (Q175036) → copyrighted (Q50423863) Mona Lisa (Q12418) → public domain (Q19652) Gutenberg Bible (Q158075) → public domain (Q19652) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (Q102438) → copyrighted (Q50423863) | ||||||||||||
Commons example |
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Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P6216 (Q107391557) | ||||||||||||
See also | copyright license (P275), public domain date (P3893), copyright holder (P3931), copyright representative (P6275), copyright status as a creator (P7763) | ||||||||||||
Lists | |||||||||||||
Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||
Current uses |
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Search for values |
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#One of, values statistics, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#Type Q386724, Q42848, Q2668072, Q18593264, Q170439, Q7725310, Q115473170, Q14897293, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#Single value, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#Entity types
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#Scope, SPARQL
Replacement property:
Replacement values: somevalue (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P6216#none of, SPARQL
Replacement property:
Replacement values: copyrighted (Q50423863) (Help)
This property is being used by: Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
Value public domain (Q15687061) will be automatically replaced to value public domain (Q19652). Testing: TODO list |
All statements require qualifiers to more precisly specify copyright status. (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT DISTINCT ?item { ?item p:P6216 ?statement. ?statement ?p ?q. FILTER (strstarts(str(?p),"http://www.wikidata.org/prop/qualifier/") = false) } LIMIT 1000
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P6216#Statements without qualifiers
This is a list of values used with the qualifier determination method (P459)
This list is periodically updated by a bot. Manual changes to the list will be removed on the next update!
WDQS | PetScan | TABernacle | Find images | Recent changes∑ 134 items.
not yet determined / Q59496158 as a value
editDominic, did you plan for this to be an allowed value, an exception, or just something for us to use through which to keep track? James F. (talk) 18:12, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- Done in [1], thanks Jarekt! James F. (talk) 19:06, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
data as an allowed domain?
editIn [2], Jarekt added data as an allowed domain. This feels quite wrong to me; copyright doesn't attach to non-creative works [yes yes, sweat of the brow] – that would be database rights, Q688416. James F. (talk) 19:05, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- James F. I was trying to align this property with constraints used by copyright license (P275) property. I guess we could search the use of copyright license (P275) where item is an instance of data (Q42848) but not work (Q386724) and see if they make sense. I just would like to change both of them at the same time. --Jarekt (talk) 19:10, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Jarekt: Ah, right. That makes sense. Thanks! James F. (talk) 19:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- This property is not exclusively for copyrightable works, since it takes "public domain" as a possible value. I supposed there are cases where it may be relevant to note the copyright status of non-creative works, and we should allow it, though I'm not sure where that slippery slope ends (you also can't copyright sadness (Q169251), but that's probably not worth saying). Dominic (talk) 01:01, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that this property is for any type of work that might be copyrightable and even some that are not. We do have images which are in Public domain using Template:PD-ineligible (Q5881610), for example some simple text logos, signatures or x-ray images. I assume this property will be used on Wikidata for artworks and on Commons for images. --Jarekt (talk) 03:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Dominic: I'd say that the "copyright status" of something is only meaningful with regard to something that could have a copyright attached to it. For example, creative photographs are copyrightable, and yet creative photographs taken in the course of their duties by agents of the US Federal Government are public domain because of the operation of the relevant law, not because they're magically not creative photographs. Having items that could not under any circumstances tagged with this property – be they datasets, emotions, or whatever – adds confusion. Having parallel properties for patents, design rights, database rights etc. could be a useful extension, but we shouldn't muddy this property by trying to overload it to mean "intellectual property concerns". James F. (talk) 18:48, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that this property is for any type of work that might be copyrightable and even some that are not. We do have images which are in Public domain using Template:PD-ineligible (Q5881610), for example some simple text logos, signatures or x-ray images. I assume this property will be used on Wikidata for artworks and on Commons for images. --Jarekt (talk) 03:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
copyright status justification
editMoved from Wikidata:Property proposal/copyright status: Do we have somebody prepared to create a proposal for copyright status justification? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:01, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- @ArthurPSmith: We already have and use determination method (P459) for that, for example 70 years or more after author(s) death (Q29870196) and 100 years or more after author(s) death (Q29940705). Doesn't that cover it? Multichill (talk) 23:15, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- But the status and justification can vary by country. No examples have been offered demonstrating the use of this property for a less than trivial case. For example: The Secret Adversary (Q617379) is a slightly more complicated case. The novel is PD in the United States, since it was published prior to 1922, but under copyright in the UK, because Agatha Christie died less than 70 years ago. The copyright status in other countries may vary. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:51, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Multichill, I forgot about that property as we always used word justification in describing it, but you are correct it is very close. determination method (P459) is quite natural fit for PD works, but I was hoping to use the same method for copyrighted works like my photos on Commons once we have Structured data. Would it work to have determination method (P459) = Template:Own (Q14401683) or some equivalent item? --Jarekt (talk) 03:48, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Besides determination method (P459) we use applies to jurisdiction (P1001) to declare the public domain date (P3893) if it differs per country (see examples), we can do the same for copyright status (P6216) --Hannolans (talk) 13:16, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe figure out the public domain case first before we switch to the next case? We might end up being able to use the existing property or creating a new one.
- For some interesting edge cases related to this have a look at Het achterhuis (Q14624856) and Truncated View of the Broekzijder Mill on the Gein Wings Facing West (Q19883472). But before we dive into the edge case, let's get agree on how to do some easy ones? Than we have a starting point to figure out the harder cases. Let's take Day of the God (Mahana no Atua) (Q3765980) as an example. I noticed my bot just uploaded a new image for it. I added public domain to it, but what qualifiers should be added? Multichill (talk) 13:29, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- It's a bit difficult to find what all the possible justifications (or determination methods) for copyright status would be. In an ideal world, maybe we need to first create an item for "copyright status justification" so that we can collect all the possible values by adding "instance of":"copyright status justification" to them and have a queryable list from that. This list would also be helpful for a help manual. Dominic (talk) 17:55, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Besides determination method (P459) we use applies to jurisdiction (P1001) to declare the public domain date (P3893) if it differs per country (see examples), we can do the same for copyright status (P6216) --Hannolans (talk) 13:16, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- @EncycloPetey: Does applies to jurisdiction (P1001) satisfy your concerns about jurisdiction issues, or is it more complicated than that? I can't think of a case where simply adding multiple values with different jurisdiction qualifiers wouldn't be appropriate, but I just want to be clear we are understanding your concern. Dominic (talk) 17:43, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know. I am simply seeking model exemplars that would address such situations. We need exemplars of correct property use for more complex cases so that editors will have a model to follow. The current exemplars for this property are trivially simple. If you can set up one or more exemplars for more complex cases, then we have something as a basis for discussion. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Multichill, I forgot about that property as we always used word justification in describing it, but you are correct it is very close. determination method (P459) is quite natural fit for PD works, but I was hoping to use the same method for copyrighted works like my photos on Commons once we have Structured data. Would it work to have determination method (P459) = Template:Own (Q14401683) or some equivalent item? --Jarekt (talk) 03:48, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- But the status and justification can vary by country. No examples have been offered demonstrating the use of this property for a less than trivial case. For example: The Secret Adversary (Q617379) is a slightly more complicated case. The novel is PD in the United States, since it was published prior to 1922, but under copyright in the UK, because Agatha Christie died less than 70 years ago. The copyright status in other countries may vary. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:51, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- As a start, what do people think of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q617379#P6216 as a start? (Needs references, and we'd need to tag Q47246828 to make determination method happy somehow). James F. (talk) 18:58, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- How would we add additional jurisdictions, such as Canada, India, or the EU? --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:33, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- I created countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) and used it at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q617379#P6216 . countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) contains partial list of countries based on list of countries' copyright lengths (Q3041655). We could also add info that it is also copyrighted in Countries with 50 years pma, but that might be an overkill. --Jarekt (talk) 04:59, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- Why would that be overkill? Some books will be copyright for both 50 and 70, but at some point they'll be PD for 50 and copyright for 70. And what about countries which have other timespans? --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:04, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- On Commons we only worry about copyright in country of origin and in the US (where the servers are). We could list copyright situation for every group of countries with different pma, but that seems to me as not necessary. --Jarekt (talk) 05:11, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- BTW I also have example #2 Day of the God (Mahana no Atua) (Q3765980). Thoughts? --Jarekt (talk) 05:13, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- Wikidata is not limited to the needs of Commons; it serves all MW projects and more. We have contributors from all over the world, including people who need to know whether a work is under copyright in their country, not just the US and the work's country of origin.
- Why would that be overkill? Some books will be copyright for both 50 and 70, but at some point they'll be PD for 50 and copyright for 70. And what about countries which have other timespans? --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:04, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- I created countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) and used it at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q617379#P6216 . countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) contains partial list of countries based on list of countries' copyright lengths (Q3041655). We could also add info that it is also copyrighted in Countries with 50 years pma, but that might be an overkill. --Jarekt (talk) 04:59, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- How would we add additional jurisdictions, such as Canada, India, or the EU? --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:33, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- Consider Pygmalion (Q637200), a play which is under copyright in the EU and UK because Shaw (the author) died in 1950 (less than 70 yrs pma), but is in PD for the US because it was published prior to 1923, and in Canada because copyright there is 50 yrs pma. How do we label the copyright status of this play when different jurisdictions have the same copyright status but differing reasons for that status? --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey Commons also serves all MW projects and more, we just prioritize country of origin and US. I am OK with people adding statements covering many different countries, although I think we should group them as much as possible. To label the copyright status of this play when different jurisdictions have the same copyright status but differing reasons, I would just add additional P6216=PD with different reason and different countries. --Jarekt (talk) 20:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- Can you please demonstrate what this would look like? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:18, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- I created items like countries with 50 years pma or shorter (Q59621182) and countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) to group many countries with similar copyright laws into a single item. I used them in Het achterhuis (Q14624856) for both PD and copyrighted cases. --Jarekt (talk) 05:58, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
- Can you please demonstrate what this would look like? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:18, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey Commons also serves all MW projects and more, we just prioritize country of origin and US. I am OK with people adding statements covering many different countries, although I think we should group them as much as possible. To label the copyright status of this play when different jurisdictions have the same copyright status but differing reasons, I would just add additional P6216=PD with different reason and different countries. --Jarekt (talk) 20:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- Consider Pygmalion (Q637200), a play which is under copyright in the EU and UK because Shaw (the author) died in 1950 (less than 70 yrs pma), but is in PD for the US because it was published prior to 1923, and in Canada because copyright there is 50 yrs pma. How do we label the copyright status of this play when different jurisdictions have the same copyright status but differing reasons for that status? --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Mass add this property to old paintings?
editWe currently have about 330.000 paintings here on Wikidata. A simple query for all the paintings that are made before 1800 or for which the painter died before 1900 returns 120.000 paintings. Should we mass add the public domain copyright status to these works? Should be a good way to kick start this property. Multichill (talk) 23:22, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- May be we should first write Help:Copyrights with examples of how to use this, and add them to a few items so we can see we are all on the same page. Than I think doing it for majority of artworks would be a great start. --Jarekt (talk) 03:52, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Multichill So how would such entry look like for those 120k paintings? I was thinking:
copyright status |
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add value |
- Is the determination method=100 years or more after author(s) death sufficient? Or should we have some other item? --Jarekt (talk) 19:41, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Jarekt: if we want to model the current situation on Commons we should add why it is out of copyright everywhere and in the USA. We got the everywhere covered, but not the USA pre-1923 part. How to do that? Multichill (talk) 17:39, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- For the USA pre-1923 part, wouldn't you need proof that these paintings were actually published in the USA prior to 1923? AFAIK just being created prior to that isn't enough. --Kam Solusar (talk) 18:18, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Jarekt: if we want to model the current situation on Commons we should add why it is out of copyright everywhere and in the USA. We got the everywhere covered, but not the USA pre-1923 part. How to do that? Multichill (talk) 17:39, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Is the determination method=100 years or more after author(s) death sufficient? Or should we have some other item? --Jarekt (talk) 19:41, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Multichill, Kam Solusar: So here is the problem: US copyright law for known authors is focused on date of publication. According to Berne and Universal Copyright Conventions , "publication" is defined as "distribution of copies to the general public with the consent of the author", and US definition seem to be similar. For majority of the paintings (or other artworks) there is no way to verify that they were ever published (in the US or elsewhere). For example to prove that Mona Lisa is in Public Domain in the US we would need to find something like pre-1923 book with it or prove that such book does not exist so we can use c:Template:PD-US-unpublished. So even in case of Mona Lisa I can not prove that it is in Public Domain without deep research. That is why most PD-old images on Commons do not have proof of being PD in US. We could create something like countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) for "Countries with retroactive pma copyright Laws" which would be most countries in the world except US and we would use that in case of applies to jurisdiction (P1001). By the way in case of unknown authors, US falls onto 120 years from creation, so maybe we can start with those. --Jarekt (talk) 21:05, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Also according to en:History of copyright law the earliest copyright laws date back to 1710, so one can assume that stuff created prior to that would be in Public Domain. However my understanding is that at least in the US, if someone finds new work by Shakespeare and publishes it in the US in years 1978 through 2002 than it is copyrighted until 2048. See c:Commons:Hirtle_chart and here. --Jarekt (talk) 21:17, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- We've been doing this on Commons for many years. I would like to model that situation, not make a new model. Multichill (talk) 11:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Multichill, Commons do not handle copyrights of old artworks in the US. For example, Mona Lisa has copyright statements that claims that is is PD in " countries where the copyright term is the author's life plus 100 years or less" and adds that "You must also include a US PD tag to indicate why this work is in the PD in the US.", but there is no US tag that applies, unless you know something about publication history, that we usually do not know. So maybe we could just create equivalent model by creating an item for "countries where the copyright term is the author's life plus 100 years or less". I raised this question again on Commons:Village_pump/Copyright. --Jarekt (talk) 14:14, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Fixed the Mona Lisa image to use Template:PD-old-100-1923.
- Did you notice the publication info linked from the template? Does that make it clearer. Let's see what the people on Commons can come up with. Multichill (talk) 17:49, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- Yes I like those links to c:Commons:Publication. I noticed them somewhere and like them enough to add them to many templates, (including PD-1923) as well as c:Commons:Hirtle chart. --Jarekt (talk) 04:36, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Multichill: That template asserts publication or registration with the US copyright office at or before a certain date. For a painting, it is always possible that neither of those assertions hold. What is wanted is a statement asserting either non-publication or some assertion suitable for a painting that is more than 400 years old. The template you have added makes assertions for which there is no backing evidence.
- And no, the publication info linked from the template does not make it clearer because the page says no such page exists. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:48, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Multichill: I also was never comfortable claiming that painting was published before 1923, and more precisely legally published with the blessing of the copyright holders, When in most cases we do not know anything about it. --Jarekt (talk) 05:08, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- We've been doing this on Commons for many years. I would like to model that situation, not make a new model. Multichill (talk) 11:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Also according to en:History of copyright law the earliest copyright laws date back to 1710, so one can assume that stuff created prior to that would be in Public Domain. However my understanding is that at least in the US, if someone finds new work by Shakespeare and publishes it in the US in years 1978 through 2002 than it is copyrighted until 2048. See c:Commons:Hirtle_chart and here. --Jarekt (talk) 21:17, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Multichill, Kam Solusar: So here is the problem: US copyright law for known authors is focused on date of publication. According to Berne and Universal Copyright Conventions , "publication" is defined as "distribution of copies to the general public with the consent of the author", and US definition seem to be similar. For majority of the paintings (or other artworks) there is no way to verify that they were ever published (in the US or elsewhere). For example to prove that Mona Lisa is in Public Domain in the US we would need to find something like pre-1923 book with it or prove that such book does not exist so we can use c:Template:PD-US-unpublished. So even in case of Mona Lisa I can not prove that it is in Public Domain without deep research. That is why most PD-old images on Commons do not have proof of being PD in US. We could create something like countries with 70 years pma or shorter (Q59542795) for "Countries with retroactive pma copyright Laws" which would be most countries in the world except US and we would use that in case of applies to jurisdiction (P1001). By the way in case of unknown authors, US falls onto 120 years from creation, so maybe we can start with those. --Jarekt (talk) 21:05, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- In the USA, unpublished works get into the public domain 120 years after creation, so any such works from before 1898 are in the public domain in the USA. So yes, we can add a public domain world wide tag to all paintings from before 1898 and whose author died before 1918. Regards, Yann (talk) 14:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Maybe we should use something like:
copyright status |
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add value |
With 2 mode q codes. --Jarekt (talk) 05:08, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- Why would we presume that a work was published? Also, the 1923 date is unrelated to the 120 years needed for works that were never published; those cannot be combined in a single statement because the length of time required is substantially different for the two. Further, the 1923 cutoff date for the US will change to 1924 in less than 11 days. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:28, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Jarekt, Hannolans: let's take a easy piece out of the pie: According to Commons:Commons:Hirtle chart if a work is unpublished, but created before 1898, it's in the public domain. So for the USA part we could just create an item "inception before 1898 and published or unpublished" (better name needed). That way we can have a way to properly model probably around 80%+ of the paintings. Do you think that would work? Multichill (talk) 14:10, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- Is it the inception date that is relevant here, or the completion date? For works that are published, it would be publication date, but which date is relevant for works that may not have been published? --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- For works after 1898 we should exclude US, and start adding publication date (P577). Is publication date (P577) an US issue only? Should we create a group of countries 70 pma with US excluded? Or use a qualifier? inception (P571) we should use for completion date or inception, we make no difference. But the latest dat should be used, as we are defining the copyright status about the last, completed version of that work. --Hannolans (talk) 16:57, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Hannolans: Publication date is mostly a US issue, but can be relevant outside the us if a work was published anonymously (has no author identified). For example, UK works published anonymously enter public domain 95 years after publication. Perhaps we should consider creating a decision tree (logic diagram, flowchart) to help clarify the issues relevant for copyright? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:15, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- Yes exactly. The date of publication is also relevant before or after 70 years related to copyright rules about published/unpublished works. Notably for documentation within archives. For example, the manuscripts of Anne Frank where published in 1987 in De dagboeken van Anne Frank (Q29562896), so the copyright has been extended until 2036, but in 2018 a new manuscript manuscript of Anne Frank's dairy (Q53655940) was published, and as the publication date was after 70 years pma, those sentences are public domain. --Hannolans (talk) 20:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Hannolans: Publication date is mostly a US issue, but can be relevant outside the us if a work was published anonymously (has no author identified). For example, UK works published anonymously enter public domain 95 years after publication. Perhaps we should consider creating a decision tree (logic diagram, flowchart) to help clarify the issues relevant for copyright? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:15, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Jarekt, Hannolans: let's take a easy piece out of the pie: According to Commons:Commons:Hirtle chart if a work is unpublished, but created before 1898, it's in the public domain. So for the USA part we could just create an item "inception before 1898 and published or unpublished" (better name needed). That way we can have a way to properly model probably around 80%+ of the paintings. Do you think that would work? Multichill (talk) 14:10, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
@Multichill, Hannolans, EncycloPetey: So if we narrow down the discussion to works that are either:
- created by known authors who died more than 100 years ago, or
- created by unknown authors more than 120 years ago
Than we can presume that one of the following is true:
- the work was never published, or
- the work was published before 1923
which would make such works also PD in the US. The cases of works legally published after 1923, which might still be copyrighted are very rare, but we should be ready to accept them if properly referenced. See also c:Copyright#Old_Paintings_and_the_US_Copyright discussion. --Jarekt (talk) 03:07, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- No, we cannot make those assumptions. Some works by writers or illustrators are famously published posthumously, often with notes or emendations for a work that was incomplete at the time of the author's death. And US copyright may have been renewed (in the author's behalf) by heirs or publishers. Your reasoning above is backwards for determining US copyright. For US copyright, we need to know the date of publication is sufficiently old, or else know that it was not published, and this requires research (due diligence) in the copyright registration databases to ascertain. Your summation works for most countries, but not for the US, and there may be other situations of which I am unaware.
- If we know that a work was published prior to 1923, it is PD in the US regardless of any other considerations. (or prior to 1924 after the start of the new year). But if we do not know when it was published, or do not know whether or not it was published, then we do not know its copyright status in the US. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:14, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey we do have hundreds of thousands of old artworks on Wikidata many of them more than 2-3 hundred years old, It is not reasonable to expect to do "required research (due diligence) in the copyright registration databases" to check each such artwork, unless we can do it in a batch mode somehow. Also in case of artworks, the term publish is not clearly defined, for example printing it in a book is considered publishing when done with a blessing of the copyright owners, but public display without prohibition of copying might also be a form of publishing. I do not think we can do enough due diligence to figure out why Leonardo da Vinci artworks are in the PD in the US, but I think we can agree that they are not copyrighted. I am just trying to come out with pragmatic solution to the problem, because we were trying your proposed solution of due diligence on Commons, and somehow not many people are interested in painful research to figure out why something is in PD. Alternative approach of slapping template claiming that it was either published or not published also seems wrong without any proof of publication. --Jarekt (talk) 15:37, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- If due diligence is not possible, then we would have to tag the works as such, but that leaves open the possibility of a lawsuit. Yes, due diligence is a painful process, but the requirement for due diligence is not mine, it is the legal expectation under US law. The best we could say, without checking, is that "we don't know" whether or not it's in public domain by US standards. Personally, I expect you are correct about the paintings of Leonardo da Vinci, but the contents of some of his notebooks might not be. We need someone trained in copyright law to provide advice. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:47, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey I am not proposing to change any current practices for PD-old-100 works which for Commons mean that we ignore US copyrights, since we know works are in PD but can not determine exactly why. Alternative approach of throwing a coin and adding either c:template:PD-1923 or c:template:PD-US-unpublished without any proof of validity for the chosen template also seems flawed. That is what we have been doing for last 15 years. With Wikidata we have a chance to do it differently if we choose to, so as far as I can tell when adding copyright statements to couple hundred thousand PD-old-100 works we can either ignore US jurisdiction or we can add a statement saying why we pressume it to be in public domain. I guess the 3rd posibility is to kick the can down the road and ignore US jurisdiction for now and come back to it in the future. Which solution do you prefere? --Jarekt (talk) 14:22, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
- I decline to recommend one of these three action with regard to US copyright, since I am not a copyright lawyer. I do not know which course would legally be the safest, and am not really happy with any of those options. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:29, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Jarekt:, thanks for trying to find a solution here.
- Let's go for the "work created over 120 years ago" option That covers both published and unpublished works. Do you want to create an item for that or do we already have one? Multichill (talk) 18:38, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
- Multichill According to c:Template:PD-US-unpublished, for that rule to apply it has to be "an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, and it was created before 1899". So we would have to apply it to works of "Master of ..." type of artists. I created 120 years after creation of unpublished work by an author whose year of death is not known (Q60327903) for unknown or anonymous artists and we already have 70 years or more after author(s) death (Q29870196) for known ones. Also I think that it is OK do add statements for jurisdictions we know and not have statements for jurisdictions we are not sure, like US. Since it is hard to proove that work was not published. --Jarekt (talk) 04:46, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- I decline to recommend one of these three action with regard to US copyright, since I am not a copyright lawyer. I do not know which course would legally be the safest, and am not really happy with any of those options. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:29, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey I am not proposing to change any current practices for PD-old-100 works which for Commons mean that we ignore US copyrights, since we know works are in PD but can not determine exactly why. Alternative approach of throwing a coin and adding either c:template:PD-1923 or c:template:PD-US-unpublished without any proof of validity for the chosen template also seems flawed. That is what we have been doing for last 15 years. With Wikidata we have a chance to do it differently if we choose to, so as far as I can tell when adding copyright statements to couple hundred thousand PD-old-100 works we can either ignore US jurisdiction or we can add a statement saying why we pressume it to be in public domain. I guess the 3rd posibility is to kick the can down the road and ignore US jurisdiction for now and come back to it in the future. Which solution do you prefere? --Jarekt (talk) 14:22, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
- If due diligence is not possible, then we would have to tag the works as such, but that leaves open the possibility of a lawsuit. Yes, due diligence is a painful process, but the requirement for due diligence is not mine, it is the legal expectation under US law. The best we could say, without checking, is that "we don't know" whether or not it's in public domain by US standards. Personally, I expect you are correct about the paintings of Leonardo da Vinci, but the contents of some of his notebooks might not be. We need someone trained in copyright law to provide advice. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:47, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey we do have hundreds of thousands of old artworks on Wikidata many of them more than 2-3 hundred years old, It is not reasonable to expect to do "required research (due diligence) in the copyright registration databases" to check each such artwork, unless we can do it in a batch mode somehow. Also in case of artworks, the term publish is not clearly defined, for example printing it in a book is considered publishing when done with a blessing of the copyright owners, but public display without prohibition of copying might also be a form of publishing. I do not think we can do enough due diligence to figure out why Leonardo da Vinci artworks are in the PD in the US, but I think we can agree that they are not copyrighted. I am just trying to come out with pragmatic solution to the problem, because we were trying your proposed solution of due diligence on Commons, and somehow not many people are interested in painful research to figure out why something is in PD. Alternative approach of slapping template claiming that it was either published or not published also seems wrong without any proof of publication. --Jarekt (talk) 15:37, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
Model Item
editDo we have a Model Item for this property? I'd love to see a nice juicy and complex copyright story with different jurisdictions, editions, competing perspectives and dates... something we can use to really express the flexibility of this property. Perhaps Diary of Anne Frank (Q6911) would be a good one - see the en.wp description of it's copyright history at The Diary of a Young Girl # Copyright and ownership of the originals. Wittylama (talk) 13:19, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
- Liam, copyright of Diary of Anne Frank (Q6911) which include several editions, seem to be a mess. Original Manuscripts by Anne Frank (Q29571913) seem to be only written by Anne Frank, it is in Public Domain and we can document various copyright owners. Het achterhuis (Q14624856) (1947 version) has more messy copyright history, it seems like it is in Public Domain since 2016, however Anne Frank Fund (Q565286), the last copyright owner, now claims that the book was co-authored by Otto Frank and they still hold the copyrights, so we can try to model disputed claims. Other versions would have translator copyrights and copyrights by later editors, like 1986 version: De dagboeken van Anne Frank (Q29562896). So copyright of Diary of Anne Frank (Q6911) which include many editions might be too messy to tackle, but manuscripts by Anne Frank (Q29571913) and Het achterhuis (Q14624856) would be OK. --Jarekt (talk) 19:17, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
- it looks like you've done an excellent job on Het achterhuis (Q14624856) now already Jarekt, building on the work of Hannolans. I propose it should be listed as Model Item for that property's usage! How do we make that statement? Wittylama (talk) 11:23, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
- The copyright of the works of Anne Frank is a debate, due to rules for unpublished versus published works and postuum works. We need to take in account the publication date besides the creation date as the original publication didnt include all the manuscripts as some texts of the manuscrpts where published in 1986 and thus have other copyright rules. What we can do is add qualifiers for the part of work that was published versus unpublished and have multiple copyright statuses if needed. If we are able to do so we have a perfect example that we even can even handle complex copyright situations --Hannolans (talk) 11:45, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
- it looks like you've done an excellent job on Het achterhuis (Q14624856) now already Jarekt, building on the work of Hannolans. I propose it should be listed as Model Item for that property's usage! How do we make that statement? Wittylama (talk) 11:23, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
- No, we do not have model items. See the discussion above (in #copyright status justification) where we determined that only the very simplest situations could be handled with the current setup. A new proposal has been started (see below at #Rights statements). --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:13, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Liam, I added copyright statements to Het achterhuis (Q14624856). One can make it much more complicated by also modeling copyright status in the past while distinguishing it from the present by start time (P580)/end time (P582) qualifiers. --Jarekt (talk) 06:03, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
- How can Otto Frank be the "Author" of Anne's Frank's diary? --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- He was the editor (P98) of the 1947 publication Het achterhuis (Q14624856). BTW at that time he claimed he didnt change the text, only created a collection of the diary entries. --Hannolans (talk) 15:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- Then he is the "Editor", not the "Author". The copyright statements claim him as author. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, that is incorrect, and Anne Frank Foundation doesn't claim he is co-author, see https://www.annefrank.ch/qa.html The issue is that he made editorial choices in which parts to include, and for the diary manuscripts that not all parts where published in the 1947 version. --Hannolans (talk) 17:09, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- Then he is the "Editor", not the "Author". The copyright statements claim him as author. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- He was the editor (P98) of the 1947 publication Het achterhuis (Q14624856). BTW at that time he claimed he didnt change the text, only created a collection of the diary entries. --Hannolans (talk) 15:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Rights statements
editRelevant to this subject, I have proposed a "rights statement" property, using the RightsStatements.org statements, here: Wikidata:Property proposal/rights statement. Dominic (talk) 14:43, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
I began working on Help:Copyrights which I was hoping would become a help page for copyright statements. Please comment (on Help talk:Copyrights) or expand. We can also use more diverse examples. --Jarekt (talk) 06:08, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
date as necessary qualifiery
editEach creative work will be in public domain when some time passes. So i suppose Wikidata should reflect copyright status for specific periods of time, not in general (current? it will be obsolete in some time) --Infovarius (talk) 13:57, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Jarekt: could you please add a date too? --Infovarius (talk) 19:48, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
- So far we were mostly adding statements for Public Domain works, and modeling of still copyrighted items still has some uncertainties, for example how to model works with c:template:Own and some free license (Q196294), vs. works with some sort of proprietary license (Q3238057). I agree that still copyrighted works should also use public domain date (P3893). However I do not think any Public Domain works need dates, although it would be fine if they did. I was actually thinking about starting a new discussion at Help talk:Copyrights about modeling of copyrighted statements. I will make sure to include need for public domain date (P3893). --Jarekt (talk) 20:12, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Author and Editor
editCould someone please help with The Tragedy of King Richard the Second (Q59570050)? This volume is:
- public domain in the US by virtue of the publication date (>95 years ago)
- public domain outside the US by virtue of the author's date of death William Shakespeare (Q692) (>100 years ago)
- under copyright outside the US by virtue of the editor's date of death Llewellyn Morgan Buell (Q59570140) (d. 1975)
The editor wrote all of the footnotes, endnotes, the index, and several appendices. Are we taking this sort of situation into account? I am seeing lots of works like this being tagged as "public domain" even though there is a contributor to the volume such as an editor, illustrator, or translator who died much more recently than the author. How do we indicate copyright based on the editor, illustrator, or translator? --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- Per our discussion on my talk page I added clarification to The Tragedy of King Richard the Second (Q59570050) that the only applies to body text (Q1378314) within that jurisdiction, and if that fix is deemed sufficient I will apply it to other similar works. Is it sufficient? --Jarekt (talk) 23:39, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- No, that only partly answers my question. How do we handle the copyright status of the portion of the book created by its editor? 20% of the book consists of editorial notes and appendices with a different copyright status because they were prepared by the editor, and are under copyright in most countries outside the US. How do we indicate this? --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:57, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey, how about now. I added copyright statement about front and back matter of a book (Q61782498). --Jarekt (talk) 03:05, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, thanks. It helps to have a model item for these situations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey, By the way there were only 200-300 items claiming 100 year pma with editor dead least than 100 years ago. Most were dead more than 70 years so I changed the claim to 70 year pma. Few remaining items I just removed 100 year pma claim. So at this point all copyrights should be OK. See below --Jarekt (talk) 04:16, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, thanks. It helps to have a model item for these situations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- EncycloPetey, how about now. I added copyright statement about front and back matter of a book (Q61782498). --Jarekt (talk) 03:05, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- No, that only partly answers my question. How do we handle the copyright status of the portion of the book created by its editor? 20% of the book consists of editorial notes and appendices with a different copyright status because they were prepared by the editor, and are under copyright in most countries outside the US. How do we indicate this? --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:57, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
SELECT distinct ?item ?itemLabel ?copyright ?dod{
?item wdt:P6216 ?copyright .
VALUES ?copyright { wd:Q19652 wd:Q15687061 } # P6216 main value = public domain
?item wdt:P98/wdt:P570 ?dod .
FILTER(YEAR(?dod) > 1918) # exclude if date of death < 1919
?item p:P6216/pq:P1001 wd:Q60332278 .# exclude if P1001 for USA present
?item p:P6216/pq:P459 wd:Q29940705 .
SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en" }
} LIMIT 100
Buildings and sculptures in public places
editWould it make sense to use the property for buildings and sculptures in public places for use in jurisdictions where there is no Freedom of Panorama? I saw the need for something like this in cases like in Wiki Loves Monuments, or in tools like WikiShootMe where the tool asks to upload a picture that eventually will be deleted because the building/monument/sculpture is still copyrighted. -Geraki (talk) 08:23, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
- This property can be used for all creative architecture and designs, not only in jurisdictions where there is no freedom of panorama. --Hannolans (talk) 09:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Published in the United States between 1923 and 1977 without a copyright notice
editWhat value do I use with determination method (P459) to indicate that a work is public domain in the United States because it was published between 1923 and 1977 without a copyright notice? I need to add this information on Aida (Q55231785). --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:54, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
"possibly copyrighted" or "partially copyrighted"
editAny opinion on how we should model statements in external databases such as "possibly copyrighted" or "partially copyrighted"? For "possibly", I suppose you can do something like nature of statement (P5102)possibly (Q30230067) as a qualifier, but I am not sure which value to use with that qualifier (since technically the meaning is that any is possible). For "partially", I am even less sure, but perhaps something along the lines of applies to part (P518)component (Q1310239) as a qualifier. Or maybe this isn't the right approach and we should create new entity items for these statuses? Example authority list with these concepts: [3]. Thoughts? Dominic (talk) 17:30, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- We have unknown (Q24238356) if a work is evaluated but it is not known if it is copyrighted or not. We could also create a more specific item specifically for copyright. --Hannolans (talk) 17:37, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- I guess I interpreted "possibly" as slightly different in meaning than "unknown," based on how they define the terms. They have a term for "undetermined" defined as "Use when it is unknown if the archival materials have a use restriction." and "possibly" is "Use if the archival materials may have a use restriction.". Is there a difference between "unknown" and "may have"? I can't really articulate it, but they seem to think so. Dominic (talk) 19:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- archives.gov has a list like right statements, it is not a copyright list. If we have databases that has the concept 'partially copyrighted' I think we should follow them and create an item for that as it is a concept. applies to part (P518) would be better but if the database doesn't say which part, we can't convert it to applies to part (P518). Do you know an online database that uses the concepts you mentioned? --Hannolans (talk) 17:41, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Hannolans: You're right that the list I linked to does not refer exclusively to copyright (they call it "use restriction status"), but the terms there are the available values for marking copyright restrictions. So, the way they mark a record as partially or possibly restricted due to copyright, is to use that term for the "use restriction" field, and then use "Copyright" as the qualifier for the "specific" use restriction. So this is the copyright status term list, basically. Here is an example so you can see what I mean: [4]. Dominic (talk) 19:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
"determination method" when relying on source's determination
editHow should I fill out the required "determination method" qualifier if the copyright status is based on reliance on a source, rather than our own determination? I think this is a common situation for cultural repositories—if copyright status is listed, it is rare that a justification is provided by the source institution. In this case, we should still import the copyright status, but we need to have a way to state that the determination was made by the dataset owner's determination. Dominic (talk) 19:47, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
- determined by GLAM institution and stated at its website (Q61848113) --Hannolans (talk) 22:06, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Hannolans: Thanks so much, that's exactly what I needed. Dominic (talk) 22:12, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Copyleft
editRestriction is copyright, public domain etc. but I cannot found Copyleft. Maybe worth adding? I cannot edit property. --Architekt1024 (talk) 05:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- Those are licenses. The works are still copyrighted, but are licensed under a free (copyleft) license. Multichill (talk) 10:19, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- If that's why you haven't added copylefted to the list of permissible properties, then why is there "Copyrighted, dedicated to the public domain by copyright holder"? Assuming that all this particular property cares about is whether or not it's copyrighted, then I don't think that the 'dedicated to the public domain' clause is strictly necessary. I feel like if you're going to include that in the list of distinctions, then I can't imagine a very compelling reason not to include copylefted. LiftedStarfish (talk) 12:41, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
- Oops, added it back in to match the item-requires-statement constraint on copyright license (P275) before I saw this discussion. Perhaps going in the other direction might be desirable? That would be swapping 'copyrighted' for a hypothetical 'copyrighted - no public license'. This would cause constraint errors on most uses of this property, but perhaps it would better clarify the status of the tagged items. Arlo Barnes (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Adding ineligible for copyright protection
editCan/Should we add ineligible for copyright protection (Q61005058) to the list? I saw that it is listed on this page under determination method (P459), but I think it's more like copyrighted, dedicated to the public domain by copyright holder (Q88088423). Being ineligible for copyright protection is in my opinion a copyright status by itself representing a NULL (nil, empty) value since a copyright protection is not possible in the first place afterall. An example would be this image. It is indeed too simple to be eligible for copyright. I don't think that a copyright holder could dedicate it to the public domain.
The main use of adding this would be to tag files on Wikimedia Commons such as the example image. Any thoughts? --D-Kuru (talk) 05:50, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- D-Kuru I'm not an expert but this seems to be just what I need for The Music of the Spheres: The creator had no right on the characters and settings in the text, so she was unable to distribute it. She herself stated This book cannot be copyrighted🤷. What do you think? --Loominade (talk) 07:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Loominade: Since there was no answer I have asked the global chat: Wikidata:Project_chat#copyright_status_(P6216)
- If there is no answer I can only assume that nobody cares and it's therefore OK to add the value
- --D-Kuru (talk) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
- I have done so
#noonecaresocracy
😅 --Loominade (talk) 17:07, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
- I have done so
- @D-Kuru: @Multichill: aaaaand its gone! --Loominade (talk) 07:00, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Loominade: Thats why I was asking, because I was pretty sure someone who has not participated in any conversation here and did not even leave a (short) note would just undo the edit.
- @Multichill: This is the only logical step forward. If public domain is public domain no matter of it's source copyrighted, dedicated to the public domain by copyright holder (Q88088423) must not be listed in there as well. --D-Kuru (talk) 10:05, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Loominade, D-Kuru: sorry, I overlooked this conversation. This property is to indicate the property status, not why something has a certain property status.
- In some countries it's possible to put works in the public domain and in other countries this is impossible so it's copyrighted. copyrighted, dedicated to the public domain by copyright holder (Q88088423) is the item to model that problem and is subclass of both public domain (Q19652) and copyrighted (Q50423863). So it's quite different than ineligible for copyright protection (Q61005058). The blunt removal caused over 6 million constraint violations so I will restore it. Multichill (talk) 18:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @D-Kuru: @Multichill: aaaaand its gone! --Loominade (talk) 07:00, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
aliases
edit@Multichill: The reason why I wanted aliases starting with CC for copyright status (P6216) and copyright license (P275) is that when adding statements in the Commons Structured Data view, especially as part of the upload process, one searches for property labels/aliases in order to add them, and typing out 'copy' gives other, not desired results (copyright status as a creator (P7763), copyright representative (P6275), based on (P144), after a work by (P1877), copyright holder (P3931), public domain date (P3893), etc.). Arlo Barnes (talk) 22:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Don't use copylefted
editThis property is to document the copyright status. As the first sentence of Copyleft says: "Copyleft is the legal technique of granting certain freedoms over copies of copyrighted works with the requirement that the same rights be preserved in derivative works". So these works are copyrighted, they just have a free copyright license (P275). Multichill (talk) 21:45, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- @aismallard: you seem to have caused the most constraint violations. Can you fix these?
- @Middle river exports: I restored the non conflicting version of this property. Please keep it like this. Multichill (talk) 21:51, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Is P3893 allowed qualifier?
editThe property definition say that allowed qualifiers constraint (Q21510851) includes public domain date (P3893). And this P3893 appears in the qualifier hint dropdown when I edit values of this property. But when I set P3893 as a qualifier, there is an error warning that it shouldn't be a qualifier: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q188538#P6216. Vladis13 (talk) 16:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Vladis13: that's incorrect. I removed public domain date (P3893) from the list because it shouldn't be used as a qualifier, but as a statement, see Property:P3893#P2302. Multichill (talk) 19:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)