Wikidata:Property proposal/AKL Online Artist ID
AKL Online Artist ID edit
Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control
| Description | artwork identifier in the Artists of the World Online database (aliases: "AKLONLINE Artist ID"@en, "Artists of the World Online ID"@en, …) |
|---|---|
| Represents | Artists of the World Online (Q41640909) |
| Data type | External identifier |
| Template parameter | for Template:ThB (Q14440567) in dewiki proposed, would be useful also for Template:Vollmer (Q15865946) and Template:AKL (Q26004933) |
| Domain | human (Q5) |
| Allowed values | (\d{8}T?|[a-z\d-]{36})(alternative is for catching [1]) |
| Example | |
| Source | https://www.degruyter.com/databasecontent?dbid=akl&dbsource=%2Fdb%2Fakl |
| External links | Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt]. |
| Planned use | manual and asap Mix'n'match assisted adding to help sourcing data |
| Formatter URL | https://www.degruyter.com/view/AKL/_$1 |
| Robot and gadget jobs | Mix'n'match hopefully |
| See also | Union List of Artist Names ID (P245), RKDartists ID (P650) |
| Proposed by | Marsupium (talk) 05:23, 6 October 2017 (UTC) |
- Motivation
To cite them: “The database Allgemeines Künstlerlexikon Online / Artists of the World Online is the world's most contemporary, reliable and extensive reference work on artists. It contains authoritative, up-to-date biographical information on more than 1 million artists - more than any other database in the world!” Indeed, AKL Online is often a good and also only online available resource for an artist. A description in French with an example better then the image here can be found at http://paris-sorbonne.libguides.com/AKL. (Another English one.) Two of the currently most used sources for artists' biographical data here, Union List of Artist Names (Q2494649) (example citing Thieme-Becker) and RKDartists (Q17299517) (example citing Saur 1992-), rely themselves on the dictionaries compiled in Artists of the World Online (Q41640909). So this property can help to leave out one link in the chain of information copying.
Unfortunately the texts are – with few exceptions – in German, basic data is in English though. Much worse: All that rich knowledge is behind a paywall, only the lemmata are visible for free – much worse than NE.se ID (P3222) where the beginning of an article is visible. TLG author ID (P3576) e.g. has the problem, too, and there have been some remarks on the issue on their property proposal discussion and especially at Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2017/04#TLG that did not generally refuse identifier properties for paywalled content.
So I propose this property warily and still emphatically to at least partly free that closed content. I think basic data has no copyright and can be fetched and feeded to Mix'n'match. It is valuable itself. However, for matching it often won’t suffice. Some might have access through their trusted library. If not, I could help out with my proxy.
And: Should the underscore be included in the identifier? They themselves write the ID with it. But it‘s handier wlthout for copypasting etc. --Marsupium (talk) 05:23, 6 October 2017 (UTC), Marsupium (talk) 14:25, 6 October 2017 (UTC), Marsupium (talk) 15:24, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- Discussion
WikiProject sum of all paintings has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.
Notified participants of WikiProject Visual arts new try … --Marsupium (talk) 15:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Support I will support, if only for the cross-checking possible at Mix-n-Match. It could get very messy very quickly however and I will probably not use it unless it's for very oddly spelled names. All I see is the <last name, first name> so I can only hope that the screenshot you have provided is indeed available. It would be nice to have access to the Thieme-Becker text, and I suppose the early Thieme-Becker is now free of copyright, so that could eventually put on Wikisource and the names converted, I suppose. Jane023 (talk) 15:45, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- The first 15 volumes are on the Internet Archive, see s:de:Biographische_Nachschlagewerke#T. Somehow names, gender, occupation and date and place of birth and death should be scraped. But even if the threshold of originality isn't reached and copyright is no problem, doing that without violating all terms of use and getting thrown out might get tricky. Having that data in Mix'n'match and separately to possibly bot-add it would be perfect. --Marsupium (talk) 16:52, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- Weak Support. I don't have a problem with us cross-referencing to closed databases, in fact I think it can be useful to bring them into the light. However, from the links above it seems that literally all that people clicking a link from MnM will be able to see is "Surname, Forename". In too many cases, that may not be enough for reliable matching. Nevertheless, giving the link where we can, and their preferred form for the artist's name using the qualifier subject named as (P1810), where we reliably can make a match, probably does have some value. Jheald (talk) 16:59, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- Regarding the volumes published between 1907 and 1922, these are interesting, but presumably the online database has been updated considerably since then? Nevertheless it might be a good source for names, nationalities and dates -- or at least what they were considered to be in 1922. The Internet Archive's OCR isn't great though, even with two copies to compare. A workable extraction might not be easy. Plus, the historic volumes might better be considered a separate indexing project altogether, in the same way we distinguish link the historic UK Dictionary of National Biography quite separately from the current online ODNB.
- On another score, do we think there's any possibility that De Gruyter might offer any subcriptions through the WikiLibraries programme? Have any German publishers offered any engagement with the WL programme? Jheald (talk) 17:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- Matching with Mix'n'match can only work (reliably) if the occupation and date and place of birth and death are displayed in Mix'n'match it iself without having the access because then the AKL's page isn't a big help. The current database merges several dictionary projects. So there are the original articles from the 37 volumes of Thieme-Becker-Vollmer (Q1361256) (1907-1950) including the 15 first that are on Internet Archive. And then there are rewritten or completely new articles from the later projects Vollmer (Q41638331) (1953-1962), Allgemeines Künstlerlexikon (Q15791802) (1969-), Künstlerlexikon der Antike (Q1797179) (2001, 2004), Lexikon der Künstlerinnen 1700–1900 (Q41709664) (2004), Nürnberger Künstlerlexikon (Q21531823) (2007) in parallel which are if they exist a better source of course.
- Concerning the access:
- You may have a look if your next state or university or whatever bigger library offers the access (perhaps try worldcat; those at least have: FR: some Sorbonne(s); NL: VU Amsterdam; DE, CH, US: many).
- Wikipedia:De Gruyter (Q18280659) looks good. At least via WMDE it seems to be available.
- I could also help out in a possibly half-legal way.
- Best, --Marsupium (talk) 19:26, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Question @Marsupium: Does ULAN refer to this source as "Thieme-Becker, Allgemeines Lexikon der Künstler (1980-1986)"? Then it's http://vocab.getty.edu/ulan/source/2100153979, and at http://vocab.getty.edu/ulan/source/2100153979?role=object you can see the number of times it's used. That's less than 35k artists, because for some it's listed as a source of both the artist, and the subject.
- It's obviously an important source, but given that it's strongly closed (I get "Users without a subscription are not able to see the full content. Please, subscribe or login to access all content."), you need to elaborate more how WD editors could use it. Can we liaise with Wikipedia Libraries who I think procure such sort of access for select editors? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 15:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Vladimir Alexiev: Thanks for your questions, I somehow missed them, sorry! To the first: http://vocab.getty.edu/ulan/source/2100153979 has dcterms:title "Thieme, Ulrich and Felix Becker, editors. Allgemeines Lexikon der bildenden Künstler von der Antike bis zur Gegenwart. Reprint of 1907 edition. 37 vols. Leipzig: Veb E.A. Seemann Verlag, 1980-1986.", so it's the reprint of Thieme-Becker-Vollmer (Q1361256) and part of Artists of the World Online (Q41640909) (see my reply just above you). To the second: There are several possibilities, see my reply just above you. Best regards, --Marsupium (talk) 15:54, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support This is obviously important though I got no clue how WDians are going to use it. @Marsupium, Jheald: the key is "do we think there's any possibility that De Gruyter might offer any subcriptions through the WikiLibraries programme? Have any German publishers offered any engagement with the WL programme?": do you know anyone from the WikiLibraries programme? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 13:04, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
- This source is used for 20.7k ULAN persons:
select * {?x a gvp:Subject; dct:source ulan_source:2100153979}
- @Vladimir Alexiev: OK, now directly citing myself;): “Wikipedia:De Gruyter (Q18280659) looks good. At least via WMDE it seems to be available.” --Marsupium (talk) 15:26, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
