Talk:Q1864251
Latest comment: 1 month ago by DaxServer in topic Best practices for linking a Wikipedia list to the Wikidata entities it contains?
Autodescription — list of claims for restitution for Nazi-looted art (Q1864251)
description: Wikimedia list article
- Useful links:
- View it! – Images depicting the item on Commons
- Report on constraint conformation of “list of claims for restitution for Nazi-looted art” claims and statements. Constraints report for items data
- See also
- This documentation is generated using
{{Item documentation}}.
Best practices for linking a Wikipedia list to the Wikidata entities it contains?
editWhat is the best solution for linking up information about people persecuted in the Holocaust?
This Wikipedia list article is linked to the Wikidata entities it contains using Depicts. Is there a better solution? Who should be involved in this discussion? Thank you.
Notified participants of WikiProject Victims of National Socialism LAP959 (talk) 03:15, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
- Interesting attempt, but what you have done on this item is definitely not the way! A list article on Wikidata is generally left as is with at best a "is a list of". The ever-growing list should become a list of "listeria lists" to use for internal tracking here on Wikidata. The problem with trying to rebuild Wikipedia list articles on Wikidata is that you can't make items out of text strings, so you will never be able to stack the whole list into one item and in my opinion you should not try. Each line in the list needs it's own item, beecause per case, the defendants, paintings and juresdiction can be part of it. You can also make listeria lists of lists, seee for example my Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Hofstede de Groot WikiProject page, which is linked from the bottom of Cornelis Hofstede de Groot (Q757837). This page eexplains the various catalogs and links out to the painters as I slowly build a family of listeria lists accessible here: Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Hofstede de Groot catalogs. Each "listeria" list is built with Template:Wikidata list (Q19860885), a tool that also works in Wikipedia, but which is not allowed on mainspace, only in useerspace. When I create a list of paintings for Wikipedia, such as en:List of works by Artemisia Gentileschi, I will also create a similar on in my userspace to monitor via my watchlist here: en:User:Jane023/Paintings by Artemisia Gentileschi. Hope that helps! Jane023 (talk) 05:24, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, you are no doubt right about the issue with including the other information. Listeria sounds interesting though I have to admit I don't know enough about how to proceed with it. LAP959 (talk) 17:09, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
- So I gather you want to create some version of w:de:Liste von Restitutionsfällen within Wikidata (per Listeria or other tools). I think it would be best to model restitution cases within items for the artwork itself. significant event (P793) might be a suitable property for this. --Emu (talk) 23:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
- If I understand correctly, the suggestion is to add the significant event "claim for restitution of artwork" (Q107614552) to the artwork in question? (And to create the artwork in Wikidata where is does not already exist?) That works, I think. How to add the other information about the claimants/defendents etc so that it can be retrieved and analyzed properly? Thank you. LAP959 (talk) 17:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Would it work to do a "Sum of all Restitution cases" kind of project, starting from the event with its date, participants, venue, country, and object?
- Yes something like that is definitely needed! Sorry I forgot to watchlist this page, and as User:Multichill pointed out to me yesterday, having a discussion like this on a talk page of an item is really not the Wikidata way to bring a discussion to the attention of many users. So, yes a subpage under WD:SOAP would be good since paintings do seem to get the most media coverage, but we could put it as a subpage of WD:WikiProject Visual arts as well. I agree that a central page would be useful and as a member of the SOAP project working on Nazi looted art I can also say it would be very nice to build some kind of a working structure to track all of this stuff (looted art, seized company offices, homes & other properties, etc. Looking at the English list article of this item I scrolled to the Netherlands and only found one case with the double-referenced sentence "In 2006, 202 artworks were returned to the Goudstikker family (out of 1250 pieces that were plundered)". The 202 paintings that were restituted got a lot of media coverage, but it was just paintings, while the gallery holding them was also looted, so no mention of that, or the castle that was also loaded with other paintings and furniture and extensive grounds with other items - no mention of that either. The 1250 number refers to identifiable paintings, so no mention of other looted objects that have yet to be specifically identified. This only refers to just one of many many restitution cases in the Netherlands started by many other survivors of victims the holocaust, so way more people than Goudstikker. That said, the English Wikipedia list article doesn't even link to the English Wikipedia page for 2006 Goudstikker restitution of 202 paintings (Q99770530). I hope this shows why a Wikipedia list article and/or its own item will not help centralize Wikidata efforts to gather such cases to enable group efforts.
Notified participants of WikiProject Visual arts for input where to put such a WikiProject page. Should it be its own project? A Visual arts subproject? A SOAP subproject? Thanks for reading. Jane023 (talk) 10:25, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the explanations. I think it should be its own project because visual arts is only one component which links to it but does not define it. Other objects can be involved and, in a wider context of events, Aryanizations, deportations, and other Holocaust related events. LAP959 (talk) 14:46, 25 June 2022 (UTC)