Property talk:P1082
Documentation
number of people inhabiting the place; number of people of subject
| Description | number of people inhabiting the place [ human population (Q33829) ] ; use point in time (P585) as qualifier; use preferred rank for the most recent total value. | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Represents | number of individuals (Q1613416), human population (Q33829) | ||||||||||||
| Data type | Quantity | ||||||||||||
| Template parameter | en:Template:Infobox French commune (population + population date) | ||||||||||||
| Domain | According to this template:
geographic features: places
According to statements in the property:
When possible, data should only be stored as statementsgeographic region (Q82794), territory (Q4835091), human-geographic territorial entity (Q15642541), human settlement (Q486972), continent (Q5107), archipelago (Q33837), island (Q23442), proposed administrative territorial entity (Q28864185), fictional location (Q3895768), group or class of organisms (Q21871294), ethnic group (Q41710), voting (Q189760) or ethnic group by residency (Q108788952) | ||||||||||||
| Allowed values | 0 ≤ 𝓧 ≤ 100,000,000,000 | ||||||||||||
| Allowed units | not applicable | ||||||||||||
| Preferred rank | data with the most recent point in time qualifier (Q22676757) | ||||||||||||
| Example | San Francisco (Q62) → 892,533 Agoo (Q40168) → 63,692 | ||||||||||||
| Source | http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL | ||||||||||||
| Robot and gadget jobs | DeltaBot does the following jobs: | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: same | no label (Q105089828) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: differences | no label (Q57337476) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P1082 (Q20990019) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: local yes, WD no | no label (Q32765317) | ||||||||||||
| See also | female population (P1539), male population (P1540), tabular population (P4179), number of households (P1538), urban population (P6343), rural population (P6344), literate population (P6499), population by native language (P12712) | ||||||||||||
| Lists |
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| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||
| Current uses |
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List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Range
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Type Q82794, Q4835091, Q15642541, Q486972, Q5107, Q33837, Q23442, Q28864185, Q3895768, Q21871294, Q41710, Q189760, Q108788952, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Conflicts with P27, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#integer, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Single value, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#single best value, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#mandatory qualifier, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#mandatory qualifier, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Entity types
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Scope, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1082#Units
TODO: add P1082 (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q6256 . FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P1082 [] } . FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q3024240 } . }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1082#Every country should have this property
P1082 with multiple values none of which is preferred (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT DISTINCT ?item { ?item wdt:P1082 []; p:P1082 ?statement; p:P1082 ?statement1 . FILTER( ?statement != ?statement1 ) . MINUS { ?item p:P1082/wikibase:rank wikibase:PreferredRank } . }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1082#No preferred value
(Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?population { ?item wdt:P1082 ?population. FILTER (?population > 1000000000). # TODO: add sandbox FILTER (?item NOT IN (wd:Q179997, wd:Q668, wd:Q2, wd:Q11188, wd:Q17566023, wd:Q5401, wd:Q862086, wd:Q148, wd:Q473750, wd:Q2483481, wd:Q27527)). FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q5107 }. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q2775969 }. }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1082#Population > 1000000000
Check uninhabited island (Q1065592) (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q1065592. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P1082 0 }. }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1082#Population need to be 0 on uninhabited island
see village (Q532) (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?population { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q532. ?item wdt:P1082 ?population. FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P17 wd:Q668 }. FILTER (?population > 1000000) } ORDER BY DESC(?population) LIMIT 100List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1082#Population > 1000000 on a village
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Discussion
editShouldn't this be a quantity, not a number?
editI think that this property has been created prematurely based on the newly-available "number" (dimensionless) datatype, and should instead wait for the "quantity" (with-dimension) datatype. The population is a number of things (in this case, persons), not just a number alone. James F. (talk) 00:45, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- If this is the "number" datatype and not the "quantity" datatype, then it's horribly misnamed. TCN7JM 00:59, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not sure entirely what you mean? See "Data type: <datatypes-type-number>" above (which no-doubt will get fixed soon to render as the intended message about it being a number). James F. (talk) 01:04, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Well, but I'm not sure that having a "people" dimension would be helpful... --Rschen7754 01:02, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps; however, the discussion last year about creating this was around making it as a quantity, not a number. James F. (talk) 01:03, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- This property was created with the quantity datatype so I have no idea what this discussion here is about at all. Vogone talk 01:07, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- @Vogone: Per Lydia's e-mail, you can only create quantities without dimensions (which were called 'numbers' for a while, but not now?)… James F. (talk) 01:22, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Even if that's the case, the datatype remains the same. There won't be a separation between a dimension-less 'numbers' datatype and a dimension-supporting 'quantities' datatype. Vogone talk 01:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Are you sure about that? --Rschen7754 01:46, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Aye, this is what Lydia told me on IRC. TCN7JM 03:31, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Are you sure about that? --Rschen7754 01:46, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- Even if that's the case, the datatype remains the same. There won't be a separation between a dimension-less 'numbers' datatype and a dimension-supporting 'quantities' datatype. Vogone talk 01:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
- What dimension were you proposing? People? What is the SI definition of people?
- Number with dimension means that the number has a unit type and without it the number is meaning less. I can say the distance to there is 23 but until you know if that is metres or light-years that number is meaningless. Once you have that unit then you can convert into other units.
- Population does not need to have a unit to be meaningful so we can use a dimensionless number for it. Filceolaire (talk) 09:39, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Let's discuss it again, since dimensions are possible now. I propose that one can use human (Q5) or inhabitant (Q22947) as the main units. Also one can use additional variants for female population e.g., or number of households. So in these cases we won't need such qualifiers. --Infovarius (talk) 14:33, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
- There is a proposal for this at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Unsorted#proportion_of_population --- Jura 10:48, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
What is the standard in adding which year is a population specified?
editHi, I was wondering what is the qualifier to use to specify that this is the population for a said year. how about if it is not a year or a period. Also, are we just going to continuously add all population data on an item? or are we suppose to retain the 3 most recent? --Napoleon.tan (talk) 07:17, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- Use point in time (P585). By the way, you can specify a more specific point in time than a year. I don't think we need to limit how many basic population statements are in an item. Historical population information is very useful. --Yair rand (talk) 07:30, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- point in time (P585) is the most important qualifier but you should also specify the publication date (P577) and the retrieved (P813) for the data source, and the reference URL (P854) if it is online.
Adjust for more generic use?
editWould it make sense to make the property more generic? Having something like "number of individuals" with more specific aliases it could be used to generally indicate quantity of humans (and even animals) and be used to specify the number of members of an organization (like a sports club), the number of employees of a company, the number of animals in a zoo and much more. With the process of adding new properties being very repelling, the property could be applied to a wide range of items right away. In addition, creating similar properties would be avoided.
Imagining statements on properties, it should be possible to display a particular alias (specified via a statement) on specific item instances instead of displaying the generic property name, e.g. for cities, still, "population" would be displayed instead of the generic property name.
- Random knowledge donator (talk) 10:13, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
±1
editIs there any way to get rid of this obnoxious, inaccurate addition to population values? Vanisaac (talk) 22:15, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- Workaround: enter +-0 --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 10:30, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. That should probably be documented here and on other properties where it shows up automatically despite the values entered. Vanisaac (talk) 06:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Help
editI think it would help to type in the correct informations if this properties could inform you when there were two identical "points in time" and values. Is this possible? --Impériale (talk) 00:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Historical populations of current borders
editSome sources list historical populations of regions that didn't match the entity's borders at the relevant time period. For example, all World Bank population data on Sudan (Q1049) are of the populations within its current borders, including statistics for years when it still included all of South Sudan (Q958). How should this kind of data be handled? I imagine we wouldn't want to default to assuming that current borders are intended (requiring that all population data be thrown out every time borders change a bit), but we wouldn't want to leave this extra potentially-useful data unused. Thoughts? --Yair rand (talk) 13:29, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
P459
editHi,
Can someone explain how determination method or standard (P459) should / is supposed to be used ?
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 14:49, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
- The item mentioned in the sample uses it: Q62#P1082. Or Q495#P1082. I removed it from the mandatory constraints as most items failed it. This didn't matter that much until we had Special:ConstraintReport. --- Jura 15:24, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Rural population and city population
editHi. Mudurnu (Q967446) is a district. I can add the value of the 1965 population. but, I can not add the cities and the rural population in 1965. What can we do to solve this problem?
Example: Mudurnu (Q967446). 1965 population 25813. (Rural population 22086, city population 3727)
--Sadrettin (talk) 17:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Population, point in time and reference
edit{{#property:P1082}} gives e.g. for Belo Horizonte 2,479,175, but I want population according to 2010 census (2,375,151) and source for that. What should I type to get it? --BokicaK (talk) 06:06, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Determination method values
editThe following query will display the values used for determination method or standard (P459).
SELECT ?determinemethod ?determinemethodLabel ?count WHERE {
{
SELECT ?determinemethod (COUNT(?determinemethod) AS ?count) WHERE {
?s p:P1082 ?popstatement .
?popstatement pq:P459 ?determinemethod .
}
GROUP BY ?determinemethod
}
SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" }
}
ORDER BY DESC(?count)
--Bamyers99 (talk) 23:43, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
female population (P1539) male population (P1540) as qualifiers?
editI just noticed this recent change. Are others in support of this? The way it is getting used (by the same user) can be seen at Tatarskoye Uraikino (Q18803429). --99of9 (talk) 00:11, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
- As you can see at Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations/P1082#Properties_statistics, there are about 15000 uses of each, all in a few countries. --99of9 (talk) 00:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
- Both models works, but I am not sure they easily can coexist. Our infoboxes at Wikipedia can be programmed to handle many possible ways to add a data. But make them adapt to all possible ways soon becomes tiresome. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 12:22, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Querying for the latest value
editSeems like all examples in the WDQS use wdt:P1082, which returns multiple values (all of history). What is the best way to get the latest one? E.g. "for a given list of WD ids, get the latest population value, and optionally, the year". Thanks! --Yurik (talk) 22:13, 9 October 2017 (UTC) Update, apparently the community has been using preferred to mark the most recent value, and there is no bot to maintain it. Currently there are over 10,000 constraint violations. Bot guru needed :) --Yurik (talk) 23:37, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Yurik: There is a bot for this: PreferentialBot operated by Laboramus. But there are ways to get the latest data no matter what rank it has. But since I am not very good at WDQS, I cannot help you with that. This ListeriaBot-list helps me to find items with preferred rank set to an older date than the latest one. NB, it only looks into the set of pages I currently have interest in. (Two kinds of Swedish urban areas.) -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:19, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Add ethnic group (Q41710) to "type constraint" allowed values
editShouldn't instances of ethnic group (Q41710) be allowed as a value of population (P1082)?--Malore (talk) 16:35, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
- +1 . Conny (talk) 20:21, 4 May 2018 (UTC).
"rural" vs. "urban" populations in census data
editThe Census of India dataset on districts offers not just total population, but also the number of people in the "urban" area of the district versus the number of people in the "rural" area of the district. Each figure is further subdivided into male and female populations.
Is there existing practice on how to model the "urban" and "rural" subsets of the population number for the district? (In addition for recording the total, of course.) Asaf Bartov (talk) 17:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- (This was also asked above: #Rural_population_and_city_population.) This is one part of a pretty general problem of how to model demographic data of components of a population: How many people within an area are of a particular ethnic group or religious group or legal status or economic status, how many speak a certain language, how many people of a certain age, how many are homeless or live in particular types of areas, etc. (Gender breakdown was managed by the creation of two specific properties, female population (P1539) and male population (P1540), which is a solution I'm not happy with.) I started a thread several years ago about this at Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2014/02#Complex_demographics. The problem does not appear to have been solved. --Yair rand (talk) 03:01, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for that context. Too bad. I guess applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) is the most reasonable way to express it now? I.e. have multiple values for Population at a given point in time, one being unqualified (total), and others having applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) with rural area (Q175185) or... hmm, is there an item for "urban" as a form of inhabitation? I don't see one. Asaf Bartov (talk) 10:16, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- (More links: Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2017/12#Population_synthesis, Wikidata:Property_proposal/Number_by_nationality,_religion_and_gender, Wikidata:Property_proposal/subpopulation.) Ideally, I think we would have a property for tabular data sets of demographic data with a standardized format. Not sure whether using P518 is a good stopgap measure for the time being... --Yair rand (talk) 07:49, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for that context. Too bad. I guess applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) is the most reasonable way to express it now? I.e. have multiple values for Population at a given point in time, one being unqualified (total), and others having applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) with rural area (Q175185) or... hmm, is there an item for "urban" as a form of inhabitation? I don't see one. Asaf Bartov (talk) 10:16, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Prison populations
editI'd like to use P1082 to describe the number of incarcerated peoples held at a specific prison. Is it possible to have this added to the list of classes? Or is there a better alternative? Megs (talk) 22:02, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Megs: See prisoner count (P5630). --Yair rand (talk) 23:54, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- I totally missed it. Thanks, Yair rand! Megs (talk) 21:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Determination method as mandatory qualifier
editNot quite sure why that was removed (values are usually: census, estimate, etc.). It does seem basic information needed for population numbers. --- Jura 13:32, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Jura1: I think your argument above in #P459 is completely correct. Probably most statements fail to have a determination method or standard (P459) qualifier and probably many of the sources we use don't even give a determination method. (The database report says 581,205.) For now I've set constraint status (P2316) to suggestion constraint (Q62026391). Cheers, --Marsupium (talk) 05:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Use of "applies to part" as qualifier
editFollowing a note on my talk page by @Jeblad:, I was wondering if the qualifier should also be included as separator for the "single best value". It should probably work in some cases, so I don't mind adding it.
However, I'm not entirely convinced by some of the uses made of "applies to part". See [1].
(1) In general, I don't think we should have:
- "United States": "population" = 8,500,000 "applies to part" = "New York City"
- A few are similar to this.
(2) There is also:
- applies to part: whole (Q16868672)
- Supposedly that indicates the population is actually the one of the entity it was added to. I guess it works when other data is actually about some parts.
(3) Some seem to conflate different administrative layers, e.g. municipality (Q15284) and Ortsteil (Q253019) at Q502807#P1082. --- Jura 08:19, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
- There is no such thing as a “single best value”, it is only degrees of optimums given some set of available observable features. A “last observation”? What if that is a prediction from a previous observation? A “best observation”? What if the observation is for a subset of the population and the total is a prediction? Should the observation be an actual count? What if you can't count it? Which best value? Who decides which subset is the best for a specific observation? Some user at Wikidata? Some user at Wikipedia? Describe what is observed, when it is observed, and how it is observed – leave the interpretation to the client. (I would be a lot more concerned about determination method or standard (P459), that is pretty weird with a lot of things jumbled together. It should probably be census (Q4350743) for a lot of such items.) Jeblad (talk) 09:05, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
- I think users generally just want the most recent population data. This is why most items always used preferred rank for these. It doesn't preclude clients from doing other interpretations.
- And no, adding NYC data to the US item is not helpful. --- Jura 09:13, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Csangos
editCsangos are an ethnic group in Romania, part of Hungarian minority in this country. What should I put to repair Type constraint issue at Population property? This appears:
Entities using the population property should be instances of one of the following classes (or of one of their subclasses), but Csangos currently isn't:
territorial entity
state (polity)
island
statistical territorial entity
suburb
human settlement
continent
district
taxon
fictional city
...
The same problem appears at female form of label and male form of label. --Kunok Kipcsak (talk) 13:08, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Kun Kipcsak: ethnic group (Q41710) has been added last August as a valid type in subject type constraint (Q21503250) by @Самоа : (thank you). Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 16:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
- @VIGNERON: Thank you!--Kun Kipcsak (talk) 07:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Single best value
editI'm coming up with the following "potential issue" on the page "Norfolk" (Q23109)
"This property [i.e. population, P1082] should contain a single “best” value with the same determination method qualifier."
Is this true, where you have multiple entries for different points in time? Should it be:
"This property should contain a single “best” value with the same determination method and point in time qualifiers."
Many thanks
AndrewRT (talk) 12:48, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
- The idea is that it would have the most recent estimates (and possibly also the most recent census) as preferred values. This simplifies queries for recent data. This wont prevent you from entering (with normal rank) or querying more historic data. --- Jura 13:17, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
See here for a test I did with displaying Wikidata statements on Wikipedia. For the object Q189 it returns the second most recent population figure from the item and for the object Q773682 it returns both population figures. How can I make sure that only the most recent figure is returned? --Bjarki S (talk) 13:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Type constraint: voting; conflicts-with constraint: point in time
editI think that P1082 (population) can be added to an item about voting (election, referendum, etc., see. e.g., this and this) so that we can get useful information such as the proportion of eligible voters. And a voting item usually has P585 (point in time). So I have added voting (Q189760) to type constraint, and removed P585 (point in time) from conflicts-with constraint (added by Manu1400 on 5 May 2018). --Neo-Jay (talk) 05:28, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Add "applies to part" P518 to unique constraint
editThe qualifiers listed here for single-value constraint (Q19474404) and single-best-value constraint (Q52060874) are point in time (P585) and determination method or standard (P459). For Australian census data it's also necessary to add applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) to ensure uniqueness among population figures. Is it worth adding this to the constraints here, or is it not a widespread way of structuring things? Sam Wilson 00:51, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
Can I use GeoNames as source and also say that it was the INEGI user?
editOn e.g. http://www.geonames.org/8858100/san%20antonio%20tecomitl.html, if you click 'history' you can see that it was INEGI (an official Mexican institution) that uploaded the data. If this is true, it seems like a good source. But how would I tag the property on Wikidata as originating from INEGI? See Q6118383. --Ysangkok (talk) 15:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Age ranges given for population statistics in some countries?
editIn People's Republic of China (Q148), provinces often have detailed sub-population statistics, usually within age groups. For example, this translated English statement from Hunan (Q45761) province:
At the end of 2023, the province's population aged 0-14 (including under 15 years old) will be 11.434 million, and the population aged 15-59 (including under 60 years old) will be 39.642 million.[1]
I've tried to model this well, but not sure if it is correct, and also wondering what to do about all the various constraint violations. Is it best to handle "population details" always throu9gh qualifiers, in general? And we just need to add more|better qualifiers, or fix constaints? Thoughts? Thadguidry (talk) 03:34, 9 August 2024 (UTC)