User talk:Izno/Archive 1

Welcome to Wikidata, Izno!

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Best regards!

--Ymblanter (talk) 19:46, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Re: Autopatroller

You're welcome. Cheers. Wagino 20100516 (talk) 05:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Command & Conquer

Hi! OK, this is good so, the "Command & Conquer (videojáték)" is an redirect in huwiki to "Command & Conquer" article. --Joeyline (talk) 23:38, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

D'oh

Hmm. Maybe I should put one in each corner. ;)

And wow... an admin with three comments on his talk page. No one congratulated you? :( Well, let me be the first: CONGRATS! — PinkAmpers&^{(Je vous invite à me parler)} 00:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

And let me be the second: CONGRATS!! --Ricordisamoa 00:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks ye, gents. NBD. --Izno (talk) 01:14, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Psh, ye of frustrating others! --Izno (talk) 01:14, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Admin

In your opinion, for how long would a user need to be active on Wikidata before you would support an RFA? This isn't a request, I know I'm not experienced enough yet, I'm just wondering. Thanks, FrigidNinja 04:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

In case you ever feel the need to trout someone, I've created Template:Trout. FrigidNinja 04:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

:D --Izno (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

When that user can show both the appropriate desire and need. I would interpret that as a sustained interest in the community and a number of contributions which show that the toolset would make the community's life easier if you had them, respectively. A good track record elsewhere is good, too. In other words, it's not hard to get the tools here, but you need to both be ready for it and show that you are. --Izno (talk) 14:09, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Re: Request for pt.wp

Hi Izno, I saw your message. Now, there is only one category in ptwiki: pt:Categoria:Java_(linguagem_de_programação). The other category is empty now, and that could be deleted. Spent a good time! Jmvkrecords ⚜ Intra Talk 17:49, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I pinged Hahc after you since I know him a bit better, but it looks like an IP took care of the merge or something. Thanks for looking into it though. --Izno (talk) 19:39, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

sorry + pissed off

hi izno - sorry you made me pissed of wikidata by this[1] pls. note [2][3][4] best --2.206.0.14 18:04, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The notability policy is clear: No talk pages. Q8486702 covers the IW linking necessary for cross-project collaboration in the case of military history projects for example. --Izno (talk) 18:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

i've read the policy before - my opinion: generally its ok not to crosslink talk-pages. But there should be an exception for the communities which support wikipedia. To get around the world reaching all projecttalkpages of a certain subject area could be a service from wikidata to the communties. Don't expect the communities to do the work without giving a minimum service back to them. This was discussed in [5] and proposed at [6] I think Wikidata could be a bit more flexible at this point - the policy just rose about 2 weeks ago ;-) pls. fix it at this point. so long --2.206.0.52 06:02, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

There's a slippery slope there in that if we let one type be okay, then another type or set of people will want their pages added... so on.

In this then, the group you think exists or seems to exist is no more special than another. Additionally, interwiki links are in place for the primary pages; the WikiProjects Video games and Military history and so forth. You do not need a talk page link and can get around quite satisfactorily by using those. There is also a workaround using local interwiki links, which is up to the project pages on respective wikis of course.

Lastly, Wikidata is its own project. Assuming that we are here to give only to them and that Wikidata does not have its own kind of work would be wrong. Choosing not to respect the policies and guidelines that will be or are not set up is simply bad form. That is not to say that we will not take other projects' wishes into account, but that there are just some things that our community thinks should be within our scope and others which we don't, and that talk pages are pretty much exclusively not in-scope.

The fact you discussed it there or anywhere else not on this project does not matter. It is the opinion of this project that such links do not and should not exist. Your requests for me to act against that policy are not in keeping with being an administrator of this project, and I would suggest you pursue your change in policy elsewhere, at either WD:RFC or at WT:N. --Izno (talk) 21:24, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

On a side note, you can probably use a Lua module or JavaScript to get the links that you want. --Izno (talk) 21:29, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Dear Izno! Some overall thougths ... wikidata needs/is based upon the resources of wikipedia and develoment is payed by WMDE. (see page 16 [7] Communityfeedback will take in count wether WD mainly acts as Leecher/Datamining project. WD should be able to show up values which it gives to the people you are asking to do a lot of work here instead of doing it in their xx:WP versions. Internationality is a main feature of WD - so nobody here should wonder about requests to give service for international communities. Conny who is Admin here in WD and our WD projectcommunitysupporter in Germany has been involved in disccussions about this exception. In order to have a live example Q12099956 was a testcase and marked patrolled by Conny as you see in [8]. I hope that he will find the right place to discuss the policy change. Pls. think about Q3916099 an give this project chances which are nessasry for development. Wikidata should keep open to communties it depends on - pls. do not support closed shop ideas like "Wikidata is its own project" I understand that definging exeptions its not up to you nor to me - you acted based on actual policys and this is not to be blamed. Pls. take this discussion as a friendly and godwilling information. Best --2.206.0.40 05:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear Izno! I followed some of your discussions, decisions and arguments here. Pls. mention to operate a little more accommodating in this new project, because introducing wikidata can not be a oneway unilateral deal - i had some conversation[9] with User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) As you know and quoted by Lydia this project is in the very beginning. You should not fear slippery slopes - they can be helpful. Up to now this project did not have essential headwind/resistance - you should try to do everything to promote and continue the good collaboration with your collegues/authors in the international chapters. best --2.206.0.91 12:31, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree, it can't be one way. So telling me that you're not going to abide by our policy is how many ways? :) I think the way it is is fine now. As I said before, if it really must be the way you want it, then feel free to open an WD:RFC or WD:PC. Let me know how that works for you, given that I've already shown that there are ways around the not-problem that you have. --Izno (talk) 18:13, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear Izno! Some overall thougths ... wikidata needs/is based upon the resources of wikipedia and develoment is payed by WMDE. (see page 16 [10]

The former is not true. Wikipedia is only one beneficiary. Whether development is paid for by WMDE or otherwise is irrelevant.

Communityfeedback will take in count wether WD mainly acts as Leecher/Datamining project.

Huh?

WD should be able to show up values which it gives to the people you are asking to do a lot of work here instead of doing it in their xx:WP versions.

I agree, people will need to do some work here. Not as much as you think though; that's the point of Wikidata. If one person does work here, then all the Wikipedias (and soon, other Wikimedia projects!) will benefit! Then people can focus on things that are more important to them, like writing articles on Wikipedia or making courses at Wikiversity.

Conny who is Admin here in WD and our WD projectcommunitysupporter in Germany has been involved in disccussions about this exception. In order to have a live example Q12099956 was a testcase and marked patrolled by Conny as you see in [11]. I hope that he will find the right place to discuss the policy change.

That's nice. That's still not here. I think you and I are on the same page when I say that this is an international project. But to be an international project, people have to talk here, not on DE, not on EN, not on a project not yet supported, etc. The discussion(s) that you reference were not held here and were not accepted by the community here, and that includes many different persons and cultures that are not the same as there. What you think we should want or need is not what we think we should want or need, and until you accept that the community is different, you're not going to make much headway with me. :)

Wikidata should keep open to communties it depends on - pls. do not support closed shop ideas like "Wikidata is its own project"

I don't want to support closed shop any more than you, but it certainly isn't right to say "I think this should be an exception" based on discussion (as above) that wasn't even held with our community. If you really want it to be open, talk to us at WD:PC (or one of the language variants), and create a WD:RFC, don't create a test case which definitely falls outside of the policy/guidelines and then assume that you are right to do that that way!

Pls. take this discussion as a friendly and godwilling information.

Sure. I wouldn't have it any other way! :) --Izno (talk) 18:29, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Associated Wikidata item deleted. Language links removed

Why? Many Wiki users have a homepages with Language links, sample - User:Andreasmperu. Why not remove him Language links? You can? Vahram Mekhitarian (talk) 08:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

His language links are on his own page(s) at Wikipedia. You cannot make items here only about a user; see WD:N. --Izno (talk) 12:57, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Where You see in my own pages a language links to another user pages? In Your view point(WD:N), why not remove User:Andreasmperu Language links? You can? Or not?

I cannot remove throe links because those links are on his Wikipedia page, not in Wikidata. --Izno (talk) 15:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, of course, You right. But this way is powering our work. Sorry for the inconvenience. Vahram Mekhitarian (talk) 18:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Feedback

Hi Izno, today I left some feedback on the user page of Lydia Pintscher, asking her to forward it to an approprita place. As I just saw her last contribution is already three days old and she's not been very active in the last month, I may have posted it in vain there. Could you have a look and see if this can be useful somewhere else? I'd hate to have left feedback for nothing. Thanks for reading. Wikiklaas (talk) 21:15, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

re-add previously deleted claims?

don't get me wrong. I don't want to continue the war but your comment here looks like I should re-add the properties and propose an "is fictional"-property as soon as boolean properties are available? --Shisma (talk) 11:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

GFDL

According to [12] I hit accidentally enter, I wanted to write that the GFDL is one special thing. (Maybe special versions, but I'm not sure till now how to handle this.) Uhm.. what do you think about this?
Greetings, --#Reaper (talk) 23:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

The property instance of is meant for unique items. The fact that it has multiple versions means that it is a subclass of a software license. Though I'm not sure really how to deal with it either (I wasn't sure about my own edit). Maybe something for WD:PC. --Izno (talk) 00:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for my late answer. Yes, we should start a discussion about that. (Do you want to do this?) Currently I think that it will end in items for each language - that would be the easiest and most controlled way. This has already be done with all CC licenses and also with GPL (ok, I've done this with GPL) ;). But a discussion would be the best, at last to clarifier it. Best regards, --#Reaper (talk) 20:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Please undelete Wikidata:Requests for comment/Lables and descriptions in language variants

That redirect is useful, since the misspelled version was linked by the bot-delivered newsletter. I could recreate it myself, but I'd rather not edit war. Superm401 - Talk 08:49, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Bah, humbug. --Izno (talk) 13:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Gesamtbeschreibung der Kakteen

[13]: place of publication (P291) is Neudamm not Dębno, publisher (P123) is Julius Neumann not Neumann Verlag. --Succu (talk) 09:36, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Neudamm is listed as an alias for Debno in multiple different languages. Simply because the name of the city has changed does not mean that we need to create a different item with no links whatsoever.

As for Julius, I will re-add the item, though it looks like we should have a conversation about items without links for publishers etc. I know that they are accepted for things like genera... --Izno (talk) 16:15, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Scratch that. I will redelete the item, as again in the German Wikipedia the one company became the other. Until such time as there is a Wikipedia article on the one company, it is satisfactory to say that Verlag is the company that published it. --Izno (talk) 16:21, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

If I have to cite the book, it has to be done the following way: Karl Moritz Schumann: Gesamtbeschreibung der Kakteen (Monographia Cactacearum). 1st edition. Julius Neumann, Neudamm 1897−1899. You should restore these two items. --Succu (talk) 16:34, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that's a problem in this context simply due to the fact that those statements were never meant to be used as citations? You might consider taking this up on the project chat. I'm leaving them deleted but won't oppose another administrator or community discussion reverting my decision, so if you can convince someone else that they should be undeleted, feel free. --Izno (talk) 16:40, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Do you know Simple guidelines for sources? --Succu (talk) 16:50, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't see anything there which contradicts my thoughts on the point. The books task force page is also silent on the point. --Izno (talk) 17:10, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

RfD

Started brainstorming at User:Legoktm/RfD wishlist... Legoktm (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Administrator

Thanks for the suggestion. I've applied for administrator status. Best regards, Florn (talk) 17:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC on Wikidata's primary sorting property

You recently participated in a deletion discussion for P107 - main type (GND). The discussion has been closed, as it is clear that a resolution won't come from PfD, and an RfC has been opened on the matter at Wikidata:Requests for comment/Primary sorting property. You are invited to participate there. Please note that this is a mass delivered message, and that I will not see any replies you leave on this page.

Yours, Sven Manguard Wha? 18:23, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Q13533837

Please restore this item. It was part of the list "mayor of Altomünster" (Q13533649). This is according to WD:N a "cleary identifiable conceptual or material entity". A corresponding sitelink to a Wikipedia page is not mandatory. -- 79.168.56.35 10:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Do you restore that? -- 79.168.56.35 18:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I will confer with others. I have issue with the fact that the claims you are making are incorrect. The items which you are most often associated are not "mayor of Altomunster" (or other) but "list of mayors of Altomunster". That is a problem to me. --Izno (talk) 21:44, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

So it is done in Q1836986 (Bishop of Aberdeen), Q2746377 (Prime-Minister of Flanders), Q3272746 (President of Castile-La Mancha), Q6594720 (President of the Balearic Islands Parliament) .... and in probably a few hundred cases more. "List of office held" and "office held" are usually treated synonymous.

Besides that, this is not a question a single person should decide alone by deletion.

Further deletion is not appropriate, if you could have easily created a claim "mayor of Altomünster". Especially not, if deleting destroys a complete set of datasets Special:WhatLinksHere/Q13533649. -- 79.168.56.35 09:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Izno. You have new messages at King jakob c 2's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Jakob ^{Scream about} _{the things I've broken} 11:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Izno. You have new messages at King jakob c 2's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 14:52, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Reply

Hello, Izno. You have new messages at Nizil Shah's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Descriptions of templates

Thank you for answer. PMG (talk) 18:27, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Merging

I am mot merging items, just tagging items to delete, but thanks for your help. --LadyInGrey (talk) 01:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Reply

Hi,

Just in case you missed the last note, I replied to you here. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 10:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Also, would you mind leaving me a message on my talk page when you create the nomination page? Thanks, --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 21:47, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Swedish properties

If you have the time: Wikidata:Property_proposal/Place#Sweden. best wishes. --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Partly located

RE: This.

On LARGE problem with P131 is that it indicates inhertance of properties. Lets say that somebody lives in Stockholm, Stockholm is partly located in 12 Municipalities. But a person only lives in one municipality, never inte 12. You cannot say that these 12 municipalities are located in Stockholm, since only one municipality is totally located inside Stockholm. (And it's not Stockholm Municipality.)

And Stockholm is at the same time located in 2 Provinces. Every municipality can be located in more than one Province. Even one single real estate can be located in more than one Province. It's even possible to say that the Province of Gotland is located in the County of Gotland, and Gotland County is located inside Gotland Province. You will have a loop you never will leave. P131 is a hell for nations with a complex administrative division.

Administrative division does not always look like an old family tree, where my grandmother is mother of my mother. With administrative inhertance, I can prove that Stockholm is located in Oslo Metropolitan area. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 15:49, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

But "partly in" doesn't solve that problem. Regardless of whether I say Stockholm partly in X municipality or 'in' municipality (and I think the presence of multiple different claims with the same qualifiers infers that it is in more than one at a particular time), the person living in the part of Stockholm that is in that municipality still doesn't have a claim that will locate him or her in the correct part of the region without making a claim on his location via exact coordinate as well as making the claim that Stockholm encompasses that coordinate. --Izno (talk) 16:10, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

We need a property that indicates that inheritance is "not allowed". Many sources does not tell in detail where somebody lives/lived, in which Province for example. And we do not always know the coordinates. If Stockholm is "partly located in Södermanland Province" or "partly located in Stockholm Municipality" we can from that indicate that the properties of "Södermanland Province" and "Stockholm Municipality" cannot be inherited. My grandfather was born in "Maria, Stockholm", that was located inside both "Stockholm City" and "Södermanland Province" by then. ("Stockholm Municipality" did not exist then.) "Maria, Stockholm" was completly inside both Stocholm City and Södermanland Province, therefor, both have to be added since inheritance cannot be allowed between "Stockholm City" and "Södermanland Province". Somebody proposed that postal adress-areas should be used in such cases. Well, how they looked in 1894, nobody knows (My grandfather was born in 1894), and information about modern postal addresses are also missing since they are protected by copyright and are changed randomly. And in 1894, Stockholm City was not located in Stockholm County, but that is another problem. If somebody was born as a Jewish people (Q7325) in Stocholm in 1894, any record of where in Stockholm was never made, all we will know is "somewhere in Stockholm", Uppland or Södermanland Province. -- Lavallen^talk(block) 16:54, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Reminder! -- Lavallen (talk) 07:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

P288 (P288)

When will the property gets deleted finally? What do you mean by "I'll see about bugging someone to make the switch"? As far as I see you're administrator, so you should be able to delete the property, not? --Nightwish62 (talk) 10:58, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I would like to see the property deprecated prior to deletion. As the property was used both for the purpose of 279 and 31, that means it may need to be done by hand. --Izno (talk) 12:08, 6 September 2013 (UTC) 12:06, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Waiting till all statements was moved to 31/279? Why that? Wasn't it you who told me once, that already existing statements doesn't got lost, when the property behind it was deleted? --Nightwish62 (talk) 15:08, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I may have said that. I don't think I did though. Even so, I can delete it and see what happens. Yay wikis! :D --Izno (talk) 23:06, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Naval ships

Please see Talk:Q3114762.--Pere prlpz (talk) 10:54, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Do not move redirects please

Hello, regarding an edit you made on MNC, I don't know if you're aware of the following topic: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/A_need_for_a_resolution_regarding_article_moves_and_redirects#new_Proposal_zero. There it was decided to allow redirect links, so please don't remove them anymore. They provide valuable links between different languages. Thanks, Midas02 (talk) 21:09, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Only when it is technically possible—when the devs actually implement linking to redirects. Right now what happens is a bug (or perhaps an unintended feature). --Izno (talk) 21:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

In fact, I supported the proposal as the third user! --Izno (talk) 21:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Main Type (p107)

Adishatz (Hello),

actually p107 is used in occitan wikipedia to choose the correct infobox to display according Wikidata:Infoboxes task force.

If the p107 type is not present all the infobox parts are showned, these way of doing use more computer time.

I will change this immediatly when an useful replacement system will be defined.

Boulaur (talk) 17:29, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Enjoy!

you were big fan of removing P107, so enjoy [14] Best Amir (talk) 07:12, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Bump, partly located

In Wikidata:Property proposal/Unsorted # partly is in the administrative unit, User:Filceolaire came with a very interesting idea. Please give me your input! -- Lavallen (talk) 17:19, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikidata:Requests for comment/Restructuring of the "minor" user rights

I added Proposal 10. That is abusefilter-log-private (not Abusefilter-view-private) for rollbackers.--GZWDer (talk) 04:05, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Commons category (P373)

Please, do not remove Commons category (P373) from items. This property is used by template Commonscat in some wikis. JAn Dudík (talk) 08:11, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Inheritance of P17

concerning [15]

If you think that the property country (P17) gets inherited then please start first a discussion about removing the constraints at Property_talk:P131, Property_talk:P132 and Property_talk:P150. --Pasleim (talk) 11:54, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Properties for Deletion request

Hi there. Thanks for stopping by PfD. It desperately needs people willing to voice opinions. In the future though, please use {{Vk}} and {{Vd}} when participating. "Oppose" can be ambiguous as it could mean "Oppose the deletion" (i.e. keep) or "Oppose the property" (i.e. delete). Obviously I'm able to tell what you mean from your commentary, but it always helps when I don't have to guess what people mean during closings. Thanks, Sven Manguard Wha? 20:46, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, drp. Makes sense. --Izno (talk) 22:31, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

handedness

Thanks for your comment on my talk page.

Having three different properties for handedness means a query or infobox needs to guess which property has been used. Using the same property for handedness in all cases, with a qualifier to indicate which type of 'handedness' applies, means that a general query will pick up all these cases while still allowing specific queries related to specific sports. That is why I voted 'delete'. Filceolaire (talk) 09:34, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Linking Wikipedia main space to Wikimedia Commons Category

Hi, I have read and I think I understand the discussion. But what can I link to if there is no Gallery for a topic on Commons, just a category ? E.g. Fred Smith, an important Person, has a page on many languages in Wikipedia. He also has a Category on Commons with many images, but no Gallery. It makes sense to link the Commons Category and all the Wikipedia language articles using Wikidata, so people can navigate between them, which is what I did. The only alternatives are to create an empty Gallery in Commons, which id of no use, or add the links manually to the Commons Category which was done previously but is very unreliable as it does not automatically get updated when a new language article is created. So - what to do ? Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 07:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

KrattBot

Hoi, can you unblock User:KrattBot? --WikedKentaur (talk) 16:41, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

@WikedKentaur: Did you stop the bot and will you work to fix the error? --Izno (talk) 16:44, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

labellister question

Is there any way for the labellister gadget to be a bit more like the normal interface? It's really painful when I need to edit multiple languages to go through the three or four step process to edit each language's labels/descriptions. --Izno (talk) 22:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'll see for that. I answer you when I find a way to develop that. --Jitrixis (talk) 22:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I may be know how to do, I'll see for this holliday after the december 23rd. --Jitrixis (talk) 07:55, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

That would be great. I'll be on holiday too! :) --Izno (talk) 13:07, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Notification of Property RfD

Please notify the original proposer and creator when nominating a property for deletion in the future. This helps ensure a broader input on the decision. Thanks! Joshbaumgartner (talk) 03:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)