Property talk:P413

Active discussions

Documentation

position played on team / speciality
position or specialism of a player on a team, e.g. Small Forward
Representsposition (Q1781513)
Data typeItem
Template parameter"position" from en:Template:Infobox ice hockey player - [ Template:Infobox ice hockey player (Q5650114) ]
Domain
According to this template: person with occupation (P106) = subclasses of sportsperson
According to statements in the property:
human (Q5) and fictional human (Q15632617)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Allowed valuesinstances of position (Q1781513): defenceman, pitcher, goalie... (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
ExampleJoe Thornton (Q434899)centre (Q2583758)
Michael Rensing (Q151062)goalkeeper (Q201330)
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P413 (Q23909024)
Tracking: local yes, WD noCategory:Position played on team / speciality not in Wikidata, but available on Wikipedia (Q28867736)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses338,584
Search for values
Type “human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617): element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P413#type Q5, Q15632617, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Item “occupation (P106): Items with this property should also have “occupation (P106)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P413#Item P106, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Value type “position (Q1781513), sports discipline (Q2312410): This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value position (Q1781513), sports discipline (Q2312410) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P413#Value type Q1781513, Q2312410, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P413#Conflicts with P31, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Item “member of sports team (P54): Items with this property should also have “member of sports team (P54)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P413#Item P54, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Same value in P413 and in P106
(Help)
Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P413 ?a; wdt:P106 ?b. FILTER (?a = ?b) } ORDER BY ?item
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P413#Same value in P413 and in P106
This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

DiscussionEdit

Constraint « One of »Edit

The constraint enforced by « One of » is already covered by « Value type = "position (Q1781513)" », doen’t it ? And it’s way more maintainable. Jean-Fred (talk) 02:45, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

removed the "one of" constraint --Pasleim (talk) 08:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Other usesEdit

This property is also in use in cycling. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk • contribs) at 1 sep 2015 13:30 (UTC).

Then you also need to update the "one of" section, because otherwise you're creating constraint errors. Or you need to think about a new property for cycling. The description doesn't match it's use at the moment. Mbch331 (talk) 13:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
This really creates a confusing situation in my opinion. There also seems to be no consensus about making the scope of this property larger. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 17:01, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I find it confusing too, since as far as I can tell it was created for sports like football, soccer, ice hockey etc. Those kinds of sports not for ALL sports. Mbch331 (talk) 18:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
@Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick: Could you please respond why this property needs to be used for cycling as well? It wasn't created for sports like cycling. Mbch331 (talk) 13:01, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Wikidata:Property proposal/Event #8. If you want, you can also create the property speciality, but I don't do the transfert. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 13:46, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
What am I meant to be finding on that page? Property was created based on this and the current use isn't according to the property request. The transfer can always be done by bots. But currently it is incorrectly used on cyclists. Mbch331 (talk) 15:06, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Bad link, this is the good. I ask a spécial property, three big user says me to use the P413, so I do it. It is also possible to create this property speciality. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 17:01, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the updated link. That explains a lot. Now somebody (and I wasn't thinking about me) has to add all items that are used for this property for cycling to the list of allowed values. Because just changing the description and label doesn't solve constraint violations. Mbch331 (talk) 18:51, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
You preconize to create a new property or not ? Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 08:36, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
A new property won't be created as a previous property has been rejected. However the current use violates the "One Of" constraint, because the QID's of the linked items (the specialities) aren't added to the "One Of" constraint and need to be added there. Mbch331 (talk) 17:41, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

This properties’ core concept position (Q1781513) needs some definition …Edit

… feel free to add proper instance of (P31) or subclass of (P279) claims to it. Right now I have no idea what to add there. Thanks, MisterSynergy (talk) 20:48, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

playing around with labelsEdit

Before this gets changed, can we have an idea of what is intended?
--- Jura 11:50, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

In which text "position played on team / speciality" is present with dash and exactly as in Quotes?
Everything is covered in Help page.
  1. Help:Label#Reflect_common_usage
  2. Help:Label#Labels_can_be_ambiguous
d1g (talk) 12:07, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Help:Label applies to items, not properties. Is there a need to expand the domain of P413 beyond sports?
--- Jura 12:13, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Still, I never seen that writing with "/" is a common practice both in items and in properties: we should pick one of two options (even by coin toss) and have other as alias.
  • Help:Label - I think it should apply to Entities, not just items.
  • P413 beyond sports - There is no need at the moment, but label can be ambiguous because this is how newspapers are writing texts.
d1g (talk) 12:26, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm sure that a better label can be found, but you can't apply Help:Label to properties.
Actually, there used to be a Wikibase feature that prevented that two properties had the same label. Not sure where it went.
The label needs to make it clear that this applies to sports only, otherwise people use it for anything.
--- Jura 14:17, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
We need a better mechanism to warn about "rare" or "new" or "different" properties; labels can be under-maintained in some languages.
"this applies to sports only, otherwise people use it for anything" - this argument can be applied for items too...
Problem with labels like "position played on team / speciality" is that they are extremely rare (or never appear in real text)
This might be important or not when using WD labels. d1g (talk) 15:23, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Statement or Qualifier?Edit

Should this property not be a qualifier of member of sports team (P54) and sport (P641), and constrained to be a qualifier?

A person who is the member of two different teams, or who plays two different sports, with two different positions, will not benefit from P413 as statements - which 413 goes with which 54/641? Even for a person with a single team membership, it's counterintuitive to find some information about their team membership as a qualifier of P54 and other information as a statement. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Return to "P413" page.