User talk:Epìdosis/Archive/2024

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Recensioni

Ciao, avrei una domanda riguardo i contributi di questo utente, giusto per capire se è "normale" quello che fa o no: io, quando devo aggiornare qualche dato, in questo caso i punteggi delle recensioni o gli incassi, semplicemente cambio il dato aggiornando anche la data e la data di consultazione della fonte, è sbagliato? Perché questo utente invece cancella tutto e poi inserisce i dati aggiornati, ma il problema è che a volte lo fa anche senza motivo, ad esempio qui (puoi vedere tu stesso dalla cronologia) ha cancellato tutto solo per cambiare la data, cancellando tra l'altro la data di consultazione della fonte, insomma il dato delle recensioni non era cambiato ma lui ha cancellato tutto lo stesso, e va avanti da mesi, facendo sei/sette edit al posto di uno solo per aggiornare, se lo facessi su it.wiki mi direbbero che sto intasando la cronologia, ma qui non so bene come funzioni, per cui chiedo a te, e buon anno :)--Luke Stark 96 (talk) 01:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

@Luke Stark 96: direi che il problema è dovuto principalmente all'attuale funzionamento di QuickStatements (abbreviato QS; cfr. Help:QuickStatements), che è di gran lunga il principale strumento di modifica massiva dei dati di Wikidata; purtroppo QS non permette di modificare i qualificatori e/o i riferimenti di una dichiarazione esistente, ma per ottenere tale risultato bisogna rimuovere l'intera dichiarazione e poi riaggiungerla (e QS, nell'aggiungere una dichiarazione, aggiunge prima il valore principale, poi un qualificatore per volta, poi un riferimento per volta); ovviamente modificando manualmente (o con un bot, che però dev'essere appositamente programmato) si potrebbe, con una sola modifica, intervenire sia sul valore della dichiarazione sia su uno o più qualificatori sia su uno o più riferimenti, e questo renderebbe le cronologie decisamente più facili da consultare, sono perfettamente d'accordo. Tuttavia, di fatto l'utente sta agendo in modo corretto, anche se perfettibile a causa di uno strumento limitato; l'unico punto criticabile, come osservi, è l'assenza di retrieved (P813) nei riferimenti ... per quanto si possa in questo caso inferire dal qualificatore point in time (P585) della dichiarazione, concordo con te che sia comunque meglio mettere sempre anche la data di consultazione (e ciò peraltro non comporterebbe un'ulteriore modifica, poiché i riferimenti vengono aggiunti ciascuno in un'unica modifica), quindi sì, ti direi di consigliare all'utente di copiare le date di consultazione dal qualificatore P585 anche al riferimento P813. Poi in linea teorica si potrebbe, per dire, aggiornare massivamente soltanto i dati che sono effettivamente cambiati (7 modifiche per mostrare che a distanza di un mese lo stesso film ha lo stesso score sono un po' sprecate, vero), tuttavia ciò implica fare una query sui dati esistenti e un confronto coi dati che si vanno ad aggiungere, il che può essere (specie su grandi moli di dati) un po' macchinoso ... si può suggerire all'utente, ma non direi che sia in senso stretto sbagliato intervenire massivamente su tutti i dati periodicamente, anche se ciò comporta in alcuni casi dei gruppi di modifiche di scarsa utilità come questi. Buon anno anche a te! --Epìdosis 07:27, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah quindi la "colpa" è dello strumento che usa.... ok volevo giusto assicurarmi che il suo operato fosse giusto, ma io non sbaglio se invece aggiorno semplicemente cambiando il dato e aggiornando le date? (facendo un solo edit)--Luke Stark 96 (talk) 11:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

@Luke Stark 96: no, tu certamente non sbagli! --Epìdosis 18:42, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

D'accordo, volevo esserne sicuro, grazie e buona serata :)--Luke Stark 96 (talk) 19:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

temporary_batch_1704307986391

Hello, Epìdosis. In this batch, you have removed "researcher" as an occupation. I think those were valid statements. May I know the reason for removing the statements? — Haseeb (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Haseeb55: the batch 1704307986391 is based on https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?psid=24099341&al_commands=-P106%3AQ1650915, which finds to-be-removed statements occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) according to the following criteria: 1) the item already has occupation (P106)writer (Q36180) (and presently researcher (Q1650915)subclass of (P279)university teacher (Q1622272)) and 2) the statement occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) either has no reference or it is only referenced through imported from Wikimedia project (P143). In these cases I think that occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) is just redundant (since occupation (P106)university teacher (Q1622272) is already present, and no actual reference justifies the additional presence of occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) itself); however, if it is manually readded with a reference (different from imported from Wikimedia project (P143)), it won't be removed again through the aforementioned mechanism. --Epìdosis 09:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Andrea Ventura

Good morning Epìdosis, I've created Andrea Ventura (Q124109781): Italian artist (1968- ). VIAF:309838442 seems to mix with an other (unknown) person. SBN CFIV199346: Ventura, Andrea <1967- >. Kolja21 (talk) 05:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: I have cleaned all "Andrea Ventura" in SBN as much as possible; for Andrea Ventura <1967- > (https://opac.sbn.it/nome/CFIV199346) there were no other data, and no references at all, so I deleted it; Andrea Ventura <1968- > existed already (https://opac.sbn.it/nome/RL1V003793) and I moved to it all the publications he claims on his website. A note on Andrea Ventura (Q124108270): Italian particle physicist (1975-): he was professor at the University of Florence (as stated in SBN and https://lasinodoroedizioni.it/autore/andrea-ventura/), never apparently at the University of Salento (as stated instead in https://d-nb.info/gnd/1155540778); probably this imprecision is due to a confusion with the younger Andrea Ventura (Q56488808): Italian particle physicist (1975-). Thanks as always for this report! --Epìdosis 09:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

There was a wrong ORCID import (physicist: same name, same university). I've created a new GND for the physicist. GND 1155540778 was created for Andrea Ventura, economist at the University of Salento, see Are There Differences in Boards of Directors Between Banks and Non-financial Firms? The professor at the University of Florence might be an other person. --Kolja21 (talk) 17:30, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: I think effectively the author of https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-70007-6_5 is the physicist (this http://www.dhitech.it/inerrantliveshow/ confirms that he has been involved in the use of physics for business) ... although the department indicated is strange (and probably wrong) since the physicist is obviously affiliated to the Department of Maths and Physics. Anyway, I remove https://d-nb.info/gnd/1155540778 from Andrea Ventura (Q124108270). --Epìdosis 17:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I will look into it but since Q124108270 has been created for Andrea Ventura with GND 1155540778 and the Dialnet ID 5576727 the 1955 economist should get a separate item. --Kolja21 (talk) 17:48, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: OK, I redirected it to Andrea Ventura (Q56488808) and I created Andrea Ventura (Q124130078) for the economist. --Epìdosis 17:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks but you're a bit to fast. Shouldn't we first find a proof that the GND/Dialnet economist is a the physicist? If I look at Q124130078#P1317 the new item is still a conflation. Let's keep the original Q124108270 using "said to be the same as" and then we work our way forward step by step. --Kolja21 (talk) 18:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: the proof is https://iris.unisalento.it/handle/11587/418506 where the publication is clearly connected to Andrea Ventura physicist at the University of Salento; if the Andrea Ventura author of the publication was a homonym, there wouldn't be the connection. Checking the official list of publications of the physicist Andrea Ventura in the open-access repository of his university (https://iris.unisalento.it/cris/rp/rp02109), https://iris.unisalento.it/handle/11587/418506 (= https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-70007-6_5) is one of them. --Epìdosis 18:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: Finally I created the two coauthors, Vittorio Boscia (Q124130174) and Valeria Stefanelli (Q124130182); they are OK in SBN. --Epìdosis 18:28, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll create some of the missing GNDs. --Kolja21 (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Split

Ciao, gli split sono accettati su Wikidata? Volevo creare un elemento su ciò ma non ero sicuro se è ammissibile qui su Wikidata. Àncilu (talk) 09:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

@Àncilu: certamente, lo puoi creare con instance of (P31)split album (Q368281). --Epìdosis 10:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Grazie, l'ho creato, Q124262209. Con gli album di Trhä però avrei un dubbio... i titoli sono scritti in una lingua che l'autore ha inventato, quindi come potrei riempire la proprietà titolo? Àncilu (talk) 16:08, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Àncilu: puoi usare per title (P1476) il codice "und" (lingua imprecisata), mi pare la scelta migliore. --Epìdosis 16:10, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

MnM PIAC

Ciao Epìdosis, potresti deattivare il catalogo PIAC authors? L'URL risolta aver cambiato da http://piac.urbe.it/ verso https://catalogo.piac.it/. Purtroppo, gli ID non sono statti riusato; ad esempio Jill Diana Harries (Q34004342) sembra di avere avuto l'ID 17837 mentre adesso a 22186. @Bargioni: che l'ha importato. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 14:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban: sì, è un peccato che tutti gli ID siano da buttare; probabilmente in febbraio importiamo un nuovo catalogo e ricominciamo daccapo ... grazie per la segnalazione, ho disattivato il catalogo. --Epìdosis 15:10, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Consiste di (P527) con varie sottogruppi

Ciao! Avendo finito di importare i discorsi di Dione, mi è venuta una interrogazione su comme procedire per collegarli all elemento generale dei Speeches (Q87746189). Il problema è chi ci sono varie "sottogruppi", ad esempio On kingship (Q124387454), che consista nei quatro primi discorsi. Per il momento, quando tale sottogruppo esisteva, ho collegato lui a Q87746189, mentre i discorsi sono collegati al sottogruppo, ma forze sarebbe meglio collegare tutti i discorsi individuale a Speeches (Q87746189)? Non so se c'è una pratica migliore, l'esempio dei libri della Biblia mi è paruto molto confuso. Grazie! --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 20:20, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Ciao @Jahl de Vautban:! Innanzitutto grazie per aver importato tutti i discorsi di Dio Chrysostom (Q334457), mi pare un'ottima idea. Sì, la questione dell'uso di has part(s) (P527) non è facilissima; forse proporrei il seguente schema: Speeches (Q87746189) tramite has part(s) (P527) linka ai singoli discorsi 1-4 (ma non al sottogruppo On kingship (Q124387454) per non creare difformità); i singoli discorsi 1-4 tramite part of (P361) possono linkare sia a Speeches (Q87746189) sia al sottogruppo On kingship (Q124387454); il sottogruppo On kingship (Q124387454) tramite part of (P361) può linkare a Speeches (Q87746189). Che ne dici? --Epìdosis 20:42, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Ottimo, me ne occupo domani. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

it.wiki P8189

hello Epi,

Can you help with this. Thanks in advance. Geagea (talk) 11:46, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Geagea: thanks,  Done. --Epìdosis 12:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Susanne Lackner

Hi, are you sure about this edit? The entry was probably created for Media law enforcement without frontiers so it’s really about the lawyer not the philologist. --Emu (talk) 10:02, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, I find it highly unlikely that Susanne Lackner (Q121769760) is identical to Susanne Findenegg-Lackner. The DBC 87097968597137 link doesn’t fit at all either. I think the VIAF is just highly inflated. --Emu (talk) 10:05, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

@Emu: thanks for writing me; yes, PLWABN effectively belonged to Susanne Lackner (Q121769760): Austrian jurist, I restored it; and so the VIAF cluster is conflated, I marked it as such, and DBC is surely another person (removed); as for the identification of Susanne Findenegg-Lackner with Susanne Lackner (Q121769760): Austrian jurist, it is supported by BNF and I think it is not so unlikely (GND and BNF agree about Diss. phil. Nijwegen, 2002 - so she probably knows Dutch - and about the fact that she is a translator), I would keep it. --Epìdosis 12:05, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Merge request

Hello.

The Wikidata page of "Petr Janiš" (Q95392172) and the Wikidata page of "Petr Janiš" (Q95773157), are about the same Czech actor born im 1951, and need to be merged.

Yours sincerely, 31.200.16.100 15:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done --Epìdosis 20:15, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

K. Samos

Hi Epìdosis, any idea who this artist could be? Samo Koler (Q124433074): painter (1909-1988):

• K. Samos: Ausstellung dal 31 maggio al 10 giugno 1958. Galleria d'Arte La Maggiolina. Alessandria 1958

I didn't find him/her in AKL online. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: thanks to a hint by SBN I found a sure identification (also in AKL): Samo Koler (Q94491525): painter (1909-1988). Doing these difficult researchers is always very interesting, thanks! Good night, --Epìdosis 23:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Impressive. Thanks! --Kolja21 (talk) 23:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Domenico Gottardi

Hi Epìdosis, any idea who the 18th century author Domenico Gottardi (Q124538070) could be? Priest and/or historian? He is not mentioned in WBIS. Listed titles (GND):

• Compendio della vita di S. Rainaldo, prima vescovo di Vicenza poi arcivescovo di Ravenna (1789)
• Memorie storiche di S. Rainaldo Concoregio arcivescovo di Ravenna (1790)
• Daciana diaconessa (1792)

--Kolja21 (talk) 20:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: priest and historian; I found an entire death announce of 1794 with 5 pages of biography. --Epìdosis 21:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Perfect. I have updated GND 1157640575 accordingly. --Kolja21 (talk) 21:43, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

VIAF

Hi Epìdosis, DifoolBot has now run through all usable VIAF name authority files: CONOR.SI ID (P1280) did not yield must result and National Library Board Singapore ID (P3988) contains an old ID that you can't use to query VIAF, see this discussion: Property talk:P3988#2022 updates.

I'll update the bot code so it can run unsupervised through all IDs and to let it handle unusual cases like this (VIAF ID: no value) and this (no human, pseudonym). In some cases, it was also unnecessary conservative; if VIAF listed multiple IDs (for example this one for BNC) it would skip it. I think I'll wait till User:Difool/viaf already somewhere is mostly emptied and will then run it again. Difool (talk) 04:28, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Difool: perfect, I agree. Once most of the page is solved, it will be good to run the bot again on all cases, in order to see new problematic cases emerging. Epìdosis 09:44, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Pseudonym

How would you handle this? The writer and his pseudonym have both a page on BnF and as a result on VIAF too. Would you merge them or keep them separate, same as Mark Twain (Q110214222)? Difool (talk) 07:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Difool: pseudonyms are one of the most significant problems in the management of our items about humans. Some authority files have a cataloguing policy which prescribes using one ID for each humans, whilst others have a cataloguing policy according to which each name or pseudonym of the same person should have one separate ID. The usual policy on Wikidata, which is not so coherent, is the following: if at least one Wikimedia project has an article for both the human and one of his pseudonyms, the two items are kept separate and interlinked with said to be the same as (P460); in all other cases, only one item is kept (with all pseudonyms indicated through pseudonym (P742) and the multiple identifiers distinguished through subject named as (P1810)). I adopted this second option of the above case, merging the items. Epìdosis 09:50, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thanks, that's very clear. I'll use that - Difool (talk) 15:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Gestione delle property di Data in Pedia / Supporto realizzazione bot

Ciao Camillo, non ho ben chiaro se avendomi tu dato il benvenuto ufficiale sulla mia pagina utente sei pertanto divenuto il mio mentore ma, a prescindere da ciò, col fatto che sei l'autore dei video YouTube inerenti Data che ho visionato (peraltro, complimenti, molto chiari e d'aiuto), sarai sicuramente la persona giusta alla quale rivolgere la mia domanda: mi stavo chiedendo, ora che ho creato una property film ID per nientepopcorn (Q123434360) vorrei inserirlo nel paragrafo dei Collegamenti esterni in Pedia (credo che essendo un sito italiano debba risultare tra i link proposti) ma come viene gestita questo dato in Pedia? Sono giunto al Modulo:Collegamenti_esterni/Cinema ma è protetto e con il mio account non posso modificarlo. Forse devo chiedere qualche abilitazione? Oppure occorre avere raggiunto un certo numero di edit come mi è stato risposto in passato per una richiesta simile? In quest'ultimo caso sarei compromesso (vedasi la mia introduzione nella mia pagina utente)!
Dato che la domanda è più inerente Pedia che non Data, torno in topic con una seconda domanda: sto provando a scrivere uno script in Python per un bot col fine di popolare le property di alcuni portali. È la prima volta che mi affaccio a un intervento così tecnico e non mento nel dire che sono stato rimbalzato tra non so quante pagine di Help per installazioni e configurazioni varie. X_X Eventualmente mi dovessi intoppare, come è già successo numerose volte, posso contare sul tuo supporto (in italiano!!!) anziché impiegare giorni e giorni per venirne a capo?! --Wiccio (talk) 07:50, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Ciao @Wiccio:, grazie per le domande! Dunque, l'aggiunta di nuove proprietà al it:Template:Collegamenti esterni viene proposta in it:Discussioni template:Collegamenti esterni (non ci sono problemi riguardo al numero di edit), possibilmente segnalando la proposta anche al progetto competente (in questo caso it:Discussioni progetto:Cinema); se dopo es. una-due settimane c'è consenso per l'aggiunta, essa viene effettuata da un amministratore (che, in questo caso, modificherebbe appunto it:Modulo:COllegamenti esterni/Cinema), es. io che posso essere pingato e intervengo velocemente. Per quanto riguarda invece programmare bot su Wikidata, confesso di non averne mai programmato uno e di non esserne in grado; penso che la persona migliore per assisterti in italiano sia @Horcrux:, che da anni gestisce ottimamente @Botcrux:. Ti segnalo che, se intendi semplicemente aggiungere una serie di proprietà a degli elementi, è possibile che non ti sia strettamente necessario programmare un bot in Python, ma potrebbe bastarti usare il tool QuickStatements; su quello sono in grado di aiutarti personalmente, lo uso molto spesso. Per qualunque domanda sono sempre qui a tua disposizione! Buon wiki, --Epìdosis 09:42, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Ciao! Se dovesse servire una mano con python a portata di ping. --Horcrux (talk) 11:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Grazie mille, gentilissimi e disponibilissimi entrambi! Urrà, appena il lavoro e i bimbi mi permettono di dedicarci il dovuto tempo, torno a mettere in pratica quanto mi è stato consigliato! ;-) --Wiccio (talk) 18:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Ciao @Epìdosis. Infine ieri ho dato un'occhiata al tool Help:QuickStatements e ho provato a inserire 3 proprietà all'elemento Q5887360, una delle quali una volutamente doppia per testarne il funzionamento. Giustamente, come anche specificato nella pagina di help, per la proprietà già esistente non ha generato un doppione, ottimo! Però devo constatarne che non mi velocizza più di tanto l'inserimento né me lo semplifica. Attualmente, con la procedura d'inserimento manuale, io mi apro su un monitor un'area di lavoro precedentemente configurata e preparata sul mio browser Vivaldi mentre sull'altro monitor gestisco l'inserimento su Wikidata. QuickStatements mi "obbliga" a recarmi in ogni caso sulle singole homepage delle proprietà per cercare le stringhe da inserire sul relativo elemento Wikidata. Personalmente starei cercando una procedura più automatizzata che recuperasse da sé queste stringhe. Ti ringrazio tanto per il consiglio e il supporto offertomi ma credo che la realizzazione di un bot, benché al momento io non sappia ancora dire se concretamente fattibile, sia la via migliore da percorrere. In ogni caso sarà un entusiasmante obiettivo! :-) --Wiccio (talk) 07:47, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Duplicates

Hello Epì, First, Manually update list of Property talk:P8189/Duplicates not working (maybe only for me?).

secondly, we need some way to mark duplicates that are ok. For example zinc mine (Q20897929) and zinc mining (Q8072300) they are both ok with the J9U and LCCN. But there may already be such a marking that I don't know. Geagea (talk) 09:28, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Geagea:, sorry but for some reason I forgot to answer your message before! So, for the update of Property talk:P8189/Duplicates I think it's just an issue of Listeria which sometimes is slow in handling manual updates, but it should work anyway (I see the last update on 22 February). For marking cases of items in which the same identifier is effectively shared, the standard way to do it is using qualifier identifier shared with (P4070); using it is surely a better option than adding a great number of exception to constraint (P2303) to the property itself (as has been done e.g. for Library of Congress authority ID (P244) unfortunately); I edited National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189) so that items using qualifier P4070 are not marked as constraint violations and I also edited the Listeria in Property talk:P8189/Duplicates so that (from the next update) cases marked with P4070 will be excluded from the list. As always, ask me if you have other questions or doubts! Epìdosis 05:51, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. And I agree with you about exception to constraint (P2303) in Library of Congress authority ID (P244). Geagea (talk) 08:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

John Davies

Hi Epìdosis, OPAC SBN Davis, John <1774-1854> lists two titles of a namesake:

• John Davies (Q15989949): English cleric and academic (1679-1732)
• John Davis (Q25931190): English seaman, served in the East India Company (1774-1854)

--Kolja21 (talk) 00:17, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: thanks very much! I fixed them (although it's not yet visible) and I also tried to improve the overall situation of the very complex homonymity "John Davis" (see John Davis (Q124661956): American art historian (1961-) and John Davis (Q124661875): American political scientist (1962-)). --Epìdosis 10:15, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

VIAF e ISNI da BeWeB

Ciao Epi, grazie per il lavoro che stai faciendo pullendo le vari ISNI e VIAF! Tuttavia alcune avevano come fonti la loro utilisazione fra BeWeB (esempio) e penso che si dovrebbeno conservare finchè BeWeB vienne corretto (cio chè non so sè verra fatto). Forse tu o altri membri del GWMAB hanno contatto con loro? --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 13:08, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban: sì, abbiamo un contatto con BeWeb (tramite @Bargioni:) e siamo riusciti già a far correggere vari errori; quello che sto facendo al momento è segnalare i casi all'ISNI tramite la loro interfaccia di segnalazione errori, che nel complesso funziona bene; in circa 2-3 giorni lavorativi risolvono in modo quasi sempre soddisfacente i problemi segnalati, l'unico problema è che non mi notificano che il problema è stato risolto, quindi devo ripassare io a controllare. La speranza è che sistemare ISNI possa influenzare positivamente il VIAF, anche se sul VIAF continuiamo a non avere alcun controllo diretto. Sto togliendo gli ISNI errati di BeWeb perché più che altro aggiungono ulteriore confusione alla già intricatissima situazione di ISNI, che spesso fa conflazioni assurde; l'import da BeWeb fu fatto una tantum e non ne dovrebbero essere in programma altri; se tuttavia venisse fatto un altro import da BeWeb, ne dovrei venire a conoscenza in anticipo e chiederei in ogni caso di applicare la policy già usata con molto successo da Difool per gli import legati al VIAF (ossia raccogliere in una pagina di segnalazioni come User:Difool/viaf already somewhere l'ISNI che BeWeb attribuisce ad A ma già presenti in B), così che poi si potrebbe usare tale pagina per segnalare in blocco a BeWeb un bel gruppo di ISNI da correggere. Quindi appunto, la mia idea è che il rischio di reimport da BeWeb è basso e che, se ci sarà un reimport, si potrà adottare la strategia di "una pagina con lista dei casi problematici" per poi usare tale pagina per segnalre tutto a BeWeb stesso (più comodo che non mandare tante piccole segnalazioni su una miriade di ISNI errati, soprattutto per autori antichi). Cosa ne pensi? --Epìdosis 13:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC) P.S. Ho già fatto correggere almeno una ventina di ISNI di autori antichi e sto procedendo nei momenti liberi: segnalo a ISNI e poi ci torno su dopo tre o quattro giorni per vedere che abbiano corretto bene e per aggiungere i nuovi ISNI a Wikidata (per questo mi vedi aggiungere un po' di ISNI ad autori antichi e bizantini negli ultimi giorni)

Grazie per la segnalazione che i riporti a ISNI funzionano anche sensa risposta dalla loro parte; ne avevo segnalato alcune e effetivamente sono state risolte. Continuero a farli!

Per BeWeB il mio problema è chè nel frattempo di questo ipotetico reimport, le dati non vengono correte e tuto il nuostro lavoro di curazione viene perduto. Mi sembra che uno più esperto che me in SPARQL pottrebe migliora una query di questo genere aggiungendo l'etichetta delle dichiariazione sbagliata, l'etichetta della dichiarazione giusta e che l'esporto del tutto pottrebe essere mandato ogni periodo di tempo a definire a BeWeB per correzione. Al momento ci sono già una trentina di correzione possibile su nove properties differente (non avendo verificato che tutte sono da fare), mi pare già un bel po. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 16:21, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban: sì comprendo perfettamente e mi pare una preoccupazione molto giusta. Ho modificato un po' la query (https://w.wiki/9QVy) e @Bargioni: prova a inviarla a BeWeb, così che correggano i dati errati e poi (dopo averli corretti) rimuovano le dichiarazioni deprecate da Wikidata; spero che la mossa possa avere successo. Cerco di recuperare a mano gli ISNI che ho rimosso negli ultimi giorni e di mandarglieli un mail separata. Epìdosis 17:06, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Grazie per la query migliorata, sono riuscito a aggiungere anche la dichiarizione giusta: https://w.wiki/9QXY --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 18:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban: Abbiamo mandato a BeWeb sia la query con tutti gli errori (https://w.wiki/9QXY) sia, a parte, una lista degli ISNI errati (compresi quelli che avevo già rimosso). Epìdosis 19:14, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban: gli ISNI errati che avevo segnalato a parte sono stati corretti in BeWeb :) Epìdosis 11:59, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Ottimo, grazie! --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 12:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Q16105430

Hello Epì

I want to give the statement Moussa B. H. Youdim (Q16105430)date of birth (P569)28 February 1940 preferred rank according to the rational I have expressed in the item's talk page. Do we have some kind of Wikibase reason for deprecated rank (Q27949697) that says lets say: 'see talk page' or something like that. Geagea (talk) 22:51, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Geagea:, thanks for the question. In items we usually don't use statements, qualifiers or references referring to something in Wikidata outside the items themselves, because the structured data should be complete in themselves; I think that in this case reason for preferred rank (P7452)source considered most trustworthy (Q97479954) is a good option (I have added also another good source supporting 28/02/1940, which reinforces the statement). Bye! --Epìdosis 09:10, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that was helpful Geagea (talk) 11:33, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in the WQT UI requirements elicitation online workshop

Dear Epìdosis,

I hope you are doing well,

We are a group of researchers from King’s College London working on developing WQT (Wikidata Quality Toolkit), which will support a diverse set of editors in curating and validating Wikidata content.

We are inviting you to participate in an online workshop aimed at understanding the requirements for designing effective and easy-to-use user interfaces (UI) for three tools within WQT that can support the daily activities of Wikidata editors: recommending items to edit based on their personal preferences, finding items that need better references, and generating entity schemas automatically for better item quality.

The main activity during this workshop will be UI mockup sketching. To facilitate this, we encourage you to attend the workshop using a tablet or laptop with PowerPoint installed or any other drawing tools you prefer. This will allow for a more interactive and productive session as we delve into the UI mockup sketching activities.

Participation is completely voluntary. You should only take part if you want to and choosing not to take part will not disadvantage you in any way. However, your cooperation will be valuable for the WQT design. Please note that all data and responses collected during the workshop will be used solely for the purpose of improving the WQT and understanding editor requirements. We will analyze the results in an anonymized form, ensuring your privacy is protected. Personal information will be kept confidential and will be deleted once it has served its purpose in this research.

The online workshop, which will be held on April 5th, should take no more than 3 hours.

If you agree to participate in this workshop, please either contact me at kholoud.alghamdi@kcl.ac.uk or use this form to register your interest https://forms.office.com/e/9mrE8rXZVg Then, I will contact you with all the instructions for the workshop.

For more information about my project, please read this page: https://king-s-knowledge-graph-lab.github.io/WikidataQualityToolkit/

If you have further questions or require more information, don't hesitate to contact me at the email address mentioned above.

Thank you for considering taking part in this project.

Regards Kholoudsaa (talk) 14:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

SPARQL query for qualifiers

Ciao Epìdosis! I am trying to create a query that lists all items with a Rahlfs catalog (Q122984724), that is, all items with a catalog code (P528) statement (regardless of value) that has a qualifier catalog (P972)Rahlfs catalog (Q122984724). The query builder currently has no feature to search qualifiers. Do you know a magic trick? Many thanks in advance, Jonathan Groß (talk) 15:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jonathan Groß: sure, very easy:

#title:Manuscripts in Rahlfs catalogue
SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?n
WHERE {
  ?item p:P528 ?st .
  ?st ps:P528 ?n ; pq:P972 wd:Q122984724 .
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
}
ORDER BY ?n

Manuscripts in Rahlfs catalogue

Good evening, --Epìdosis 17:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Jonathan Groß (talk) 06:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Worldcat deletions

Dear Epidosis! I'm not sure these are correct edits 2, 3 etc. ... Why are they needed? Pallor (talk) 23:48, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Pallor:, thanks for the question. I have answered in Wikidata:Edit groups/QSv2/226272 to a similar one. --Epìdosis 08:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm... I don't know. Here, for example, it would have been particularly useful if the Worldcat ID had been preserved. There was no deception involved, it was the exact link that led to the WCE ID. If I didn't have the item on my watchlist, I would have lost a helpful connection right now.

I've been following the P7859 deletion discussion closely, and I see that there is absolutely no consensus on deleting these identifiers. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the P7859 data should remain until the new WorldCat Entities ID (P10832) IDs roll out, but the current workflow you're doing goes against that. Pallor (talk) 09:33, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

@Pallor: I agree that in P7859 deletion discussion there is no consensus to delete P7859 values until P10832 values are added to the items containing them; however, as I said, I think that: 1) we should not risk to import new P10832 on the basis of P7859 that could well have been wrong from the beginning (since they were imported on the basis of P214 values which have now been removed from the respective items) and 2) we can anyway import P10832 values directly from P214 and P244 values (example: since https://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n94087312/ redirects to https://id.oclc.org/worldcat/entity/E39PBJqQyJcTGCdfPq8FvfhWDq we can reach the first both through the value of P7859 lccn-n94087312 using formatter https://worldcat.org/identities/$1/ and through the value of P244 n94087312 using formatter https://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-$1/, the difference being that the correctness of the presence of P244 in the item is not problematic, whilst the value of P7859 is possibly risky because it derived from a P214 value already removed from the item). Summarizing: with the goal of adding precise values of P10832 to the items, I think it is important to avoid the risk of using wrong values of P7859 as sources, although this could also cut down a certain percentage of good IDs (but checking all of them manually would be impossible).

I have already expressed this reasoning in Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P7859 on 3 June 2023 and it didn't receive negative replies, so on this basis I sometimes run cleaning batches based on the same principle (i.e. if P7859 is imported on the basis of a P214 not present anymore in the item, it is risky to retain P7859 since it could have been originally wrong and thus lead to a wrong import of P10832). Of course these batches, in order to cut a few wrong P7859 values, surely cut also many good ones; if we judge, instead, that it is better keeping also a certain (difficult to calculate) percentage of wrong P7859 in order not to lose a probably higher percentage of P7859 values, I will of course not do future similar batches. It is just a metter of keeping a few wrong values with more good ones, or remove them all to be more careful. Epìdosis 10:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

The thing is, in this series of deletions, there were three entries where the link to the entity identifier was correct, but it was lost because you deleted P7859. Fortunately, I was able to restore the relationship because I had the affected items in my watchlist and I could retrieve them based on the previous relationship.

We have put a lot of effort into linking Hungarian persons to P10832 (currently most P10832s are still) in the Hungarian citizens element), I have personally linked hundreds of elements (e. g. [1]) and my impression is that 99% of the P7859 lccn links point to the correct location. The concern you reported is not real in practice, I can't substantiate it.

However, of the items on my watch list, there were more than 20% from which you deleted the P7859 link, even though the link pointed to the right place, making it difficult to establish a subsequent link with your editing. This makes it clear to me not to support any deletion mechanism for the time being, and to ask you not to delete property P7859 at all until there is community consensus to do so.

The proposed solution you have outlined is a significant detour, and since we know that a flawless database does not exist, if we include a third affected database, we essentially increase the possibility of errors.

Otherwise, regardless of the above, I support the deletion of P7859 once all affected elements have been assigned a P10832 identifier, but this should not be done along ad hoc decisions or flawed concepts, but based on a broader consensus.consensus. Pallor (talk) 21:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Pallor: OK, basically you think that among the removed values the percentage of good ones overwhelmingly outnumbered the percentage of wrong ones; it is difficult to measure it (as we agree), but I very much hope you are right; as I said, I ran this batch since the previous ones that I ran in June 2023 on the basis of the same reasoning (i.e. if P7859 is imported on the basis of a P214 not present anymore in the item, it is risky to retain P7859 since it could have been originally wrong and thus lead to a wrong import of P10832) didn't receive objections; on the basis of this objection, I will undo the 3 batches I recently ran (https://editgroups.toolforge.org/b/QSv2/226272/, https://editgroups.toolforge.org/b/QSv2/226273/, https://editgroups.toolforge.org/b/QSv2/226306/).

I'm not sure to understand the part "if we include a third affected database, we essentially increase the possibility of errors"; if possible, please have a look at Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P7859#New proposed plan for migration to P10832 and comment there. Thanks! Epìdosis 07:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't get it... We just discussed how these edits do more harm than good. Pallor (talk) 10:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@Pallor: this batch is correlated to 3 other batches which do the exact conversion of these values of P7859; the batches are https://quickstatements.toolforge.org/#/batch/226427, https://quickstatements.toolforge.org/#/batch/226428, https://quickstatements.toolforge.org/#/batch/226429 and are presently stuck in the queue; there is an exact correspondence, for each P7859 a new P10832 will be added (once all the batches are run). Epìdosis 10:28, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

BTW in the meanwhile I have also started the rollback of the 3 batches above through EditGroups, although the undo hasn't started yet, probably due to the queue of batches passing through QS (which in these days has often problems with batches stuck for hours). Epìdosis 10:30, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, that's fine (but you could have said) Pallor (talk) 10:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Currently I have started the undo of the three batches on 18 March, but it is still stuck, as reported to the programmer of EditGroups (cf. Topic:Y0hoi0xhy1w9hry9). --Epìdosis 20:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the notification! Pallor (talk) 00:38, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Researcher quickstatement deletion

Hi,Epìdosis. First of all thank you for your time editing and improving Wikidata. That said, I detected that you used temporary_batch_1710528583746 to revert several dozens of my edits assigning "researcher" as occupation for some people. Could you explain further why is the reason of these edit? Is there a particular criteria I'm missing? Thanks in advance. Kippelboy (talk) 13:27, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Kippelboy:, thanks for the question! I used periodically this query:

SELECT ?item
WHERE {
  ?item p:P106 ?st1 . ?st1 ps:P106 wd:Q1622272 .
  ?item p:P106 ?st2 . ?st2 ps:P106 wd:Q1650915 .
  MINUS { ?st2 ?pq ?pv . ?p wikibase:qualifier ?pq . }
  { MINUS { ?st2 prov:wasDerivedFrom ?ref2 } . } UNION
  { ?st2 prov:wasDerivedFrom ?ref, ?ref3 . ?ref pr:P143 [] . MINUS { ?ref3 pr:P854 ?url } . MINUS { ?ref3 pr:P248 ?s } }
}

Try it!

to detect the statements occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) to be removed. The criterium was: considering items which have a statement occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) with no references, or with only references not containing reference URL (P854) and/or stated in (P248) (i.e. probably references containing imported from Wikimedia project (P143)), if the item also has a statement occupation (P106)university teacher (Q1622272), then having occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) is redundant. The main motivation when I originally started to use this query was (if I remember correctly) that indirectly university teacher (Q1622272) was subclass of (P279) of researcher (Q1650915); however, this has probably changed at some point in time (checking which link in the chain has been changed is very difficult, I have tried in the last 30 minutes without finding it), so it is not true anymore. The other reason, still valid, is that occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) is too much widespread (by far the most common value of occupation (P106), with 1.95M occurrences as of now: Special:Search/haswbstatement:P106=Q1650915) and in most cases without serious references and often in a far too generic way, typically as a placeholder-value for occupation (P106) in newly-bot-created items about researchers with ORCID iD (P496); so, when the item has other more specific occupation (P106) values, usually researcher (Q1650915) tends to be removed also manually in order to make the whole list of occupations more readable.

Anyway, since the first reason seems not valid anymore, I have removed from my to-do-list the criterium "the item also has a statement occupation (P106)university teacher (Q1622272)" and I will use only the criterium "the item also has a statement occupation (P106)value where value is a direct or indirect subclass of (P279) of university teacher (Q1622272)" (see direct and indirect 1st grade), in order to be sure to remove only surely redundant occupation (P106)researcher (Q1650915) statements in the future. --Epìdosis 15:58, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Mike Danson

Hello Epì, see the two items:

• Michael Danson (Q90249693) --> (VIAF: 24762436)
• Michael Danson (Q112482860) --> (VIAF: 308693270)

Looking at the publications in the VIAF, some of them are the same, for example: "Divided scotland? the nature,..", "Employability and local labour markets", "Information gaps in the local labour market", "Redundancy and recession : restructuring the regions?" etc. Seems they are the same person but they have different BnF id, BIBSYS id. What do you think? Geagea (talk) 08:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Geagea: checked, same person;  merged. Epìdosis 09:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks.

another weird issue. Currently there are 695,000 links to P8189 but it was more than 816,000 before. How can I check what's happened here? Geagea (talk) 07:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Geagea: very weird! I have checked the number of main statements and references containing P8189 and I notice no strange decrease between 6 and 21 March (we don't have more updated data unfortunately); https://wdrc.toolforge.org/ would be the best tool for checking, but it lags 5 months so it's presently useless; in my watchlist I haven't noticed massive removals of P8189; my provisorial conclusion is that maybe Special:WhatLinksHere is strangely omitting something, but I would like to see the next updates of the number of main statements and references to be sure. --Epìdosis 08:57, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm checking now this query (I'm sending update every month to the National Library of Israel) and it's seems to be ok. Probably just problem with the counting in the link I'v provided. Thanks. Geagea (talk) 09:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

translated work

I have been starting work on translated work (Q125309905) items, for which I had to create the new Q-value. I am running into multiple issues, because Wikidata does not have a setup to deal with these items.

These are translated texts which are works in their own right, having been published in multiple editions and various volumes. An example is Oedipus the King (Q125309653), a translated work that was first published in 1865, and has since been published many times. The same would apply to Storr's Greek text or Dindorf's.

The big problem is that there is no property to indicate the original work from which the translated work was translated. We can't use edition or translation of (P629) because (a) that property implies the data item is an edition, (b) requires that the listed item have the inverse property has edition or translation (P747) (which implies the same thing), and (c) it conflicts with has edition or translation (P747) on the same data item, and any translated work (Q125309905) will be both a translation of some work in another language and have editions that are published.

We need a new pair of properties specifically for works that are translated from other works. Again Oedipus the King (Q125309653) is an example. It has a VIAF ID and a LoC authority file ID, both of which identify the item as no specific publication, but rather a work that exists in multiple publications, yet is itself the translation of something else.

based on (P144) and derivative work (P4969) come close, but the latter is far too broad in scope. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

I have ran into related issues as well (stuff like Q110655971) and I think the main common culprit is that we are currently using a bastardised FRBR where Expression and Manifestation are conflated into one, which prevent us to describe things in Wikidata the way they are described elsewhere (like Q125309653 is clearly defined as an Expression in both VIAF and LC). I don't really know why it was decided to go with such a modelling, but if it was perhaps working back then I feel it may create more and more problems as we are adding more and more books and the relationships between them complexify. But now that we are so deep with this peculiar modelling I don't know if there is an easy way out. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 07:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Oxford Reference

Ciao Epi, adesso che c'è Oxford Reference overview ID (P12582), potresti aggiungerla a il catalogo MnM? Si sono quasi 45k IDs che possono essere sincronisati. Grazie! --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 07:44, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban:  Done e ho anche fatto partire un primo batch di sincronizzazione (https://quickstatements.toolforge.org/#/batch/227500). --Epìdosis 14:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Abante e Ascalabo

Ciao Epìdosis, ho trovatto Ascalabus (Q3603128) e Ascalabus (Q2655419). Si tratta del medesimo personnagio, trasformato in lucertola da Demeter. Ci sono due voci su WPIT, potresti unirle? Grazie ! (scusa per le numerose domande, mi sa che sto apenna comminciado con questo casino di mitologia...) --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 19:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jahl de Vautban: grazie per la segnalazione, mi paiono effettivamente la medesima persona. Ho ampliato it:Ascalabo e ho reindirizzato ad esso it:Abante (figlio di Celeo). --Epìdosis 19:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Merging Q349402 Adam Freytag 1608-1650 and Q102156858 Adam Freitag 1602-1664

1. Q349402 Adam Freytag 1608-1650 https://isni.org/isni/0000000079750576 https://d-nb.info/gnd/124754716
2. Q102156858 Adam Freitag 1602-1664 https://isni.org/isni/0000000365952347 https://d-nb.info/gnd/1089095554

Why did you merge these? Rostworowski (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@Rostworowski: They seem to be effectively the same person: the dates 1602-1664 are probably contained in some outdates source to which https://d-nb.info/gnd/1089095554 and https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb15418770s (copied, among other sources, by https://isni.org/isni/0000000365952347) referred; however, the publications mentioned by BNF and the biographical information coincide (as https://viaf.org/viaf/232782478/ shows) with the data that can be attributed to the person dated 1608-1650 by most sources like https://d-nb.info/gnd/124754716 and https://www.vle.lt/straipsnis/adam-freytag/ and https://web.archive.org/web/20220523211259/https://www.ipsb.nina.gov.pl/a/biografia/adam-freytag (Freitag/Freytag is just a graphical variant). --Epìdosis 20:46, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Can you post this report to ISNI so that they merge their records? Rostworowski (talk) 15:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@Rostworowski:  Done reported to ISNI now. Epìdosis 15:09, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Doppione

Ciao, io non sono pratico di Wikidata, ma ti segnalo questo doppione https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q95163403 e https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q16537964 , entrambi riferiti a https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anonima_Castelli Moxmarco (talk) 11:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Moxmarco: grazie per la segnalazione, @Agilix: li ha già uniti; per l'unione di elementi, cfr. Help:Merge dove si spiega l'uso (semplicissimo) del gadget Merge/Unisci, attivabile in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Per dubbi resto a disposizione! --Epìdosis 12:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Mix-n-Match for RISM

Hello! I recently came across your mix-n-match setup for RISM people, https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/catalog/3662. I noticed that the links for the resolution point to the old identifiers, however. Is there any way that this can be updated? (Recall this conversation: Property talk:P5504.)

Many thanks for everything you do! Ahankins (talk) 06:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Ahankins:, thanks for writing me! This catalog was created through a web scraper; I deactivated it because, as you say, it had the old identifiers (and it is not possible to change the format of the identifiers in an existing catalog). It would be necessary to create a new catalog with the new identifiers; the easiest way would be if you send to @Bargioni: via email (see email indicated here) an Excel file containing in the first column the IDs of the persons, in the second column the names of the persons, in the third column the most precise dates, in the fourth column the occupations. I put three examples below ("|" represents the change of column):

• 30006410 | Natale, Pompeo | 1681p+ | Clergyman, Composer, Maestro di cappella, Music teacher, Organist, Performer, Singer
• 30094068 | Monk, William Henry | 16.03.1823-18.03.1889 | Composer, Organist, Possessor
• 30075421 | Passy, Edmund | 1789-1870 | Composer, Music teacher, Organist, Pianist

He will then, in a few passages, transform this table in a Mix'n'match catalogue. Write me if you have any doubt! --Epìdosis 07:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

OK, done! Thank you. Ahankins (talk) 09:16, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

It occurs to me that it might also be beneficial to have any aliases or other names in the CSV? If so I can send a new one. Ahankins (talk) 09:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Ahankins: it could be, effectively; they can be included in the textual description of the entries, helping the user - when doing manual matches - to decide if a match is correct or not. Epìdosis 14:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Luca Luciano Trevisan

Hi Epìdosis, any idea who Luca Luciano Trevisan (Q125764723) is? --Kolja21 (talk) 22:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: seemingly an amateur art historian/critic and an art dealer, resident in Venice: in https://www.ledizioni.it/stag/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Alberto_martini_Web.pdf I read "Luca Luciano Trevisan, bizzarro personaggio difficilmente collocabile tra passione amatoriale studi e mercato" and "il veneziano Luca Luciano Trevisan, «Accademico Onorario R. [dell’]Accademia Internazionale del “Parnaso” e dell’Accademia “Phoenix”»"; in https://www.academia.edu/92176100/ I read "un certo Luca Luciano Trevisan, residente in “Santa Croce, Calle regina. Ramo calle Bragadin 2328 Venezia “ che nel 1951 fu autore di un testo enigmatico sul Giorgione in cui mescolava delle famose opere del Barbarelli con degli evidentissimi falsi di cui ne proponeva la vendita". --Epìdosis 11:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Unusual and interesting case. "Art dealer in Venice" is a more precise description than "author". Will you add the information to ICCU/SNB? I would like to created a GND. --Kolja21 (talk) 13:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: added now; it will be visible probably on Monday/Tuesday as usual. I have edited the fl. to 1950 since 1950 is the copyright date and 1951 the print date. Epìdosis 13:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Federica Nurchis (Q125771340): Italian art historian (1984-) seems to be a citable source. --Kolja21 (talk) 13:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Protection requests per vandalism

Hi @Epìdosis. I would like to inform you that several IPs are vandalizing several entries of Royals, changing deliberately the labels and descriptions in English and some other languages ([2], [3] and [4]), removing deliberately statements ([5], [6], [7] or [8]), and other major modifications like this.

I reverted them and notyfied some of them in their talk page ([9]) for not doing that editions again without obtaining consensus, they revert me and continue with their editions, removing also my warnings from their talks ([10]) by using other IPs. I suspect all are related to a previous case I found here. For that, please consider protect all this entries and restoring them to stable versions if the IPs change them again before the protection.

Thank you in advance. Yours sincerely. 81.41.177.91 23:48, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: The entries to protect are:

• Q14566660
• Q60721
• Q57666
• Q125753542
• Q7286312
• Q21013504
• Q236566
• Q263545
• Q76927
• Q620287
• Q60741
• Q162177
• Q21666846

Yours sincerely. 81.41.177.91 23:46, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting, I protected everything for 3 months (except Q125753542 for 1 week); as for the previous case, I would suggest to write in WD:AN to have a quicker response. Epìdosis 09:04, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

SBN catalogue - spaced ISNI

https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/entry/132917794 one example of many. The spaces cause error reports on the ISNI report page. It says you imported the catalogue. Can you take measures to remove the spaced ISNI from the whole catalogue?

There are 106514 unmatched entries, how many have an ISNI I don't know, but probably many new errors would be created if this isn't fixed. ISNIplus (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@ISNIplus: unfortunately I cannot: whilst I can add new auxiliary data, only @Magnus Manske: can remove auxiliary data from catalogs. Anyway, I think KrBot regularly removes the spaces through {{Autofix}}. Epìdosis 14:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

1000s of useless edits, bloating the database. Can you talk with Magnus about that?

Alternatively could all that have an ISNI be created? How many would that be? Then at least it is a one time issue, and there will be no error reports in the future. ISNIplus (talk) 14:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I had already reported it on 3 March in Topic:Xyr5b6zcavxhideq; I posted there again. Epìdosis 14:13, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Vandalo?

Ciao, ti segnalo questo utente MaxMorco. La sua modifica di per sé quasi irrilevante ma con campo oggetto decisamente fuori dalle righe. Il nome è abbastanza simile al mio, non vorrei fosse un clone Moxmarco (talk) 06:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@Moxmarco: grazie per la segnalazione, intanto ho annullato la modifica (concordo su quanto scrivi); se ci sono sviluppi avvisami. Epìdosis 09:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

ciao, l'utente è ritornato e ti confermo che ce l'ha con me. Stavolta su Commons https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Moxmarco Moxmarco (talk) 17:44, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

considerando la sua modifica su Wikidata, tutto sembra nato dal mio messaggio lasciato all'utente Vanni 58 su Wikipedia italiana Moxmarco (talk) 17:53, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@Moxmarco: vedo; su Commons però non sono amministratore; chiederei consiglio a uno steward @Sakretsu:. Buonanotte, Epìdosis 21:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Ciao, scusate il ritardo. Ho chiuso l'utenza in questione per abuso crosswiki. @Moxmarco per favore fammi sapere se questa storia continua Sakretsu (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject sum of all paintings

Ciao, ho notato che questa lista Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Creator/Giovanni Bellini risulta mal formattata (nella query) per quanto riguarda la data "incepetion" che restituisce 14º secolo anziché 15º e in certi casi un misterioso "140s".
Altra questione : non riesco a inserire l'etichetta it Madonna col Bambino su Q123479354 perché il sistema mi segnala che è già presente (ma non è visibile). Zanekost (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Aggiungo che probabilmente l'errore è esteso a tutte le liste di opere--Zanekost (talk) 18:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@Zanekost: 140s sembra un problema del template {{Wikidata list}} perché effettivamente dovrebbe mostrare 1450s anziché 140s che proprio non ha senso; puoi provare a segnalare nella talk del template. Per Madonna and Child (Madonna Corsini) (Q123479354): non lascia aggiungere etichetta in italiano Madonna col Bambino (in presenza della descrizione dipinto di Giovanni Bellini) perché la medesima coppia etichetta in italiano Madonna col Bambino e descrizione in italiano dipinto di Giovanni Bellini è già presente in Madonna and child (Q20077689). Modificando la descrizione di entrambi (es. aggiungendo la città in cui ciascuno dei due dipinti è conservato) sarà poi possibile aggiungere l'etichetta in italiano mancante. Buonanotte, Epìdosis 21:17, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok… comunicato nella talk. Dacci un'occhiata anche tu ché i mio inglese è un po' rustico.

Per le "Madonne" in questione quel che ho capito è che bisogna rendere in qualche modo unica la scheda, ma sorgono un po' di problemi:

• la Q123479354 non appartiene al castello di Wavel ma a una collezione privata non definita, al castello è stata invece esposta due volte;
• la Q20077689 viene prevalentemente rifiutata come opera di Bellini, l'unica pubblicazione italiana che la cita è Tempestini 2000 che la assegna invece a Bartolomeo Montagna.

Come si possono aggiungere le precisazioni necessarie? Zanekost (talk) 18:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Zanekost: ok per la talk del template, ho aggiunto un breve messaggio ulteriore; non avrei comunque troppa fiducia in una soluzione in tempi brevi del problema.

Per i due elementi specifici ho modificato entrambi secondo le tue indicazioni; mancherebbe soltanto aggiungere nel secondo le pubblicazioni che sostengono l'una e l'altra attribuzione (a Montagna e a Bellini). Epìdosis 19:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

OK. Grazie. Ho creato due nuovi elementi per i riferimanti: Q125918892 e Q125918804. Dacci un occhio per favore. Zanekost (talk) 19:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Zanekost: perfetti i riferimenti che hai aggiunto nel secondo elemento; ho sistemato un pochino gli elementi dei due libri di Tempestini. Buona serata, Epìdosis 19:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Perfetto, grazie. Zanekost (talk) 20:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Query

Ciao! Scusami se ti do noia per una stupidata personale ma mi pare che con le query te la cavi abbastanza bene :)
Facendo seguito a questa discussione al bar; data una query come questa, ma con molti più elementi wikidata, è possibile "scorporare" la lista degli elementi in una sottopagina utente, e fare in modo che la query la vada a pescare da lì? Syrio posso aiutare? 08:48, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Ciao @Syrio:, grazie per avermi scritto. La risposta è no, non mi risulta che sia possibile "scorporare" la lista degli elementi in una sottopagina utente, e fare in modo che la query la vada a pescare da lì. Quello che si può fare, invece, è riscrivere la query in modo che si possa, anziché elencare singoli elementi, trovare tutti gli elementi che rispondono a uno o più criteri. Se hai uno o più criteri degli insiemi d elementi, posso poi provare a tradurli in query. A presto, Epìdosis 13:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah, mannaggia. Non c'è un criterio, è la lista delle chiese che ho fotografato, solo che è talmente lunga che non funziona più neanche l'accorciamento dell'url XD Beh, pazienza, me la tengo scritta in un file di testo come ho fatto finora. Grazie comunque! --Syrio posso aiutare? 13:39, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Jean Moreau de Séchelles

Hi Epidosis! Thanks for your wellcome message. I have a question regarding Jean Moreau de Séchelles. I think his year of death is wrong. It was by an IP-adress in to the french wikipedia, the article was then into english. And form there the date was written in to wikidata. While different wikipedias and wikidata say Moreau de Séchelles died 1761, other wikipedias and all the litterature I found, say he died 1760. See: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k3558n/f202.image, https://journals.openedition.org/crcv/17907#ftn57, https://cths.fr/an/savant.php?id=117753, https://www.academie-sciences.fr/fr/Liste-des-membres-depuis-la-creation-de-l-Academie-des-sciences/les-membres-du-passe-dont-le-nom-commence-par-s.html, https://books.google.fi/books?id=BpNoAAAAcAAJ&hl=fi&pg=PA483#v=onepage&q&f=false How can I change the date of death in wikidata? Zumedi (talk) 13:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Zumedi:, thanks very much for your message. For all statements which have no source, or have only Wikipedia(s) as source(s), you can just edit them (i.e. change the value, if necessary) replacing the Wikipedia-source with one or more true sources, like the ones you cite. I did it on Jean Moreau de Séchelles (Q950360) (using only those which provided also the day of death and not only the year); I have also edited English Wikipedia, where 1761 had no source. If you have any further question or doubt, please of course ask me! Good evening, Epìdosis 19:58, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Qualificatori di Creatore

Ciao, secondo te qual’è l’uso corretto di creatore (P170) quando è presente un qualificatore del tipo di “bottega di”, “seguace di”, etc.

Vedi il caso di Q120035369 dove sicuramente il creatore non è Bellini ma non si accetta “anonimo”.

Tra l’altro manca tra i qualificatori possibili “ e aiuti” oppure “e bottega”, Zanekost (talk) 16:51, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@Zanekost: l'elemento di esempio di workshop of (P1774) è Tobias and the Angel (Q1635039); sulla base di quest'ultimo esempio ho modificato Madonna and Child (Q120035369). Sui qualificatori mancanti potrei avere un'idea di come supplire, se mi dai degli esempi per entrambi posso provare a proporre possibili soluzioni. Buona serata, Epìdosis 19:48, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Grazie. Allora basta non inserire nulla nel campo principale e qualificare con “quel che è” poi specificare “ruolo del soggetto” = “anonimo” ?

Però devo dire che non mi pare particolarmente intuibile che il ruolo sia riferito al creatore…

Quanto agli esempi di un creatore con l’aiuto della bottega te ne esemplifico solo tre riferiti al Giambellino di cui gli stessi musei asseriscono la collaborazione della bottega: Q3842590; Q64787463; Q19911550.

Quanto a mettere "e bottega" oppure "e aiuti" può lasciare una certa libertà in caso non sia conclamata la struttura di una bottega. Zanekost (talk) 21:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Giacomo Rocca

Hi Epìdosis, is Giacomo Rocca (Q3105084): Italian painter (1532-1605) identical with Giacomo Rocchetti (Q105855717): no description? --Kolja21 (talk) 00:13, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

@Kolja21: I cannot find decisive sources; many websites say "Giacomo Rocchetti (Rocca?)", so it seems the identification is not fully sure, although highly probable; I have added said to be the same as (P460) and I would keep them distinct, at least as of now. --Epìdosis 07:57, 26 May 2024 (UTC)