User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 2

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Project Numismatics


Thanks for all your help on my proposal about coins. I think a project would be welcome, however I have very little time at the moment, and little experience in creating projects. If you could set up a page I would be most grateful. I can then go on from there and propose new properties etc. whenever I find the time, if that's okay? Thanks again. /Jssfrk (talk) 08:37, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

T. rex

I removed this because of that. --Succu (talk)

Your latter link is to a property talk page, and does not justify the former edit. Please do not talk in riddles. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:25, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but this that was refering to that that. --Succu (talk) 20:04, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

about Köppen climate classification (P2564)

I don't know what Köppen climate classification (P2564) is supposed to be – initial said as 1-2-3 alphabetics. Now it has become a description rather than its code. Where should the code be found?

(Similar as (Philippines) income classification, which was set as value 1 to 6, and now set to a description. How can we actually get a similar number / Köppen code? (And Köppen-Geiger classification was not named correction.)

Mary McAllen (talk) 21:26, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

@Mary McAllen: See the discussion, and table, at Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/45#P2564. It seems that most of the the items are yet to be created (or, st least, yet to be added to that table). The table should be copied to, and completed on, the property's talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:00, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I think the people who changed codes to become description don't know what a database is about. Codd and Bachman etc. would be turning in their graves. (Bachman not dead yet.) No codes added, but plenty of descriptions. How do we add the codes? Same problem with income classification. Mary McAllen (talk) 11:58, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
@Mary McAllen: There are two ways to go about this, semantically I would prefer the second approach given the property in question directly references the Köppen climate classification and is not just "climate classification". On the other hand, the first approach is probably easier to handle and might be better maintainable.
  • Add these codes to the items, probably by making use of a property that still needs to be created. The descriptive labels would then still appear in case the items are used with Köppen climate classification (P2564), but other users could use the Köppen symbols.
  • Another way to go would be to create new items that exactly map to the Köppen climate classification and that don't have the Wikipedia links. Those could be linked to the current items by making use of said to be the same as (P460).
See also Talk:Q209531#English label. Please also refrain from saying that people here "don't know what a database is about", we do… the concept of labels is to be a human readable, they're not supposed to encode information in any classification system. Cheers, Hoo man (talk) 13:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
The second option would seem to meet everyone's needs. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits
Please see work currently ongoing at Property talk:P2564 and the discussion I started at WD:PC#Koppen climate classification about this topic as well. In most cases, I am creating new items, but some items have very convenient Wikipedia linkage. --Izno (talk) 15:52, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


type locality (geology) (P2695) is ready. --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Edit warring

You seem to be engaged in edit wars with User:Succu and user:Brya on Wikidata talk:Database reports/Constraint violations/P225 and other pages. Please stop this behavior. Because this isn't the first time and you used rollback ([1] [2]) in an edit war to revert legitimate edits, I've removed your rollback flag. Multichill (talk) 07:38, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

So you have, User:Multichill - and done so with no prior warning, no discussion, and apparently no consideration of the reasons for my actions.
The reason why rollback is not usually used for reverting supposedly "legitimate edits", is because it leaves no edit summary. That's clearly not applicable in a case like this, where the rolled-back edits are part of a series of reverts, needed because content is moved from one page to another. The preceding edits that those were paired with used regular reverts and edit summaries. Furthermore, these were quickly undoing edits that hid content created by Succa and Brya themselves from view.
Furthermore, you issued no similar warning to other editors involved in the dispute in question. Why not? When will you do so? You might also like to note that some of my reverts were undoing the removal, by Brya, of my comment from a talk page. I note that he has now removed it for a third time. Will you be warning Brya about that, and restoring my comment?
This is not the first time recently that you have been over-hasty with your use of admin tools in an issue involving me; there is an ongoing dispute at AN over your premature deletion of a property, with no consensus to do so. Having previously held you in high regard, and considered you a friend, after we had met and socialised more than once at various community events, I have been surprised that for some time now, every time you have interacted with me, here and off-wiki, it has exclusively been in a negative manner, including making unjustified and disparaging comments. I am at a loss to understand this change in your behaviour, and wish you would return to your previously amiable self, or at least desist and leave me in peace. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Only to remind you: You didn't objected in this case (removal of my rollback right) and you removed this comment by user:Brya as a PA. Just a communication breakdown? --Succu (talk) 22:00, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of the former; and I removed the latter for the reason I gave in my edit summary. If by "communication breakdown" you mean Brya removing my talk page comment, and then asking in his later edit summaries a question which was already answered by that comemnt, then yes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:08, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Dear Andy, as you can read on Wikidata:Rollbackers: Rollback should only be used to revert vandalism and test edits. No excuses.
You should have a good look in the mirror and not trying to put the blame with others. Why do you seem to get in all sorts of fights? Why are you a recurring subject in discussions like now on the admin noticeboard? Multichill (talk) 15:18, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Multichill: I asked you some questions above; you have - tellingly - neglected to answer them, despite my having taken the trouble to embolden them for your convenience. Please do so now. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:41, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
You're trying to order me around? No, I don't think so. Multichill (talk) 16:13, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Multichill: How odd. I politely ask you to answer a couple of very reasonable questions about your admin activity, and you instead falsely accuse me of "trying to order me around". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:27, 20 April 2016 (UTC)


Hi Pigsonthewing,

please don't import images (or anything) from Wikispecies before consulting Commons. The pictures there are very old and not necessarily the best.--Kopiersperre (talk) 19:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Bot request

I've now got the first set of WOEID data ready, and created a bot request: Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/The Anomebot 3. -- The Anome (talk) 21:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Place of marriage

place of marriage (P2842) is done. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

How unwise. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:37, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Out of school children

Hi Andy

Thanks for helping with the property for out of school children. I'm really quite stuck with setting up the qualifiers for the data. The data I'm trying to import is from the UNESCO Global Education Monitoring Report which is a collation of all the individual country statistics. I would like to add:

  • Out-of-school children of primary school age in pre-primary education
  • Out-of-school children of primary school age
  • Out-of-school adolescents of lower secondary school age

I have data for each country and each year e.g Out-of-school children of primary school age in pre-primary education in Uganda in 2013

Do you have an idea of how to string qualifiers together to make these statements work? I have sorted all the data into a table and it is ready to import apart from this bit.

Yours hopefully

John Cummings (talk) 09:28, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@John Cummings: Can you give me an example set of data (one table row?) to work with? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing:, this is the dataset we would like to import, does it make sense? Thanks for your help John Cummings (talk) 11:47, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: is that ok? I can try and explain in a different way if it helps. --John Cummings (talk) 09:56, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
@John Cummings: Sorry, missed your reply, your file is too large to open in Google Docs on my laptop! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:18, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: oh dear.... sorry, here are a few lines with the different kinds of data
Indicator Property for out of school children Country Country Q number Year Value
Out-of-school children of primary school age in pre-primary education, both sexes (number) P2573 Albania Q222 2009 4353
Out-of-school children of primary school age, both sexes (number) P2573 Ireland Q27 2012 2839
John Cummings (talk) 12:36, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


Right. You probably need to create items for, say:

  • "children of primary school age in pre-primary education"
  • "children of primary school age"
  • "adolescents of lower secondary school age"

or even:

  • "children of primary school age in pre-primary education in Albania"
  • "children of primary school age in Albania"
  • "adolescents of lower secondary school age in Albania"
  • "children of primary school age in Ireland"
  • ...etc

(in case you want to apply properties to them like upper and lower age limits, or counts)

Then you can use "applies to part". Other models may be available, and it may be worth proposing one on Project Chat to see what response you get. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:27, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

@John Cummings: Another option would be to have the while lot as a CSV file on Commons... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:28, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Thanks very much, very helpful. --John Cummings (talk) 13:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


You may have to unarchive the AN discussion about this deleted propety before your next comment, regardless of whether or not questions have been answered. About a week after the last activity it was manually archived. I reverted that and posted again, but despite Rschen commenting in the mean time it was archived again this morning. I have replied again in detail but I am not confident that it will remain without again being archived. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 08:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Person authority control

Might be of interest: Wikidata:List of properties/Person/Authority control --Bamyers99 (talk) 18:04, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


Hi Pigsonthewing, see discussion at User talk:Taketa#Regranting the Rollbackright to User:Pigsonthewing. Would you mind making a short 1 sentence statement that you promise not to use it in edit wars. Thank you very much, Taketa (talk) 07:20, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

bouncing edits

Hi I have tried to edit

but when I save after either removing internal duplications or wrong items

it counts the edit but doesnt stick simply reverts to previous state (which is wrong)

has someone put a brass knuckle on the internals of the article

or am i doing somehting wrong?


jarrah aka tom etc --  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by JarrahTree (talk • contribs) at 13:30, 23 July 2016‎ (UTC).

Look at the item's history - you've made a number of edits, and undone some. If your edit doesn't seem to "stick" reload the page. Also, bear in mind your additions may not be at the bottom of the page, so scroll up to look for them. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:00, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your response, I was just hoping it wasnt something I was doing wrong, but there was a mysterious bounce feel to the edit, as if it didnt want to accept even after having appeared to have registered approval of a claim or rejected.
Anne and I still have at least once a week birmingham jokes or asides. Louie now is, due to the cold snap we are having, the best dressed jack russell in belmont !!! (he has warmth jackets and rain jackets) cheers JarrahTree (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
The accepting and other internal edits seem to be not behaving badly any more - cheers JarrahTree (talk) 14:29, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

typo at AN

I think in this edit you actually mean an "uninvolved admin. Thryduulf (talk) 15:04, 23 July 2016 (UTC)


Hello! I see you used your bot to add IBDB ID on items, very probably harvesting them from the English Wikipedia. Please, can you not do that anymore? The English Wikipedia use the IBDB template everywhere, even when it's clearly not appropriate to add it on Wikidata. For example, they have it on articles about films who are based on Broadway plays, etc. etc. I spend weeks cleaning it up the first time, before creating the Mix n' Match, and now you added like an hundred of false ID all over again. I understand that enwiki want to keep their Broadway IB even on articles which aren't about Broadway shows, but on Wikidata it's just constraints violations. Can you add the IBDB on a list to not harvest? Thank you… --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 09:04, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Do you have any evidence of my adding the ID to articles that are "about films who are based on Broadway plays, etc. etc."? If so, how many? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:22, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Urgh, I didn't see you'd answered me here, I spent the evening and the night cleaning your edits. Just some examples I remember: Q5286034 (bad ID), Q1171405 (film), Q7750418 (novel), Q949879 (film), Q538042 (film), Q7750021 (film), Q5905426 (play adapted from the one with the IBDB ID), Q4848929 (bad ID), Q7440468 (film), Q4657625 (novel), Q7733529 (film) etc. I saw your edits when suddenly my "cleaning queries" went crazy with errors (I check regularly because I'm mix n' matching this database) and all these new errors were yours and seemed to come from enwiki. Then I went to see the contributions of your bot, and I checked every one of them. Actually it was better than I thought at first, because you only did like ~40 errors and you added ~400 correct links. Still, enwiki is really a source to be checked manually for the IBDB; because it still pretty tiring to clean up after the fact and not beforehand. Thank you. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 02:21, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
It's clear that none of the edits to which you refer was against the property constraints. I suggest you amend the constraints on Internet Broadway Database show ID (P1219) (or ask someone else to do so), so that it is deprecated for items of the types you mention. The tool I used, HarvestTemplates, will then not copy the ID across. As for "bad IDs", they should be fixed on Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:56, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I can't amend constraint to forbid to add an IBDB ID on a play when the ID really belong to another play. I don't know any constraint able to do that! I don't even know how to add a constraint "basically every type of work (play, musical, concert, pantomime, etc.) except film". That's the main error. And yes, I'm fixing the false ID on Wikipedia too. But I can't decide alone to change their policy from "let's link to the IBDB on all articles even remotely connected to the ID" to "let's only link to it when it's really about the same thing as our article". Everyone working on this database know not to harvest ID from enwiki, because of this policy. I don't know how to add constraint who could actually prevent your bot from doing manifest errors; I use SPARQL queries every other week to keep track of the violations, because the constraints aren't doing a good enough job. If you actually know how to amend Constraint:Type to block these edits, then I encourage you to fix it. If not, then just know that the IBDB shouldn't be harvested blindly, but to generate a list of probable matchings and then approve it manually. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 23:43, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
See [3]. As for your "ID really belong to another play" example, that may be fixed by creating an item for the other play, and adding the ID to that. The claim "Everyone working on this database know not to harvest ID from enwiki" is bogus. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:52, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:Property proposal/RERO ID


Thanks for your change. I gave an example from VIAF. Is it correct ? Thanks. Gtaf (talk) 19:11, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

@Gtaf: No. See Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science#LepIndex ID for an, er, example of an example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm lost in their site. So I cancel my request. Sorry. Gtaf (talk) 20:09, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
@Gtaf: That would be a pity. We just need an example with an item about a person, and their RERO ID. Can I help? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:29, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Oh yes, please. VIAF gives for w:es:Ángel Bañares Baudet the number : « RERO|vtls025664324 ». But on RERO's site, if this botanist and his books and papers are referenced, I can't find this number : vtls025664324. I hope you will be better than me ! Good luck ! Gtaf (talk) 21:20, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Bot edits 23 July for Hansard ID

Many additions for Hansard (1803–2005) ID (P2015) were to items for titles of nobility, not humans. See Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P2015. I have gone through and removed these additions, since they interfere directly with mix'n'match catalog 84.

The titles should all be excluded as instances of noble title (Q355567), though we are not yet there with tagging the items. In one instance, an identifier was added to an item for a baronetcy. In any case the identifier should not be on non-human items. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

ARLHS Lighthouse ID

Huh?? Why this??? There is even a {{Constraint:Multi value}} on Wikidata property example (P1855). Lymantria (talk) 20:42, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

The former, because one example is sufficient. The latter does not apply to the former. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
The Cape Mendocino Light example was needed as an example with a final letter. The other example perhaps was not needed, but you have to do better as to revert edits by others because of being "not necessary". Angry. Lymantria (talk) 21:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Multiple examples of property usage are in my experience often helpful and never hinder, removing them without discussion simply because you feel they are "not necessary" is not improving the project as far as I can tell. Thryduulf (talk) 23:22, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
I've put them back. Lymantria (talk) 05:57, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Then your experience is inadequate for you to judge. Adding superfluous examples is confusing to newbies, as I have seen when delivering training. No prior discussion is required, just as there was no discussion about adding such cruft in the first place. . Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Please - both of you - do not put words into my mouth; I have never used the phrase "not necessary" in this context. What next: examples anding in the letter a, the letter b, the letter c...? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps you can explain your "the latter does not apply to the former" better. It's a bit of oracle language to me. As far as I understand it, one should try to avoid constraint violations. And yes, one of the examples you removed was already in the proposal (you supported). The other, as said, shows an anomality in the codes, I had not even noticed when I proposed this one. It does not fit the original regex.
"What next: examples anding in the letter a, the letter b, the letter c...?" >> Are you really using fallacies??
Lymantria (talk) 13:33, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Andy, above you said "because one example is sufficient", and when reverting again today you included in your edit summary "remove superfluous examples". If you do not agree that "[the examples I removed are] not necessary" is a reasonable interpretation of the meaning of those words you will need to explain what you do mean as that is how both I and Lymantria understood them. Thryduulf (talk) 18:18, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


Hello, PASE name (P2744) is defined as a qualifier of PASE ID (P2625) and should not be added directly.--Melderick (talk) 20:07, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

It seems that its constraint to that effect is not observed by the 'Harvest Templates' tool. @Pasleim: Do you any thoughts? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:24, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
User:Matěj Suchánek added this constraint check 3 days ago. Probably slightly after you added the P2744 claims. But independent of the tool, I think users should always first read the property talk page to know the scope of a property before adding claims. --Pasleim (talk) 11:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
@Pasleim: Do you have a diff for that, please? The constraint seems to have been present since this 16 April version. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
I mean the constraint check was implemented to 'Harvest Templates' three days ago. --Pasleim (talk) 12:13, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Do we have a way to automatically move P2744 claims inside existing P2625 claims ? Some check must be done so that not to add the same PASE name twice (about 300 are already correctly set). --Melderick (talk) 15:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
I can do this. --Pasleim (talk) 15:40, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Let me know if some items need a review or a manual process.--Melderick (talk) 15:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
All remaining claims (query) need manual processing. --Pasleim (talk) 18:20, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Ok, all done. Thanks. --Melderick (talk) 14:04, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

SoundCloud ID

Hello Andy, I see that you removed an "overly strict" constraint on SoundCloud ID (P3040). What made you think it was overly strict? Was your intention to allow individual tracks/songs? Lymantria (talk) 12:11, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

A number of the items with this ID in their en.Wikipedia article do not match that pattern. I had not thought of using it for individual tracks or songs. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:26, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
It seemed to me that the enwiki article IDs that did not fit into were about individual songs/tracks, but also some of the possible items didn't have a P31. That can be quite annoying when you are dealing with harvest templates. Lymantria (talk) 17:34, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Indeed so. How would you suggest we proceed? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:56, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
To pass by Harvest Templates, you could completely temporarily (during the import) remove the Constraint:Type. If you put it back, you can use the Constraint violation reports to find items that need a P31 - and they can be added. On allowing songs and tracks (and albums?), I'm not sure about that. I think it would better fit into a seperate, or even two sperate (for tracks and albums) properties. Lymantria (talk) 07:04, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

OL ids

Saw you mention importing OL ids, thought I'd mention that I wrote a script to infer an author's OL id from the ISBNs of linked books. It netted a few thousand additional OL ids which have been imported. Thinkcontext (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

@Thinkcontext: Great work, thank you. Might you be able to apply your skills to CWGC cemetery IDs or Zerozero footballer Ids & others in refs, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:35, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: I'm pretty new to MediaWiki, so far I've only explored the Wikidata related functionality which, afaik, is very different than the Wikipedia functionality. So, I haven't figured out how to search and deal w/ templates in Wikitext. If you had any pointers to good docs I could take a look, I'm finding the pywikibot docs to be not the clearest. Can't HarvestTemplates do the CWGC task? Thinkcontext (talk) 21:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
First thing last: no, as it doesn't get values from templates in refs (they're often not on the article about the subject of the template). As for docs, I presume you mean about API/ data dumps? Beyond my pay grade, sadly. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Corrections for items with CWGC ID

I ran a query to generate a list of the items that use CWGC person ID (P1908). Only 22 so far (are there better ways to generate the lists when the numbers get larger?). I spotted three errors. Perth Cemetery (China Wall) (Q2218176) (incorrect, corrected), Francis Mond Professor of Aeronautical Engineering (Q5481944) (incorrect, corrected - more corrections needed as it is not a person), and Menin Gate (Q1822397) (incorrect, correction). Does that all look OK? How can those mistakes be prevented from happening again? Carcharoth (talk) 18:10, 24 August 2016 (UTC)


talent agent (Q1344174) is a profession, not a type of company. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 16:18, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

@Sjoerddebruin: Thanks for clarifying. So will you be applying talent agency (Q5354754) or suchlike? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:12, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
That seems the correct item. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 10:54, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Sjoerddebruin: Indeed. My question was "will you be applying talent agency (Q5354754) or suchlike" (as opposed to simply removing talent agent (Q1344174), which is what you were doing previously). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:45, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Of course, I think I already did that now. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 12:46, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Incrementally writing SPARQL queries

Hey !

I saw in Wikidata:Request a query that you would like to see more examples of stage-by-stage queries.

Funny thing is, I've just started a series of blog posts (in french, but the queries and comments are in english) with that specific intent !

First post in the series (which I dubbed "SPARQuickL" - I know, I'm terrible at naming things), a photo gallery of actors who played Hobbits in the Lord of the Rings film series by Peter Jackson.

Hope you'll like it despite the (moderate) language barrier !

Alphos (talk) 13:32, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

@Alphos: Thank you. I have written mine up as a step-by-step tutorial, at Help:SPARQL/Building a query/Museums on Instagram and added a link to yours, from Help:SPARQL/Building a query. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:10, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


Hello. Can you check again the Wikidata:Property proposal/at (renamed to "to"). Thanks. Xaris333 (talk) 11:17, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


Please check the whole discussion and the specific point where Thryduulf has mentioned you. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 15:22, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Petscan: I am clearly missing something

I cannot work out how to get Petscan to add data pairs, I am missing some basic concept it would seem, and the help instructions/examples don't help.

From petscan:psid=255917 I get my list of 55 entries which I wish to work upon, but I cannot fathom what is next. They exist so I am not given other choices. <confused> Thanks.  — billinghurst sDrewth 15:49, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

@billinghurst: Not something I use; suggest you try Project chat. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:06, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
FWIW I needed to force the WIKIDATA radio button on the "Other sources" page.  — billinghurst sDrewth 23:26, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

OpenCitations bibliographic resource ID

Hello Pigsonthewing, thank you for your work on filling out the metaproperties for Property:P3181. I changed back the label, however, since "OpenCitations resource ID" is unfortunately ambiguous. The OpenCitations Corpus includes multiple different datasets. This property is for bibliographic resources; there is also resource embodiments, bibliographic entries, responsible agents, agent roles, and identifiers. We may create properties for some of those in the future, at which point we would have multiple types of OpenCitations resource IDs, if that makes sense. Harej (talk) 20:55, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Harej: Fair enough; thanks for taking the time to explain. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for your feedback on my craft property proposal. I'm happy to re-use the vessel (P1876) property, but unclear as to how to propose or enact renaming that to 'craft'? Frankieroberto (talk) 20:44, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

@Frankieroberto: Changes made; let's see if they stick. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, I've started using the property on a few pages. --Frankieroberto (talk) 09:01, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:Property proposal/Gordon-Nummer

Hi Andy,

I'm on a GLAM editathon in Davos, Switzerland. Some people are writing articles about paintings of Ernst Ludwig Kirchner (Q229272) and others are working on the catalogue raisonné (Q1050259) (called 'Gordon' after the creator). For doing this it's necessary to have a property. Because the editathon is over on Monday it would be great, if you could the property quickly.

Greetings, --Kopiersperre (talk) 13:42, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Just as I was writing this I got a ping from you!

@Kopiersperre: There is a mandatory seven-day waiting period (I have suggested that there be exceptions, but there was no support). I suggest you add the values using catalog code (P528), qualified with a common value for catalog (P972). This may suffice, but if not, and the specific property is proposed, the values can be copied over quite easily. Have fun at the editathon! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:49, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Please break the rules (one last time). I'm working with newbies, and several pictures already have catalog numbers. I need the property for presenting the catalog to the museum officials. Davos is too far away for me, there is no second chance for this.--Kopiersperre (talk) 14:31, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
@Kopiersperre: You can try asking on Project chat; I doubt you'll be successful; and I have given you a working solution. If you use that, WD:RAQ will write you a query to present everything with the relevant catalogue ID. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:08, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

NYT Topic Id import

I wrote a quick script to populate this property from the NYT Semantic API where they provide a cross reference to Wikipedia and there is a link to the topic page. We got about 2500, I had hoped for more but it looks like their maintenance of both is somewhat lacking. Thinkcontext (talk) 16:40, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

@Thinkcontext: Thank you for doing that, and for letting me know. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:57, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
@Thinkcontext: Would this also work for P2690 (P2690), P2691 (P2691), P2692 (P2692), and P2693 (P2693)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:02, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing:Yes it would, indeed it would certainly yield a larger number. However, it turns out there are additional undocumented categories used by the NYTimes API and these were introduced for existing items which broke backwards compatibility. This made me leery about putting work into inserting that info.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thinkcontext (talk • contribs) at 17:56, 3 October 2016‎ (UTC).
@Thinkcontext: Do you mean categories other than Person/ Organization/ Location/ Descriptor? Sheeseh... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:24, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Yes, there are 3 additional categories, see Thinkcontext (talk) 20:34, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Thinkcontext: So we need to do one of:

  • make extra properties for the new types
  • merge the properties and change the formatter URL to (presumably)$1.json?fields=all&api-key=your-API-key
  • delete them as proposed

What are your thoughts? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:47, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Being able to have a key for the NYTimes api would be nice, however, I'm not sure how much additional value it provides over the topic id. Thinkcontext (talk) 13:17, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Guardian ids via Musicbrainz

The Guardian API links their tags to Musicbrainz ids, I wrote a script to import these to Wikidata items that have an MBid. The script is running, it'll take a long time but it should result in thousands of matches. Seemed like a good way to populate the Guardian property even if it is only musicians.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thinkcontext (talk • contribs) at 18:00, 4 October 2016‎ (UTC).

@Thinkcontext: Great! Thanks. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:20, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Pigsonthewing-bot and substance classes

Hi Andy,

in the cases when the English article was about a class of substances (e.g. dinitroaniline (Q1226496) and dinitrobenzene (Q905814)) your bot has falsely extracted a single PubChem. May you please try to find the cases where this happened and fix it?--Kopiersperre (talk) 17:36, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

The values were imported from en.Wikipedia. I have no knowledge of which item from each of the mere 14 pairs listed on the constraint report have primacy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:40, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Have you done text mininig? Because in Dinitroaniline the PubChem is not in the infobox, but in a table.--Kopiersperre (talk) 17:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
No. I probably used en:Template:PubChem, but after this much time, I can't say for sure. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:32, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Q4425493 Andrey Aleksandrovitsj Snezjko

I deleted the Youtube channel because the user does not exist, the website because its a 404. I attempted to find replacements and could not do so. Thinkcontext (talk) 13:57, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@Thinkcontext: which is why it was marked with "end date - unknown". Please do not remove valid data, just because it has ceased to apply. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:43, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

NameGuzzler and transcriptions

Hi Pigsonthewing,

please don't use nameGuzzler on people with cyrillic names (e.g. Andrey Snezhko (Q4425493)). Every language uses it's own transliteration system (try this tool). Snezhko can become Sneschko, Snezjko or Snežko. One name doesn't fit all languages. Same goes for arabic (or persian). Probably I should write a bot to fix this globally.--Kopiersperre (talk) 21:41, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Please don't do it. Elnaz Golrokh (Q27276042) also goes in this category.--Kopiersperre (talk) 12:55, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Her name is not cryilic. [4] finds German websites use the spelling I used, only. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:08, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if German media is too dumb to transliterate from arabic script. The English forms dominate worldwide. Most media also did it wrong for Jaber Albakr (Q27184169) (the current IS terrorist in Germany).--Kopiersperre (talk) 14:37, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Please understand, that I feel like tilting at windmills when I (and mainly others, like @Man77:) work for years on correctly transliterated arabic and cyrillic names in German Wikipedia and then comes nameGuzzler and kills all these efforts.--Kopiersperre (talk) 14:40, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
I think I have an opinion, but I don't know what exactly you are talking about. → «« Man77 »» 14:49, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Question about finding all times a template has data about magic numbers?

Hi Andy,

I noticed that you have expertise with property proposals on Wikidata as well as the use of templates. I am currently drafting a property proposal about magic numbers for file formats.

Template:Infobox file format (Q10986167) has an attribute for magic numbers. Could you please tell me how to figure out how many times this attribute has been used?

Thank you! YULdigitalpreservation (talk) 17:33, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@YULdigitalpreservation: Two methods; neither easy. One is to put a tracking category in the infobox, and count the number of pages in that category after, say, a week. You'd have to do that separately, on each Wikipedia. The other would be to persuade someone with access to database dumps to scan them for you. That would also need to be done once per Wikipedia, and would be time consuming, so I think the chances of anyone volunteering are slim. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:38, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the information! I appreciate your response. YULdigitalpreservation (talk) 17:47, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:WikiProject Biographical Identifiers/template

Hi Andy,

Thanks for having a shot at expanding this - very helpful! I've moved the 'internal' links down into the tools section using the RfD links template, and it's looking quite nicely compact now. One thing I'd like to do - but have no idea how to - is bring out some of the metadata from the property page itself; the mix-and-match identifier if known would be a great thing to automate, and possibly also the "expected completeness" property. Any ideas on how to do this? Andrew Gray (talk) 22:10, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray: Just signing off; I'll take a look tomorrow. We need to include a talk page link, I think. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:14, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:Property proposal/Verkhovna Rada MP id

Hi! You marked property proposal Wikidata:Property proposal/Verkhovna Rada MP id as "ready" but did not create the property. Please create it. --Tohaomg (talk) 22:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Property:P1629 on Property:P1895

I do not understand your explaination of your revert.

why can't

Look at Wikidata:WikiProject_Taxonomy#Databases, the column "Description". 2 properties are wrong (not starting with "<DatabaseName> : " ):

Regards Liné1 (talk) 22:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

The other examples you give are wrong too. Note the phrase "corresponding exactly" (emphasis added) in the property description. See ORCID iD (P496) for a good example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:47, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
ORCID iD (P496) is not biology.
In Wikidata:WikiProject_Taxonomy#Databases, 100% of the properties have Wikidata item of this property (P1629) (if you except the one you reverted).
You can see that Wikidata:WikiProject_Taxonomy#Databases uses {{List of properties/Row}} that has an improved treatment when Wikidata item of this property (P1629) is present.
The same way Wikidata:WikiProject_Books uses {{List of properties/Row}} that shows that Wikidata item of this property (P1629) is present on 90% of the properties.
Regards Liné1 (talk) 21:33, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
While P496 can indeed apply to biologists, the field of work is immaterial. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:41, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
And my 3 other arguments ?
Can you give me any proof, that all the properties I showed you are incorrect ? That {{List of properties/Row}} treatment of Wikidata item of this property (P1629) is buggy ?
Regards Liné1 (talk) 21:49, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
I have already given you such proof (and the phrase "corresponding exactly" is not only in the property's description, but was in its original proposal). You have no proof that the property is intended to be used in the manner you advocate. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:05, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Fine, in that case, why don't you remove Wikidata item of this property (P1629) from all properties listed in Wikidata:WikiProject_Taxonomy#Databases ? Then request a change of {{List of properties/Row}}.
Your current revert is not a good contribution. It breaks the homegeousness of the biology properties.
I am writing a biology template on wikicommons that displays all the database links of a taxon. For that I need to know the database involved by a property. Until now it was Wikidata item of this property (P1629). Now it not possible anymore.
Regards Liné1 (talk) 06:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Mind to give an answer? --Succu (talk) 23:23, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm always happy to answer apparently genuine and sincere questions; as I did above. It's a pity that Liné1 has now chosen to dishonestly claim that my reason for removing the inappariate value is "unknown". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:03, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, I needed to read it three or four times before I saw what you meant, so it was not a very clear answer. Very inhospitable. Your line of reasoning is that the property ORCID iD should be linked by P1629 to the item ORCID ID not to the item ORCID, and that because that is the way it is done for ORCID, it must also be done that way for other ID properties. Sounds very bureaucratic. - Brya (talk) 14:00, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
No, that is not my line of reasoning. Kindly do not attempt to speak for me. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:02, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
OK, so your line of reasoning is even more obscure. How about enlightening us? - Brya (talk) 14:04, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, Andy, can you please explain us? I had made the same assumption as Brya did. Perhaps you can be more wordful. Lymantria (talk) 09:09, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
@Lymantria: I gave a full and clear explanation, above in this very section. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:14, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm, your clear explanation has led to a couple of misconceptions - as they appear to be from your comment. I had expected a more extensive answer, including how Liné's problem could become solved. Clearly in your opinion Fauna Europaea ID (P1895) does not have Fauna Europaea (Q2745977) as Wikidata item of this property (P1629). You point to ORCID iD (P496) as a good example. That example led Brya and myself, and perhaps more people, to the idea that in stead of Fauna Europaea (Q2745977) there should be a seperate item on Fauna Europaea identification codes. In your reaction to that suggestion by Brya, you seem to deny that. OK, Brya did not talk about Fauna Europaea. So you did not exactly deny things about Fauna Europaea, but please, can you be more clear. If two people here don't understand you, your stubborn answer that you have been clear above is not helpful. Lymantria (talk) 10:27, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
You're entitled to believe that those "misconceptions" were genuine. Based on past exchanges, I'm not required to. Liné's problem could become solved in the manner used by the example I gave; something both you and Brya seem to understand, even if he misrepresented an example as "reasoning". As to "you seem to deny that", I denied nothing of the kind. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
So what did you mean then by "No, that is not my line of reasoning"??? Did you mean to pun on a nonnative speaker of your language, that indeed you did not give reasoning at all, just an example??? Lymantria (talk) 16:57, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
I meant that "it" ("the property ORCID iD should be linked by P1629 to the item ORCID ID not to the item ORCID, and that because that is the way it is done for ORCID, it must also be done that way for other ID properties") is not my line of reasoning. As I also said, that was an example. No puns were involved; my reasoning was given - and remains visible - above. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:25, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
What distinguishes the special use of Wikidata item of this property (P1629) at Fauna Europaea ID (P1895) from nearly 1000 usages of Wikidata item of this property (P1629) for external ids? --Succu (talk) 11:33, 27 December 2016 (UTC)



  • wd:P212 ISBN-13 wd:Q33057 International Standard Book Number
  • wd:P213 ISNI wd:Q423048 International Standard Name Identifier
  • wd:P214 VIAF ID wd:Q19832964 VIAF identifier
  • wd:P221 ISO 639-6 code wd:Q19841687 ISO 639-6 code
  • wd:P231 CAS Registry Number wd:Q102507 CAS Registry Number
  • wd:P232 EC no. wd:Q201132 European Commission number
  • wd:P234 InChI wd:Q203250 International Chemical Identifier
  • wd:P235 InChIKey wd:Q21445422 InChIKey
  • wd:P236 ISSN wd:Q131276 International Standard Serial Number

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:12, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

If there is no difference the why did you removed this special claim multiple times und left the others (e.g. Open Library ID (P648)) in place? --Succu (talk) 15:08, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Because I am not singularly responsible for the upkeep of the entire Wikidata database. Feel free to do so yourself, though. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
If I interpret your above example reference to ORCID (and this uncommented list) right then according to you for an external id Wikidata item of this property (P1629) has to point to a wikidata item representing this id itself? --Succu (talk) 19:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Kindly let me know what I Have to do in the below link and what is the cause of its creation yours sincerely, --Maaley (talk) 00:31, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Facebook ID - Removed claim: instance of (P31): Wikidata property representing a unique identifier (Q19847637))

Hi! You removed this claim, not sure how it is different than the following items that have that claim:

--  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hampsterx (talk • contribs) at 17:58, 18 December 2016‎ (UTC).

@Hampsterx: Facebook ID (P2013) has both Wikidata property for authority control for people (Q19595382) and Wikidata property to identify organizations (Q21745557). Twitter username (P2002) does not (and MusicBrainz artist ID (Q19832969) is not a property). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:33, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi Andy, sorry still a bit confused (I am kinda new around here~).. (Twitter username)

Instance of:

  • Q18608871 (Wikidata property for items about people)
  • Q18608993 (Wikidata property for items about organizations)
  • Q19847637 (Wikidata property representing a unique identifier)

How is twitter username (P2002) an instance of Q19847637 (unique identifier) but facebook (P2013) should not be?

Because the latter has both Wikidata property for authority control for people (Q19595382) and Wikidata property to identify organizations (Q21745557); and both of those are subclass of (P279) Wikidata property for an identifier (Q19847637). BTW, if you edit this comment, you can see how I've formatted the links to the properties and items I mentioned. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:01, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
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